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Question - 3/30/2018 1:48:51 AM

coachi

Posts: 185
Joined: 1/17/2018
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I have witw and enjoy it. Although sometimes the air war can be a pain. I�ve thought about this game but am overwhelmed listening to the post. Does one need a PhD in WWII to play this or can it be fun without knowing every single plane. Etc

Post #: 1

RE: Question - 3/30/2018 2:09:39 AM

BBfanboy

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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: coachi

I have witw and enjoy it. Although sometimes the air war can be a pain. I�ve thought about this game but am overwhelmed listening to the post. Does one need a PhD in WWII to play this or can it be fun without knowing every single plane. Etc

As long as you do not expect to play a perfect game you can have fun from the start. There is a lot to learn about game mechanics and strategies, let alone the technical details of aircraft and firepower ratings of various units. It takes only a few weeks to feel like you have an idea how to make things happen but it takes much longer to feel you can arrange things to challenge another player. There are short scenarios with limited forces involved to help you get started.

Bottom line, if you like lots of detail and organizing huge undertakings like preparing an island invasion, you will enjoy the game. If you want things to happen fast and resolve quickly, you will probably find the game too long. Most of the long-term players here actually enjoy the logistics - getting the units, supply and fuel where you need it can feel like a small victory each time you succeed.

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Post #: 2

RE: Question - 3/30/2018 9:48:46 AM

Leandros

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A little training goes a long way....

....Even if I read the manual extensively before my couple of first games I still learnt an incredible number of things when actually playing it.

Fred

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Post #: 3

RE: Question - 3/30/2018 10:59:05 AM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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He said perfect game....

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 4

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 4:09:52 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

He said perfect game....

No such thing.

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Post #: 5

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 4:22:35 PM

pmelheck1

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From: Alabama
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This is a fun game if your interested in the subject. Also it can whet your appetite to learn more of aircraft and ships. The ground war is secondary as the primary focus of this game is ships and aircraft. It's different in this game watching enemy attack aircraft bomb and torpedo your carriers knowing how precious they are and knowing how few if any are in the pipeline and the next carrier to be produced might be days or up to a year and a half away

< Message edited by pmelheck1 -- 3/31/2018 4:23:55 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 4:24:16 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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The best way to learn the game for me was to "restart" every single time I learned something new.
I probably did 20 or so of these before I got past 6 months of game time.

The game just has so many great features, it will become second nature to you and is such a great learning tool.

You do NOT need to be a history nut to play the game, and this forum has many great people willing to help you with any single question you might conjure!

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Post #: 7

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 4:39:37 PM

GamesaurusRex

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If you are a "Grognard"... you will love it.
If not... you may be overwhelmed by it.
It depends upon what you are looking for in a game.
Personally, I freely admit to being a Grognard.

For the unwashed among us... and because even some of the current definitions of "Grognard" floating about are lacking...

DEFINITION : "Grognard"

A reference describing that "type" of gamer who is generally attracted by games of great complexity, wherein the modeling and operating rules and mechanics reflect a high degree of reality. Additionally, these gamers are often more ardent about the degree to which a game's rules and mechanics properly reflect reality. As a result, they are often viewed as "Grognards"... the French word for "Grumblers" or, "complainers"... and this is the piece of the definition of Grognards that seems to be often overlooked in recent definitions one finds.

It is important because it is the actual source for the derivation of the word. "Les Grognard" was originally a French term referring to members of the "Old Guard" in Napoleon's day who, having much experience in combat and time spent in "La Grande Armee", had very definite opinions about how battles and operations should be carried out. When their orders from High Command differed from their own sense of the proper approach to military situations, these experienced and opinionated veterans were often outspoken about it. Ergo, "Grognards"... or in english, "Grumblers".

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/31/2018 4:42:32 PM >

(in reply to m10bob)

Post #: 8

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 5:11:51 PM

pbiggar

Posts: 71
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Status: offline

Edit - I misread your post. You are WitW player, not War in the Pacific. I will leave comments below for anyone former WITP players.
To original poster - if you enjoy the Pacific Theatre,ships, planes and naval battles I suggest you give this a go.

