Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sail into Rangoon

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sail into Rangoon

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Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sail i... - 8/18/2010 10:51:27 AM

Chryse

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

Tiltle says it all. I cannot send a transport of any great size into Rangoon and I certainly cannot send Allied BB's there as well so how do the Japaneses attack ships at sea at Rangoon with BB's?

Day Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 54,53, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima
BB Mutsu
CL Kitakami
DD Hayashio
DD Asagumo
DD Mochizuki
DD Asagao

Allied Ships
HDML 1100, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
HDML 1101, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 6,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 6,000 yards
Kogure, Gunji* crosses the 'T'
HDML 1101 sunk by BB Mutsu at 6,000 yards
HDML 1100 sunk by BB Mutsu at 6,000 yards
Combat ends with last Allied ship sunk...

The message I always get when trying to sail anything sizeable to Rangoon is "task Foce contains ships too large to sail up river"

< Message edited by Chryse -- 8/18/2010 10:54:01 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 12:36:56 PM

xj900uk

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline

Perhaps Japanese BB's are smaller or have shallower drafts than ALlied BB's?

(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 2

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 12:56:51 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

Perhaps Japanese BB's are smaller or have shallower drafts than ALlied BB's?

he can�t even run bigger transports there, which Japanese BB is smaller than an Allied transport?

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(in reply to xj900uk)

Post #: 3

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:26:52 PM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

6,000 yards is 3 nautical miles.That doesn't sound like it's in the harbor to me. Sounds like the BB was just outside shooting in.

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(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 4

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:30:16 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Yep, it says "Near Rangoon" - look at the hex nr and I'm sure its outside the harbour.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 5

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:45:19 PM

Chryse

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: xj900uk

Perhaps Japanese BB's are smaller or have shallower drafts than ALlied BB's?

he can�t even run bigger transports there, which Japanese BB is smaller than an Allied transport?

Exactly. I do not have any of the larger xAP's in the area currently to give an example but more than once I have had to unload and reload on smaller ships troops headed to Rangoon. I have the CV Indomitable nearby now at 22,600 tons it states it is too large to go up river to Rangoon. That is a relatively small carrier - only has a compliment of 45 planes. Surely a Japanese BB exceeds that.

If it is a matter of draft that would be good to know but since I do not see anywhere where is draft is noted it is difficult to tell. Can any of you who are playing the japanese side tell me if you can sail your BB's into Rangoon or is this just a perk granted AI contolled Jap BB's? Have had the Jap BB's sail in there twice now and attack and frankly it is something I had not thought possible. At least they could have had the decency to hit a mine.

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 6

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:48:02 PM

Chryse

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Yep, it says "Near Rangoon" - look at the hex nr and I'm sure its outside the harbour.

Yes it says near Rangoon which is proper notation for ships at sea at a base hex. If you check the hex coordinate shown that is the coordinate for the Rangoon hex.

I cannot sail to that hex with large ships. How can the Japanese?

< Message edited by Chryse -- 8/18/2010 1:49:40 PM >

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 7

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:51:03 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

Yep. I was sure hex 54,53 would be the coastal hex, but it's the hex of Rangoon, 1 hex upriver from the coast. Seems to be a bug to me. Chryse, you may want to post about this in the Tech Support forum to see if it's a bug that needs to be addressed or not.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 8

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 1:58:38 PM

Don Bowen

Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Really not enough information yet. Are you playing against the AI? That sucker cheats. Was Rangoon captured in the turn?

Best thing is to post the save BEFORE that surface combat. Post it in the Tech support thread and someone can check it out. All anyone can do now is guess.

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 9

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 4:53:05 PM

Chryse

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Really not enough information yet. Are you playing against the AI? That sucker cheats. Was Rangoon captured in the turn?

Best thing is to post the save BEFORE that surface combat. Post it in the Tech support thread and someone can check it out. All anyone can do now is guess.

Rangoon not taken. Not even attacked. Just Jap BB's camping in the Rangoon hex. Yes it was against AI.

Figured it was odd.

