Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The game uses many abstractions, and of course ANY game can be said to be entirely made up of a set of abstractions to construct the model meant to mimic reality to a greater or lesser degree.

In this case you only see the TF based on DL. DL has its own procedures for being assigned. In basic terms it's really that simple.

The particulars of any piece of terrain in real life do not matter at all. The scenario designer types in certain values to the scenario database and the map file (the pwhex three-file set) and that is all the game code has to work with. In the case of bases you type in things like maximum port size, starting port size, and a bunch of other things. Due to this limitation things like the real life fact "Diego Garcia is NOT a big place" (which you point out) do not matter. The game doesn't know that (scenario data doesn't include that), and even if the game had known it the code might not have been written to consider it (too much code to write and/or too much code to run = too slow on player's PC).

And during the landing you still might see 'shore batteries firing at landing craft' type messages because those are different parts of the code. The lack of the TF icon on the map indicates a lack of DL; it does not mean the forces are invisible overall.

I'm sure there is no map edge issue involved, even though it looks close to humans it's very distinctly away from the edge for the code.

Saying it the way I understand it: the game puts on the map enemy things based on information deemed revealed to the player. That includes DL, SigInt, bases and size of facilities are always considered known, and maybe things that fall slightly outside those categories.

A human would add certain things the game doesn't. A human, knowing enemy landings were taking place at Diego Garcia would, even though lacking any 'DL' type sightings of an enemy TF at Diego Garcia - a human commander would just slap down an enemy TF marker there anyway. A human commander would feel free to send aircraft to attack the enemy TF 'which must be there'. But the game doesn't have that code.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The game uses many abstractions, and of course ANY game can be said to be entirely made up of a set of abstractions to construct the model meant to mimic reality to a greater or lesser degree.

In this case you only see the TF based on DL. DL has its own procedures for being assigned. In basic terms it's really that simple.

The particulars of any piece of terrain in real life do not matter at all. The scenario designer types in certain values to the scenario database and the map file (the pwhex three-file set) and that is all the game code has to work with. In the case of bases you type in things like maximum port size, starting port size, and a bunch of other things. Due to this limitation things like the real life fact "Diego Garcia is NOT a big place" (which you point out) do not matter. The game doesn't know that (scenario data doesn't include that), and even if the game had known it the code might not have been written to consider it (too much code to write and/or too much code to run = too slow on player's PC).

And during the landing you still might see 'shore batteries firing at landing craft' type messages because those are different parts of the code. The lack of the TF icon on the map indicates a lack of DL; it does not mean the forces are invisible overall.

I'm sure there is no map edge issue involved, even though it looks close to humans it's very distinctly away from the edge for the code.

Saying it the way I understand it: the game puts on the map enemy things based on information deemed revealed to the player. That includes DL, SigInt, bases and size of facilities are always considered known, and maybe things that fall slightly outside those categories.

A human would add certain things the game doesn't. A human, knowing enemy landings were taking place at Diego Garcia would, even though lacking any 'DL' type sightings of an enemy TF at Diego Garcia - a human commander would just slap down an enemy TF marker there anyway. A human commander would feel free to send aircraft to attack the enemy TF 'which must be there'. But the game doesn't have that code.

I wonder sometimes if you realize how much of a lecturer you come across as? That was a mini lecture for those who didn't have that level of understanding of how the game works. I myself am open to lectures on things I want to understand better. Or did you mean "lecturer" in an insulting way? To folks who have been playing the engine for fifteen years? OK, you are insulted by how I provided information and perspective that I think might be helpful, or perhaps by the mere fact that I dared to provide it at all. I am appropriately chastised. If you meant to provide useful feedback on how to do it differently, you didn't. Unless you just mean I shouldn't bother.

I speculated that there could be a bug because I have read the m annual on DL and MDL many times. There should be a TF detection there.

"Add 1 to DL Japanese TF moves into coastal hex with y coordinate>30
and sighted by coastwatcher during daylight 75% chance
of sighting, during Night 50% chance of sighting, also if
daylight phase then second chance of adding 1 if DL is still 0
after first check). This also happens at the beginning of each
resolution phase for each Japanese TF in a coastal hex."

and

"If the MDL of a TF is above 1, then you will receive a list of ship classes of ships that have been
positively identified and an estimated total number of ships in the TF."

In all my years of playing I have never had a garrisoned base NOT see the TF that is unloading troops at the start of the next turn.I have, a number of times. Never bothered documenting it because it seemed like just part of how the game works. Pretty sure I've seen it in my current PBM, possibly more than once. This is the situation I interpreted to be the case in the OP. IF that is not the case, then of course this conclusion is in error.

If the landing collapses on the beach there is a text line to that effect. Ditto if the attack fails, the troops reload, and depart. The OP does not mention either of these cases.

Back to the shadows for me . . .