======================================================================================================

I too played the original WITP a ton years ago. I have played WITP AE off and on for 3 years or so now. My short answer is that you will probably enjoy this game as well if you can get over the interface learning curve.

I remember when I started to play AE I knew what I wanted to do, but was stuck trying to figure out how to execute. I expect this will be your biggest challenge. The interface is not intuitive and time needs to be invested to learn it. Learning the interface is not rewarding - planning and executing amphibious invasions and having carrier battles is. The only way to get to the good stuff is be prepared for the investment in learning.

Tips that helped me learn:
1) Watch the you tube videos about how to do basic stuff - create a task force, make an air strike etc.
2) Play very small scenarios with the intent of learning how to do the basics
3) Start and restart the full campaign a few times

Most of the detail in forums is very advanced complexity that will keep you interested in the game for years as you will discover deeper levels of sophistication, but you do not need to play at that level to have good rich experience like you did with the original WITP.

In my experience, I loved WITP, and I appreciate the deeper complexity of AE version and active community. I get to do all the stuff I loved about WITP, but in a richer environment.

Welcome aboard!!

< Message edited by pbiggar -- 3/31/2018 5:16:02 PM >

(in reply to coachi)

Post #: 9

RE: Question - 3/31/2018 7:29:39 PM

dasboot1960

Posts: 389
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From: St Augustine, Florida
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I too hark from the old paper and cardboard days, and suppose myself a'grognard'. The worst of which was the 'lawyer grognard' who tried to argur every if, and but, comma and semi-colon within the rules to his favor(or hers). On definite positive of the computer game is. The rules just are!

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Post #: 10

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 2:31:15 PM

Hermit

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Joined: 12/22/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

He said perfect game....

No such thing.

Really? I've had several perfect games... if you count perfect fiasco's!!

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 11

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 2:57:40 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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Well, if you really want to know fully about the War in the Pacific, I contend that you almost have to play this game. History books are great for detail but I learn best from visual images and now understand why so many things happened they way they did. I thought I knew a great deal about the Pacific conflict. But would have never understood it like I do now without experiencing this simulation. Just knowing the geography alone is worth the cost. So, yes it is a pain to master but has been well worth it for me.

That aside, there is also some satisfaction to be had in sinking some poor bastard's carriers.

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Post #: 12

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 3:09:30 PM

Lecivius

Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
For the unwashed among us... and because even some of the current definitions of "Grognard" floating about are lacking...

Hey, I take showers! Every 3 months, religiously!!

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 13

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 5:09:16 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
For the unwashed among us... and because even some of the current definitions of "Grognard" floating about are lacking...

Hey, I take showers! Every 3 months, religiously!!

Religiously? Does that mean you pray you do not clog the drain when you take that shower? Or you pray that no one turns on the hot or cold water in another room ...

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 14

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 6:48:15 PM

Korvar

Posts: 813
Joined: 9/3/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, if you really want to know fully about the War in the Pacific, I contend that you almost have to play this game. History books are great for detail but I learn best from visual images and now understand why so many things happened they way they did. I thought I knew a great deal about the Pacific conflict. But would have never understood it like I do now without experiencing this simulation. Just knowing the geography alone is worth the cost. So, yes it is a pain to master but has been well worth it for me.

+1

The game provides a framework and context for everything you read in books / on the internet, and more importantly that context provides reasoning for your brain to retain the information instead of discarding it. Before WitP:AE, I knew the broad strokes of the Pacific War - Midway and the like, but nowhere near the detail I do now - to the point I've had a WW2 historian recently make the comment in conversation "you know what you're talking about". That said, there is still a bunch to learn.

Keep in mind that the game isn't 100% accurate - it is a game after all, not a WW2 simulator. For example, there's no such location as "Shortlands" IRL (i.e. the game base on the south tip of Bougainville in the Solomon Islands). That in-game base is actually a combination of the real base of Buin combined with the neighboring Shortland Islands. Yet the game is close enough most of the time to be of benefit.