Interesting result though due to the incident. Had moved the Indomitable/Hermes TF task force to hex 53,50 NW of Rangoon hoping to get a small strike against the camping BB's. They rushed out to intercept Indomitable but unfortuantely for them I had another TF with 3 BB's just SW of the Indomitable and they ran into them instead. A bad day for Japan.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Bassein at 52,52, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Asagumo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Asagao, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Shell hits 1
BB Royal Sovereign
BB Ramillies, Shell hits 8, on fire
CA Dorsetshire
CA Exeter
CL Enterprise
CL Emerald
CL Dauntless
CL Ceres, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Caledon
CL Capetown
DD Tjerk Hiddes, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hotspur
DD Napier
DD Nizam, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Norman

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 7,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 7,000 yards
BB Ramillies fires at BB Mutsu at 7,000 yards
BB Ramillies fires at BB Kirishima at 7,000 yards
BB Ramillies fires at CL Kitakami at 7,000 yards
CA Exeter launches Torpedoes at BB Mutsu at 7,000 yards
DD Nizam launches Torpedoes at BB Mutsu at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
BB Mutsu sunk by BB Ramillies at 3,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages BB Ramillies at 3,000 yards
CL Kitakami sunk by BB Ramillies at 3,000 yards
DD Nizam engages DD Mochizuki at 3,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages DD Nizam at 3,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Norman at 3,000 yards
DD Nizam sunk by DD Asagumo at 3,000 yards
Kogure, Gunji* orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 5,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages BB Ramillies at 5,000 yards
DD Asagao engages BB Ramillies at 5,000 yards
BB Revenge engages DD Mochizuki at 5,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Exeter at 5,000 yards
DD Hayashio sunk by BB Ramillies at 5,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CL Caledon at 5,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CL Ceres at 5,000 yards
DD Asagao engages DD Hotspur at 5,000 yards
DD Tjerk Hiddes engages DD Asagao at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages BB Ramillies at 6,000 yards
BB Royal Sovereign engages BB Kirishima at 6,000 yards
BB Ramillies engages DD Mochizuki at 6,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Exeter at 6,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CL Ceres at 6,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Norman at 6,000 yards
DD Napier engages DD Asagumo at 6,000 yards
DD Asagumo engages DD Hotspur at 6,000 yards
DD Asagao engages DD Tjerk Hiddes at 6,000 yards
Kogure, Gunji* orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 9,000 yards
BB Royal Sovereign engages DD Mochizuki at 9,000 yards
BB Revenge engages DD Asagao at 9,000 yards
CL Capetown engages DD Asagumo at 9,000 yards
CL Emerald engages DD Asagumo at 9,000 yards
DD Tjerk Hiddes engages DD Asagumo at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
BB Ramillies engages DD Asagumo at 12,000 yards
BB Royal Sovereign engages DD Mochizuki at 12,000 yards
BB Revenge engages DD Asagumo at 12,000 yards
CL Ceres engages DD Asagumo at 12,000 yards
DD Norman engages DD Asagumo at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 14,000 yards
DD Norman engages DD Asagao at 14,000 yards
DD Asagumo sunk by BB Royal Sovereign at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
DD Tjerk Hiddes engages DD Asagao at 17,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Norman at 17,000 yards
DD Hotspur engages DD Mochizuki at 17,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Tjerk Hiddes at 17,000 yards
Task forces break off...

The Indomitable TF finished off the two surviving DD's the same turn.

BB Ramilles banged up but not too bad 21sys, 27 flot damage. CL Ceres 51 flot damage. I should be able to get them back to safety.

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 10

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/18/2010 5:44:29 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Well, a quick look at the "amazing" google earth and using the handy measuring tool provided, shows that the docks of Rangoon are about 45 to 50 miles from water deep enough for safe navagation of a large ship. The Yangon River is flat, wide and full of sediment. I could see no channel and doubt that a river like that would could keep a permanent deep water dredged channel for any lenght of time. Obviously your two ML had ventured out to deep waters to intercept any raiding BBs and got caught with their pants down.

As an aside, my subs have been laying mines in the channel and it is now obvious to me that would not have been possible as well.

