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American Civil War - 3/20/2018 9:13:24 AM

lordhoff

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Most games of this type seem to be at the tactical or strategic level. I very much enjoyed games where one is in operational control during a battle. For instance, although this is ancient history, games such as the old Avalon Hill/Victory Games Gettysburg where one had control of the army of one side and played the entire battle with a map view. I'm currently playing Scourge of War which seems to be a fine tactical level game but I do miss second guessing Lee or Meade. So, are there any PC games that allow this? The Tillerman games may have been similar but that AI ----

Post #: 1

RE: American Civil War - 3/20/2018 10:50:12 AM

elxaime

Posts: 304
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

IMO the challenge with operational scale battle games has always been whether they can ever realistically model fog of war and command and control in the pre-19th century. Take a battle like Gettysburg, a classic meeting engagement. In the actual battle, it was full of episodes of commanders ignoring orders or misconstruing them, commanders and units spooked by unexpected events, overall lack of knowledge not only of the enemy but of one's own forces on either flank. Orders travelled by horseback, commands were shouted, and reconnaissance was conducted using the Mark I eyeball.

A "realistic" modeling may end up looking like the Battle of Borodino from the Russia perspective - a cloud of noise and smoke and chaos, with Kutuzov and his entourage "in command" from miles in the rear while giving few orders that actually had an impact after the general order was given to make a stand before Moscow. Game players would not find that very fun. So we allow the eagle eye view and instant carrying out of orders, etc.

All this is to say that I tend to stay with strategic level games these days. They have their own issues, but I have found it is very hard to immerse in a John Tiller style 19th century game due to the above factors.

(in reply to lordhoff)

Post #: 2

RE: American Civil War - 3/20/2018 12:06:46 PM

Yogi the Great

Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

Take a look at Brother Against Brother

_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to elxaime)

Post #: 3

RE: American Civil War - 3/21/2018 5:18:00 AM

Rosseau

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline

I paid $50, took a look at it, and was never more disappointed. That is my opinion. The fact that it is easily the most poorly supported $50 game by Matrix and dev is a fact. Still, with money no object, you might have fun with a couple of scenarios. There aren't many and modding it is a b****

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 4

RE: American Civil War - 3/21/2018 7:34:50 AM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline

for me, who wasn't a CW fan and tbh never really played any of the battles or games with it in, i really liked Brother Against Brother and was on the beta with Yogi the Great for a long time, regarding the Dev's and support, support is 24/7 365 days a year, as that's with the board / forum tbh, and as the publishers want it to be successful, have always made sure any bugs reported, got fixed, so it works and works well, but yes some times the engine can look and feel a bit dated, we all knew this, but the game it self, is great, and game play is fun and from what i've been told, more realistic than any other CW game to date, bar none,...

some dev's live on the forums and don't have others jobs, while some have 2 jobs and do games as hobbies, either way i can't knock anyone or either of the choices as without them, i'd be playing nothing,...

so has we have both been called fan boys, lol we loved that, well i did, aged 51 this year, anyone who calls me a boy is a m8 for life

modding is well yes, complicated to say the least, and map making is a no go, unless you level of skill is legendary to say the least.

regarding scenarios, there's more than enough for the price of the game, as all can be played by both sides, and altering only slightly anything in the game, makes each and everyone re playable many many times, as the AI is very good, the design is something you have to get used to, as command and control is what it was like in the day i would guess, yes a bit patchy at best, so until you really know how to play the game, you feel at times that you have little overall control of the game, or battles or even anything, and with the learning curve on the low then rising to the steep part, the manual even for me is a must if you don't wish to be wiped out, each and every game you play.

but in the end once mastered, the game flows and really comes into it's own, one of the hidden gem's and great programming, i only wished more had bought it, and played it more and got to enjoy it, as all those who did, rate it very highly tbh.

since this game opened my eyes to the CW, iv'e watched some great films on it, even a TV series, then also gone and tried some other CW game, some good, some ok and some tbh not worth a mention, as RTS isn't my thing, so you may already know which one i mean, as everyone raved about it, and i played it at a m8's house and was sooooooo glad i didn't buy it, as it's a RTS fantasy game not based on anything real, with everyone doing as you ask, no matter what, so rubbish in my eyes for a sim / war game from the period or based on history.

but as each to there own, we all like things and see things differently and each person and buyer has a right to say what ever they like as it's there opinion and choice as it's there money that's been spent, so no one person is right, and no body is wrong either, it's about choice, if it wasn't made, imo we would be alot worst off without it, as i know for one, more than a few really loved it and wish for more one day of the same.