If you can supplement the game with books as well as museums (if you have access to any), it will help even more. Not much beats standing on the bridge of an Iowa class battleship, the hangar deck of a WW2 carrier, or seeing three Japanese Zeroes fly in formation. You should be able to access books at least, and if you don't have any museums/monuments nearby, then find out where they are and let them influence your choice of future vacation destinations.

_____________________________

WitP:AE Install & Configuration App - Get SeaBee Here
Allied Ship Insignia Art

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 15

RE: Question - 4/3/2018 7:14:27 PM

Lecivius

Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
For the unwashed among us... and because even some of the current definitions of "Grognard" floating about are lacking...

Hey, I take showers! Every 3 months, religiously!!

Religiously? Does that mean you pray you do not clog the drain when you take that shower? Or you pray that no one turns on the hot or cold water in another room ...

Means I pray I don't loose my mind as the dirt swirls down the drain.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 16

RE: Question - 4/4/2018 10:36:34 AM

LargeSlowTarget

Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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The game has all sorts of abstractions which makes things easier than it was IRL. As Kovar mentioned, in the game the Shortlands is just one base that can be build into a medium-sized airbase and port. For game purposes that's all you need to know about that location. You don't need to know that this base actually represent the RL Japanese seaplane base in the channel between Shortland Is. and Fasie Is., a small airfield at Ballale Is. (the destination of Yamamoto's last flight), and a good-sized protected anchorage with minimum port facilities - all this in the Shortlands Islands group - plus a small airfield near Buin in southern Bougainville, which is also know as Kahili airbases. This level of detail is not modelled in the game, so do not feel overwhelmed by postings on the forum, where knowledgable grognards are in abundance.

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(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 17

RE: Question - 4/4/2018 1:23:30 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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War is about logistics. This is an underappreciated concept IMO (not on this forum ofc), and WITP is a perfect game to ram it in.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 18

RE: Question - 4/6/2018 11:44:26 AM

wegman58

Posts: 460
Joined: 12/28/2013
From: Edina, MN (FROM the Bronx)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, if you really want to know fully about the War in the Pacific, I contend that you almost have to play this game. History books are great for detail but I learn best from visual images and now understand why so many things happened they way they did. I thought I knew a great deal about the Pacific conflict. But would have never understood it like I do now without experiencing this simulation. Just knowing the geography alone is worth the cost. So, yes it is a pain to master but has been well worth it for me.

+1

The game provides a framework and context for everything you read in books / on the internet, and more importantly that context provides reasoning for your brain to retain the information instead of discarding it. Before WitP:AE, I knew the broad strokes of the Pacific War - Midway and the like, but nowhere near the detail I do now - to the point I've had a WW2 historian recently make the comment in conversation "you know what you're talking about". That said, there is still a bunch to learn.

Keep in mind that the game isn't 100% accurate - it is a game after all, not a WW2 simulator. For example, there's no such location as "Shortlands" IRL (i.e. the game base on the south tip of Bougainville in the Solomon Islands). That in-game base is actually a combination of the real base of Buin combined with the neighboring Shortland Islands. Yet the game is close enough most of the time to be of benefit.

If you can supplement the game with books as well as museums (if you have access to any), it will help even more. Not much beats standing on the bridge of an Iowa class battleship, the hangar deck of a WW2 carrier, or seeing three Japanese Zeroes fly in formation. You should be able to access books at least, and if you don't have any museums/monuments nearby, then find out where they are and let them influence your choice of future vacation destinations.

You make me feel old. I remember sharing a pier with USS NEW JERSEY. It is BIG. Not as big as a super-carrier, but BIG!

(in reply to Korvar)

Post #: 19

RE: Question - 4/6/2018 4:51:46 PM

Zorch

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex
For the unwashed among us... and because even some of the current definitions of "Grognard" floating about are lacking...

Hey, I take showers! Every 3 months, religiously!!

Religiously? Does that mean you pray you do not clog the drain when you take that shower? Or you pray that no one turns on the hot or cold water in another room ...