The game has lots of abstracts that we have to live with. This is just one of many.

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(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 11

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/19/2010 4:40:20 AM

Chryse

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, a quick look at the "amazing" google earth and using the handy measuring tool provided, shows that the docks of Rangoon are about 45 to 50 miles from water deep enough for safe navagation of a large ship. The Yangon River is flat, wide and full of sediment. I could see no channel and doubt that a river like that would could keep a permanent deep water dredged channel for any lenght of time. Obviously your two ML had ventured out to deep waters to intercept any raiding BBs and got caught with their pants down. As an aside, my subs have been laying mines in the channel and it is now obvious to me that would not have been possible as well.

The game has lots of abstracts that we have to live with. This is just one of many.

I am perfectly fine with abstracts also as long as they apply to both sides. This is not the case here. My guess is that this is an AI issue only but can only guess since I have not yet played the Japaneses side.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 12

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 8/19/2010 5:25:06 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

quote:

My guess is that this is an AI issue only but can only guess since I have not yet played the Japaneses side.

As Japan in PBEM, I cannot sail Kirishima to Rangoon. patched current (not that I think that's a factor)

(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 13

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 1/31/2011 10:50:09 AM

Cornstar

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline

I had the exact same thing happening, with worse results :-), against AI as well. I'll post it in the bug forum, this doesn't seem right.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 54,53, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Haguro
CL Natori
DD Uzuki
DD Minazuki
DD Mikazuki
DD Karukaya

Allied Ships
DD Decoy, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
DD Fortune, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Steel Maker, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Dunera, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Dilwara, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
xAP Khandalla, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
xAK Bandra
xAK Catrine, Shell hits 4, on fire
xAK Erinpura, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
xAK Hunan, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
xAK Ikauna, Shell hits 1
xAK Loch Ranza, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
xAK Nirpura, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
xAK Surada
xAK Varsova, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Barjora, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
xAK Benrinnes
xAK Empire Glen, Shell hits 16, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Esperance, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAK Ettrickbank, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Historian, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Itaura, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Lavington Court, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Scottish Chief, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Uffington Court, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
xAK Jalakrishna, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Jalapalaka, Shell hits 8, heavy fires
xAK Shinkuang, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAK Anatina, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Dagfred, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Ima, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
xAK Slemmestad, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 6,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 6,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 6,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages DD Fortune at 6,000 yards
DD Fortune engages CA Haguro at 6,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAP Dilwara at 6,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAP Dunera at 6,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages DD Fortune at 6,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Ima at 6,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Nirpura at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
xAK Uffington Court collides with xAK Historian at 54 , 53
DD Fortune sunk by BB Hyuga at 3,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAP Dilwara at 3,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAP Dunera at 3,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Ima at 3,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Jalakrishna at 3,000 yards
xAK Itaura sunk by CA Haguro at 3,000 yards
xAK Nirpura sunk by BB Mutsu at 3,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Catrine at 3,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages DD Decoy at 3,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Lavington Court at 3,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAP Dilwara at 3,000 yards
xAP Dunera sunk by DD Uzuki at 3,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages DD Decoy at 3,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Ima at 3,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Dagfred at 3,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Jalakrishna at 3,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Barjora at 3,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Catrine at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages DD Decoy at 2,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAP Khandalla at 2,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Decoy at 2,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Slemmestad at 2,000 yards
xAK Ima sunk by BB Hyuga at 2,000 yards
DD Decoy engages DD Mikazuki at 2,000 yards
xAK Anatina sunk by BB Mutsu at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Decoy at 2,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Hunan at 2,000 yards
DD Decoy sunk by BB Hyuga at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAP Dilwara at 2,000 yards
xAK Slemmestad sunk by BB Mutsu at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAP Khandalla at 4,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAP Dilwara at 4,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Dagfred at 4,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Shinkuang at 4,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Jalapalaka at 4,000 yards
xAK Jalakrishna sunk by DD Mikazuki at 4,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAP Dilwara at 4,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Varsova at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
xAP Khandalla sunk by BB Hyuga at 7,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAP Dilwara at 7,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAP Dilwara at 7,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Jalapalaka at 7,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Uffington Court at 7,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Scottish Chief at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
xAP Dilwara sunk by BB Mutsu at 9,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Shinkuang at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Uffington Court at 9,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Historian at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Scottish Chief at 11,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Uffington Court at 11,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Scottish Chief at 11,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Historian at 11,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Scottish Chief at 11,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Hunan at 11,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Steel Maker at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Shinkuang at 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Uffington Court at 12,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Historian at 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Ettrickbank at 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Loch Ranza at 12,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Ikauna at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Erinpura at 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Catrine at 12,000 yards
xAK Dagfred sunk by BB Hyuga at 12,000 yards
xAK Shinkuang sunk by BB Hyuga at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Catrine at 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Ettrickbank at 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Hunan at 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Erinpura at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Jalapalaka at 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Scottish Chief at 13,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Historian at 13,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Scottish Chief at 13,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Benrinnes at 13,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Catrine at 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Steel Maker at 13,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Ettrickbank at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Ettrickbank at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Esperance at 12,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Scottish Chief at 12,000 yards
xAK Barjora sunk by BB Hyuga at 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Ikauna at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Erinpura at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Jalapalaka at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Empire Glen at 9,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Scottish Chief at 9,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Historian at 9,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Scottish Chief at 9,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Scottish Chief at 9,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Scottish Chief at 9,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages xAK Hunan at 9,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Steel Maker at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Jalapalaka at 6,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Uffington Court at 6,000 yards
xAK Scottish Chief sunk by CA Haguro at 6,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Historian at 6,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Hunan at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
xAK Uffington Court sunk by BB Hyuga at 8,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 8,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 8,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 8,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Loch Ranza at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Jalapalaka at 12,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Historian at 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Empire Glen at 12,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Empire Glen at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 12,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 12,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Loch Ranza at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages xAK Empire Glen at 15,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Loch Ranza at 15,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages xAK Catrine at 15,000 yards
Kogure, Gunji* orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 17,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Jalapalaka at 17,000 yards
CA Haguro engages xAK Esperance at 17,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Catrine at 17,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Benrinnes at 17,000 yards
DD Mikazuki engages xAK Catrine at 17,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Steel Maker at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards
BB Mutsu engages xAK Historian at 18,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Esperance at 18,000 yards
CL Natori engages xAK Empire Glen at 18,000 yards
DD Karukaya engages xAK Erinpura at 18,000 yards
Task forces break off...

