Raid early warning

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Raid early warning

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Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 8:37:15 AM

RichardAckermann

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I consider to place some radar LCUs in hexes on path of incoming air raids to detect them more early.
Does the game consider LCUs and TFs in other hexes for raid detection anyway, or will this effort remain fruitless?

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 8:59:07 AM

LargeSlowTarget

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I'm pretty sure the air strike mechanics are "point to point" from start to target hex and that there is no detection of raids in hexes along the flight path.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/13/2018 10:59:15 AM >

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 9:05:27 AM

RichardAckermann

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Too bad. That would come in handy. One more thing for the wishlist.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 11:23:45 AM

Dili

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Yes no flight path unfortunately, also radar don't detect outside their hex even if they have more range, nevertheless there should be a check somewhere in the game to make patrol aircraft being intercepted by fighters.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 11:46:50 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes no flight path unfortunately, also radar don't detect outside their hex even if they have more range, nevertheless there should be a check somewhere in the game to make patrol aircraft being intercepted by fighters.

There is, but again, it only happens in the base hex the fighters are flying CAP over, even if the CAP is not restricted below the normal three hex range.

I get messages constantly that naval search aircraft are being shot down by CAP.

It just never happens in an approach hex, only in the target hex.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 12:07:41 PM

RichardAckermann

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A real shame. I do not understand why this was not done. It is not too complicated to check if and where a circle collides with a vector. There are even easier, less accurate calculations using trigonometric stuff.
That would also open the door to raid interception by CAP found enroute to target.

Btw. Are recon craft also shot by CAP in AE? I do not remember to have ever read that.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 12:20:52 PM

btd64

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Definitely sounds like something to add in your game....GP

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 1:34:07 PM

tarkalak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

A real shame. I do not understand why this was not done. It is not too complicated to check if and where a circle collides with a vector. There are even easier, less accurate calculations using trigonometric stuff.
That would also open the door to raid interception by CAP found enroute to target.

Btw. Are recon craft also shot by CAP in AE? I do not remember to have ever read that.

In real life planes on a raid will try to avoid known radars and enemy bases. So it is not that simple.

Obviously you cannot avoid your target.

Also I have a vague memory that planes will usually cruise on low altitude using mountains as cover from radar.
And then climb just before their objective.

I think I heard it from the show Dogfights, but I am not sure.

Try using slower planes as recon. I think they get shot more often.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 1:52:38 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

A real shame. I do not understand why this was not done. It is not too complicated to check if and where a circle collides with a vector. There are even easier, less accurate calculations using trigonometric stuff.
That would also open the door to raid interception by CAP found enroute to target.

Btw. Are recon craft also shot by CAP in AE? I do not remember to have ever read that.

Recon and search are treated differently by the game engine with naval search happening in the beginning of each air phase before targeted missions.
Flash messages are provided for interactions that occur during search such as aerial attacks on submarines and shooting down of naval search aircraft by CAP.

Recon, being a targeted mission does not provide flash messages and there is no combat report for recon missions.
Perhaps buried in one of the text reports that can't be accessed in game are the reports of recon aircraft being shot down by CAP, but I have never dug to look for it.

Also, most players probably keep recon flights in the stratosphere (2oK is the default game setting for recon air squadrons) where CAP interception may be rare.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 2:06:06 PM

RichardAckermann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
Definitely sounds like something to add in your game....GP

Already done.
Just still playing AE for it has much better playability and far more advanced combat calculations. My CAP are not as good as I'd like them to be. So I had hoped for a little boost in warning and scrambling.

@tarkalak
In RL, it was not as easy to avoid detection. The chinese had a very good network to report japanese strikes. Plus just ask the allied if it was easy to avoid detection when bombing german industry. It was a hell of a ride to even make it into the reich, with constant CAP attacks.
The germans had similar trouble with the UK radar station network along the english coast.

HansBolter, thanks for the info on recon missions.

< Message edited by RichardAckermann -- 3/13/2018 2:13:08 PM >

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 2:18:12 PM

tarkalak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

@tarkalak
In RL, it was not as easy to avoid detection. The chinese had a very good network to report japanese strikes. Plus just ask the allied if it was easy to avoid detection when bombing german industry. It was a hell of a ride to even make it into the reich, with constant CAP attacks.
The germans had similar trouble with the UK radar station network along the english coast.

I agree.

My point was that it is not that simple to simulate radar detection in this game.

In Europe both Germany and UK had dense radar networks. The Pacific is a different beast. You cannot have continues coverage in the ocean and over sparse island chains.

I guess that is why the developers have left it as it is.

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I do not know what is scarier: that I do understand nothing of this demonic script or that I am starting to see the demons that it evokes.

Me, studying for a PHD entry exam in Applied Mathematics.

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 2:40:07 PM

RichardAckermann

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Agreed, it would be possible to avoid islands and other isolated sites in the pacific.
Actually more difficult to simulate bypassing detection sites than calculating detection.

I wonder if and how the airstrikes in the pacific area were routed around know detection sites.
Are there any sites on where info could be found on this topic?

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/13/2018 7:15:19 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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Japanese radar and interceptors on Iwo Jima forced the B-29s based in the Marianas to fly dog-leg detours around that island on their way to and from the Home Island. This increased range to targets and thus decreased payloads because more fuel was needed, it increased operational hazards like crew fatigue, navigation errors, weather etc. All this was a major factor for the decision to invade Iwo Jima.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/13/2018 7:17:01 PM >

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RE: Raid early warning - 3/14/2018 9:30:31 AM

RichardAckermann

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Interesting. I was always told Iwo Jima was captured to have a base for fighter escorts within range of the HI. I will try to learn more about this, thanks.

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