Means I pray I don't loose my mind as the dirt swirls down the drain.

Which way does the water swirl around the drain if you're on the equator?

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 20

RE: Question - 4/6/2018 7:21:58 PM

Korvar

Posts: 813
Joined: 9/3/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58

You make me feel old. I remember sharing a pier with USS NEW JERSEY. It is BIG. Not as big as a super-carrier, but BIG!

Sorta like this big? (USS Iowa pictured; note guy under battle ribbons for scale)

It must have been especially neat seeing one of these while in commission. Closest I got was a glimpse of the Missouri in dock at San Diego just before she made the journey to Pearl.

I wonder what the AA value for this upgrade variant would be... considering the multiple CIWS mounts aboard.

_____________________________

WitP:AE Install & Configuration App - Get SeaBee Here
Allied Ship Insignia Art

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Post #: 21

RE: Question - 4/6/2018 8:42:18 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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NM the AA value, what is the anti-ship value of a Tomahawk missile (with a conventional anti-ship warhead).

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Post #: 22

RE: Question - 4/6/2018 10:52:08 PM

Korvar

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Joined: 9/3/2014
Status: offline

The other amazing thing about battleships like this is the craftsmanship that went into their construction. They were built with next to no electronics by today's standards, yet they were very, very mechanically sophisticated. For instance, I was told on board that the steel industry of the US has deteriorated to such a degree that we couldn't rebuild the armored conning tower of the Iowa class again, absent significant capital re-investment in steel plants. The mechanical Mark 1A Fire Control Computer and Mark 8 Rangekeeper were sights to behold in their own right. By touring a ship like this, you definitely gain a new appreciation for the skilled trades which kept them afloat and operational, not to mention under wartime conditions.

The Iowa is dwarfed by the huge container cargo vessels which pass by it on a regular basis; however, it's worth considering that pretty much all ships larger than the Iowa class are cavernous. Carrier hull space is significantly consumed by the hangar deck and cargo vessels their cargo holds. The Iowa is jam-packed with machinery; very few internal areas are what I'd call 'spacious' - even the bridge isn't that spacious... the center of it is consumed by the aforementioned armored conning tower. The boiler rooms, mess halls, and Admiral's quarters are some of the few areas that come to mind that give any impression of spaciousness... and a 5" turret were removed to make room for the Admiral's quarters. The rest of the ship is jam-packed with machinery and steel.

As museums, only a fraction of these vessels are open to the public - yet it takes the better part of an afternoon just to take a cursory glance at what is available to be seen. I can easily imagine that crew stationed on opposite ends of the ship probably rarely if ever saw each other on months-long cruises - they perhaps only had the opportunity to see each other when the ship's crew was mustered before/after a tour.

EDIT: to get a hint of the amount (and thickness) of steel on board a ship like this... see that minor dent that needs an arrow to point it out? That's the effect of a 6" (light cruiser main battery equivalent) shell from a shore battery during the Marshall Islands campaign. No bothers given.

< Message edited by Korvar -- 4/6/2018 10:55:41 PM >

_____________________________

WitP:AE Install & Configuration App - Get SeaBee Here
Allied Ship Insignia Art

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Post #: 23

RE: Question - 4/7/2018 12:19:24 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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I read about the manufacture of armour plate some time ago. IIRC, the difficult part was having an oven large enough to create the slab of armour, a place to douse one surface with fine carbon particles to face-harden the metal, and a temperature controlled room that would keep the steel from cooling too quickly and cracking. Essentially, the room was an oven and cooling took months.

I think the outer barrels for large naval guns went through a similar cooling process after the hot outer steel was placed over the tensioned wire core and shrunk in place. There was of course a rifled replaceable liner fitted inside the gun barrel after it cooled.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Korvar)

Post #: 24

RE: Question - 4/7/2018 4:47:59 PM

wegman58

Posts: 460
Joined: 12/28/2013
From: Edina, MN (FROM the Bronx)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

quote:

ORIGINAL: wegman58

You make me feel old. I remember sharing a pier with USS NEW JERSEY. It is BIG. Not as big as a super-carrier, but BIG!