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 14

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 1/31/2011 6:18:14 PM

kfsgo

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/16/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Are you playing against the AI? That sucker cheats.

I'd personally assumine he is - I know I've had Japanese BBs bombard Palembang (which is similarly upriver) directly when playing the Ironman AI.

(it's actually a terrible idea since the oil wells tend to catch fire, but still)

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 15

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 1/31/2011 9:19:06 PM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

Tiltle says it all. I cannot send a transport of any great size into Rangoon and I certainly cannot send Allied BB's there as well so how do the Japaneses attack ships at sea at Rangoon with BB's?

I don't have a problem sending any cargo or transport ships into Rangoon. I routinely send resupply convoys to Rangoon. I just can't dock them if they exceed port capacity.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 16

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 1/31/2011 9:45:04 PM

Cornstar

Posts: 14
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

Tiltle says it all. I cannot send a transport of any great size into Rangoon and I certainly cannot send Allied BB's there as well so how do the Japaneses attack ships at sea at Rangoon with BB's?

I don't have a problem sending any cargo or transport ships into Rangoon. I routinely send resupply convoys to Rangoon. I just can't dock them if they exceed port capacity.

Chez

I've posted it in the tech support section (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2710777). Anything over 15k tonnes shouldn't be able to sail up there. Just checked, and I can't move anything up there over 15k tonnes still. And I can't imagine it's a AI cheat, seems a bit silly and unnecessary?