< Message edited by zakblood -- 3/21/2018 7:42:41 AM >

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 5

RE: American Civil War - 3/21/2018 10:13:56 AM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

For me, who wasn't a CW fan and tbh never really played any of the battles or games with it in, i don't know but as Mike, Yogi and Zak are friends, their opinion is important for me but I continue to I don't know.
May be if a no-friend gives his advice, I'll know but I repeat for the moment I don't know.

(in reply to lordhoff)

Post #: 6

RE: American Civil War - 3/22/2018 3:11:49 AM

Rosseau

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline

Actually, I was a bit harsh. Better imo than the HPS ACW games for me. But what would it have taken over all these years to create a free scenario and throw it out there - for their own benefit? No real effort was put in to promote the game post-release, and not sure about the bug releases. In the short time I played it (another factor here), I did not find any bugs.

(in reply to rico21)

Post #: 7

RE: American Civil War - 3/22/2018 9:13:51 PM

ringoblood

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/10/2018
From: USA
Status: offline

I agree with most comments here, however with the limited American Civil War games here, plus growing up with Tiller's Battlegrounds as a Teenager, I find it most comfortable for me to play Tiller's. Plus I am in the process of getting my Ph.D in Biblical Studies with a minor in History. I don't mind mechanics in gaming as long as the History/Lore is correct and that is what i find to be most enjoyable is the Lore.

< Message edited by ringoblood -- 3/22/2018 9:20:34 PM >

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 8

RE: American Civil War - 3/22/2018 9:21:36 PM

bazjak

Posts: 263
Joined: 9/1/2014
From: Wales UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

I paid $50, took a look at it, and was never more disappointed. That is my opinion. The fact that it is easily the most poorly supported $50 game by Matrix and dev is a fact. Still, with money no object, you might have fun with a couple of scenarios. There aren't many and modding it is a b****

I agree with you most wholeheartedly Rosseau
Look at my posts on the forum on there
All i wanted was a decent tutorial
Its so popular that the last post was about 5 months ago
The devs are non exsitant and yet people defend them

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 9

RE: American Civil War - 3/22/2018 10:03:18 PM

Yogi the Great

Posts: 1948
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

Depends what you mean by people defend them.

The people who are familiar with the game and taken the time to "figure it out" so to speak defend the game. It is one of if not the best civil war battle game on the market. Far more "realistic" than many other games. That's all we are saying.

Would a good tutorial have been a good thing to have? Would better response, answers and action by the developer been a good thing to do? Would stronger graphics add to the game? Very likely the answer to these and some other complaints would be yes. But if you are struggling with any of these questions it has no real bearing on if the game system itself is good or not. I am disappointed that the developer is unwilling or unable to answer the questions. I am very disappointed that I may never see the vision of many follow up games featuring other civil war battles using the system with each having improvements as it progresses. I know that it is one of the best innovative civil war games out there.

_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to bazjak)

Post #: 10

RE: American Civil War - 3/22/2018 10:07:07 PM

ringoblood

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/10/2018
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

Depends what you mean by people defend them.

The people who are familiar with the game and taken the time to "figure it out" so to speak defend the game. It is one of if not the best civil war battle game on the market. Far more "realistic" than many other games. That's all we are saying.

Would a good tutorial have been a good thing to have? Would better response, answers and action by the developer been a good thing to do? Would stronger graphics add to the game? Very likely the answer to these and some other complaints would be yes. But if you are struggling with any of these questions it has no real bearing on if the game system itself is good or not. I am disappointed that the developer is unwilling or unable to answer the questions. I am very disappointed that I may never see the vision of many follow up games featuring other civil war battles using the system with each having improvements as it progresses. I know that it is one of the best innovative civil war games out there.

Agreed

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 11

RE: American Civil War - 3/23/2018 12:29:49 AM

bazjak

Posts: 263
Joined: 9/1/2014
From: Wales UK
Status: offline

Did any of you see my posts on that forum
All i was asking for was a decent tutorial but nothing from the devs
I dont care if it was one guy or two or even a big company who made the game thats not my problem they still took my money and then that was it never to be heard of again

(in reply to ringoblood)

Post #: 12