Sorta like this big? (USS Iowa pictured; note guy under battle ribbons for scale)

It must have been especially neat seeing one of these while in commission. Closest I got was a glimpse of the Missouri in dock at San Diego just before she made the journey to Pearl.

I wonder what the AA value for this upgrade variant would be... considering the multiple CIWS mounts aboard.

I was on a reserve KNOX class frigate. Saturday morning, changing over duty sections. We knew USS NEW JERSEY had six section duty (we had four).

Muster a 100 man working party on the pier...

We look around - we could have everyone on board - as working parties are normally E6 and below we're wondering if we had 100 E6 and below. They could do it with only one sixth of the crew onboard.

ALSO - 16 inch guns are impressive. Gun line with USS NEW JERSEY. They fire ONE shell. After counting to determine it is two miles away we feel, as much as hear, the shot. Do NOT want to think about being on the receiving end of nine of those.

(in reply to Korvar)

Post #: 25

RE: Question - 4/8/2018 5:58:00 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

EDIT: to get a hint of the amount (and thickness) of steel on board a ship like this... see that minor dent that needs an arrow to point it out? That's the effect of a 6" (light cruiser main battery equivalent) shell from a shore battery during the Marshall Islands campaign. No bothers given.

I recall when the vessels were re-commissioned during the 80's(?). The Faulklands War was going on at about that time and the Sheffield was sunk. Well people (OK reporters

) went bonkers calling the BB's dinosaurs. In an interview with one of the CO's, questions to that effect were asked ad nauseam, and after a while you could see the commander was visilby annoyed. Finally he interrupted the 'gathering' and said (paraphrasing a bit as it was a while back) "unless I was in the vacinity of the strike I would not know that we'd been hit until one of my crewmen had so informed me."

Tough old buckets.

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Post #: 26

RE: Question - 4/11/2018 6:51:00 PM

wegman58

Posts: 460
Joined: 12/28/2013
From: Edina, MN (FROM the Bronx)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

EDIT: to get a hint of the amount (and thickness) of steel on board a ship like this... see that minor dent that needs an arrow to point it out? That's the effect of a 6" (light cruiser main battery equivalent) shell from a shore battery during the Marshall Islands campaign. No bothers given.

I recall when the vessels were re-commissioned during the 80's(?). The Faulklands War was going on at about that time and the Sheffield was sunk. Well people (OK reporters ) went bonkers calling the BB's dinosaurs. In an interview with one of the CO's, questions to that effect were asked ad nauseam, and after a while you could see the commander was visilby annoyed. Finally he interrupted the 'gathering' and said (paraphrasing a bit as it was a while back) "unless I was in the vacinity of the strike I would not know that we'd been hit until one of my crewmen had so informed me." Tough old buckets.

Showing my age again - I was in Portsmouth for the Naval Review for Elizabeth's 25th Anniversary as Queen (1977 - I was 18 at the time). USN sent a few smaller ships (an LPA and a CGN were the big ships - didn't send a carrier which would have made the Royal Navy look bad). ARK ROYAL was still in commission. But the touristy 'cruise books' (I wish I hadn't lost that over the years) did NOT have the carrier on the cover, they had HMS SHEFFIELD. SO I few years later when I'm bobbing around the Indian Ocean on top of 6,000 tons of munitions that news was a bit of a shock.

Real navies stopped designing new ships with aluminum superstructures at that point. The TICONDEROGA class was already designed, but the BURKE class has steel superstructures.

AND some kamikaze damage on battleships was repaired with paint.

< Message edited by wegman58 -- 4/11/2018 6:52:38 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Question - 4/11/2018 8:48:36 PM

Korvar

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Joined: 9/3/2014
Status: offline

From what I could tell from the original photo, it appeared that a paint job was about all the Iowa needed after the 6" shore battery strike - at least for the turret. It's hard to tell, but it looks like there was some deflection damage... or maybe it was just scorching (to the lower right of the impact point).