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Post #: 17

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 1/31/2011 10:30:18 PM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
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From: Chehalis, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cornstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

Tiltle says it all. I cannot send a transport of any great size into Rangoon and I certainly cannot send Allied BB's there as well so how do the Japaneses attack ships at sea at Rangoon with BB's?

I don't have a problem sending any cargo or transport ships into Rangoon. I routinely send resupply convoys to Rangoon. I just can't dock them if they exceed port capacity.

Chez

I've posted it in the tech support section (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2710777). Anything over 15k tonnes shouldn't be able to sail up there. Just checked, and I can't move anything up there over 15k tonnes still. And I can't imagine it's a AI cheat, seems a bit silly and unnecessary?

Interesting. I hadn't realized there was a restriction. Just checked myself and I cannot send a BB there. I haven't had any problems sending cargo or transport ships there but that is probably because they haven't exceeded 15k tons.

Learned something new.

Chez

< Message edited by ChezDaJez -- 1/31/2011 10:39:04 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 2/1/2011 4:17:32 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

Interesting. I hadn't realized there was a restriction. Just checked myself and I cannot send a BB there. I haven't had any problems sending cargo or transport ships there but that is probably because they haven't exceeded 15k tons.

Learned something new.

Chez

+1

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Post #: 19

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 2/1/2011 5:01:17 AM

zace

Posts: 183
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The AI is capable of teleporting ships for task forces. This is because the AI is not smart enough to think ahead and have them in the right position. Perhaps one of the IJ AI scripts puts capital ships in a task force at rangoon assuming the IJ should hold rangoon at this time.

I don't think he can query the data base and see if rangoon is held first. Ask Andy.

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Post #: 20

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 7:24:11 PM

Sredni

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

Sorry to necropost, but I figure it's better to just add to this rather then start a new thread. Has anyone figured out if it's just more allowed AI cheating or if it's a bug that the AI can send BB's into ports we can't send anything over 15k tons?

I came out of this fight ahead as far as I can tell. A CA and 2 dd's into the yard (I had another collision blarg) in exchange for one of his BB's in the yard. But you can't always count on luck like this. Normally IJN BB's would kick the crap out of allied forces. I'm having trouble stopping the japanese from resupplying their forces in palembang with small fast transport (I assume) runs. My NavS patrol spots stuff constantly but never raises the detection level, and the marine divebombers stationed in palembang never launch, even when IJN ships are sitting in the hex. So I figured I'd station a large surface fleet there to repel supply runs, but this won't work out if the AI can just send BB's in to crush me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna, Shell hits 13, on fire
CA Tone
DD Teruzuki, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Naganami
DD Samidare
DD Hishu

Allied Ships
CA Portland
CA Houston
CA Chester
CA Chicago
CA New Orleans
CA Astoria
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 2
CA Devonshire
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1
CA Exeter
CA Frobisher
CL Mauritius
DD Porter
DD Selfridge
DD Phelps
DD Arunta, Shell hits 3

(in reply to Chryse)

Post #: 21

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 7:31:39 PM

USSAmerica

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From: Graham, NC, USA
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It is a bug that the AI was able to add BB's and send them there. It has been fixed in one of the beta patch releases.

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Post #: 22

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 7:40:41 PM

Sredni

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
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Ahh cool thank you. The more I hear about it the more I'm tempted to update to the beta patch. Only thing holding me back is a pathological hatred and fear of beta's.

I know "It's stable and runs fine!" but.... Beta! *shiver*

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Post #: 23

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 7:52:34 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
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From: Graham, NC, USA
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It looks great, but I'm not using it in my PBEM games.

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Post #: 24

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 7:59:18 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

Ahh cool thank you. The more I hear about it the more I'm tempted to update to the beta patch. Only thing holding me back is a pathological hatred and fear of beta's.

I know "It's stable and runs fine!" but.... Beta! *shiver*

Beta is a label here, nothing more. It's stable as all get out. When it becomes "official" it'll just be a name change. There are substantial changes in the current betas that really alter the flow of the game for the Allies. I wouldn't wait.

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Post #: 25

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 9:15:30 PM

Mac Linehan

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

Ahh cool thank you. The more I hear about it the more I'm tempted to update to the beta patch. Only thing holding me back is a pathological hatred and fear of beta's.

I know "It's stable and runs fine!" but.... Beta! *shiver*

Beta is a label here, nothing more. It's stable as all get out. When it becomes "official" it'll just be a name change. There are substantial changes in the current betas that really alter the flow of the game for the Allies. I wouldn't wait.

Moose -

I must enthusiastically agree - there are some awesome changes / additions in the beta that really do change the flow of the game - for the better. I can say, once you've tried the beta: "Once in, never out!"

Mac

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Post #: 26

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 5/15/2011 9:30:52 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

It is a bug that the AI was able to add BB's and send them there.� It has been fixed in one of the beta patch releases. �

It's in the latest one. I discovered Jap BBs bombarding Palembang and gave the devs a heads up not long ago, which led to the fix.

Reference: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2789404

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/15/2011 9:40:56 PM >

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RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 3/17/2018 12:05:03 AM

saunders911

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As you can see from the combat report below, the AI battleships sailing up rivers feature is still present in the latest version of the game, whose version number ends in 26b.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Palembang at 48,91

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 19 damaged
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed on ground
Hudson I: 18 damaged
Hudson I: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim I: 12 damaged
Blenheim I: 1 destroyed on ground
Buffalo I: 34 damaged
Buffalo I: 3 destroyed on ground
Vildebeest III: 3 damaged
Vildebeest III: 3 destroyed on ground
L-18 Lodestar: 5 damaged
L-18 Lodestar: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 3 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim IF: 6 damaged
Blenheim IF: 2 destroyed on ground
Buffalo PR.I: 1 damaged
Buffalo PR.I: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-4 Catalina: 4 damaged
PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro
BB Haruna
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya

Allied ground losses:
210 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 56 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 11 (4 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 45

F1M2 Pete acting as spotter for BB Yamashiro
BB Yamashiro firing at Palembang
E13A1 Jake acting as spotter for BB Haruna
BB Haruna firing at Palembang Base Force
Palembang Base Force firing at BB Haruna
CA Kumano firing at Palembang
CA Suzuya firing at Palembang

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

< Message edited by saunders911 -- 3/17/2018 12:07:25 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 3/18/2018 3:49:38 PM

spence

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
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According to the current port of Yangon (Rangoon) profile the mean depth of the various anchorages is between 6.4m and 9.1m. The depth varies with the tide which has a range of -2m at low tide and ~+6M at high tide. The dredged channel is 100m wide. Outside that channel the depth changes unpredictably. The are two bars at the mouth of the river which are generally crossed only at high tide.

According to Wiki the drafts of the Mutsu class BBs and Kirishima Class BBs ranged from 9m to 9.5m. Strangely (with a completely insane CO) the Mutsu would be able to enter Rangoon harbor with 3 inches (8cm) to spare. The Kirishima could only manage it at high tide. Neither of them could turn around in the dredged channel although they could manage it in the turning basin in the inner harbor.

< Message edited by spence -- 3/18/2018 3:50:28 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Can someone explain how Japanese battleships can sa... - 3/18/2018 7:26:32 PM

Disco Duck

Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, a quick look at the "amazing" google earth and using the handy measuring tool provided, shows that the docks of Rangoon are about 45 to 50 miles from water deep enough for safe navagation of a large ship. The Yangon River is flat, wide and full of sediment. I could see no channel and doubt that a river like that would could keep a permanent deep water dredged channel for any lenght of time. Obviously your two ML had ventured out to deep waters to intercept any raiding BBs and got caught with their pants down. As an aside, my subs have been laying mines in the channel and it is now obvious to me that would not have been possible as well.

The game has lots of abstracts that we have to live with. This is just one of many.

Actually you don't dredge. You use the speed of the water to from the river to dredge it. See the book " Rising tide, the great Mississippi flood of 1927 and how it changed America." The technique was used by Robert E. Lee, ( yes that Robert E. Lee) at one time , and for the purposes of the book how New Orleans was turned into a usable port. Not only is it a very fascinating political book it has a huge amount of engineering details about clearing ports.

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