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Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert to P-51B-10s?

 
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Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert to ... - 2/5/2018 8:45:49 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 414
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
Status: offline 		I was wondering if there is a conversion similar to FBs converting to recon versions, or if the P-51B-1 and P51B-10 are completely separate models produced independent of each other. The only difference between the two is an 87 gal fuel tank in the fuselage, which was installed at the factory and retrofitted in the field to earlier P-51Bs (i.e., P-51B-1s were converted into P-51B-10s while they were in service in England).
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RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 2/6/2018 9:15:21 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		They are separate models and they don't upgrade. Data is vague at best for tank modifications in the field but I'd be happy to get some facts.

(in reply to bomccarthy)
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RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 2/6/2018 10:46:02 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 414
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
Status: offline 		For a discussion of the 85 gal fuselage tank and its incorporation into the P-51B/C, see Bernard Boylan, Development of the Long-Range Escort Fighter (USAF Historical Study No. 136) (USAF Historical Division, Research Studies Institute, Air University, 1955), pp. 155-9 (pdf available here: http://www.354thpmfg.com/media_affhd.html).

North American began installing the 85 gal tank in the P-51B/C at the factory in November 1943, while approximately 262 field kits were shipped to England by the end of January 1944 for retrofitting P-51B/Cs already in England. Note that these kits also included 60 gallon internal tanks to be added to the P-38J; while Boylan doesn’t indicate how many kits were for the P-51 and how many for the P-38J, The AAF Board had recommended in November 1943 that the P-51 be adopted as the standard long-range escort (Boylan, p. 158-9). If you have a source for the numbers of P-51B/C-5, 6, etc. in operational service, you could determine the number of P-51B/Cs retrofitted in the field in January/February, since the P-51B-10NA would be the first factory version with the 85 gal tank.

Numbers-wise, 1,988 P-51Bs were built in Inglewood, of which 308 went to the RAF as Mustang IIIs, and 1,750 P-51Cs were built in Dallas, of which 636 went to the RAF as Mustang IIIs. The overwhelming majority of P-51Bs and Cs were delivered to the European theater between November 1943 and May 1944; however, significant engine problems were not ironed out by Rolls Royce until the end of November, preventing the 354th Fighter Group from flying its first combat mission with the P-51B-1 (not yet retrofitted with the 85 gal tank) until December 1.


< Message edited by bomccarthy -- 2/6/2018 10:47:33 PM >

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RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 2/7/2018 8:30:46 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Thx for the link, will work through it.

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RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 2/7/2018 7:55:20 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 414
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
Status: offline 		One suggestion to consider is eliminating the P-51B-1 entirely. Have the 354th FG arrive in the first week of December 1943 with P-51B-10s and have P-51B-10 production be available to units beginning in January 1944. Because of the significant engine problems that RR didn't resolve until the end of November, the 354th FG couldn't fly any combat missions until December and no other units flew combat missions with the P-51B until January. I believe that at the end of January, only two groups (including the 354th) had P-51Bs and at the end of February only 3 groups had them. Having only one green unit with the long-range P-51B in December won't make a huge difference.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 5
RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 4/6/2018 6:16:48 PM   
rjs28023


Posts: 5175
Joined: 9/5/2012
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

One suggestion to consider is eliminating the P-51B-1 entirely. Have the 354th FG arrive in the first week of December 1943 with P-51B-10s and have P-51B-10 production be available to units beginning in January 1944. Because of the significant engine problems that RR didn't resolve until the end of November, the 354th FG couldn't fly any combat missions until December and no other units flew combat missions with the P-51B until January. I believe that at the end of January, only two groups (including the 354th) had P-51Bs and at the end of February only 3 groups had them. Having only one green unit with the long-range P-51B in December won't make a huge difference.

quote:

I believe that at the end of January, only two groups (including the 354th) had P-51Bs and at the end of February only 3 groups had them. Having only one green unit with the long-range P-51B in December won't make a huge difference.



That is correct. The 354th "Pioneer Mustang Group" was the first one with the P-51B. The second FG was the 357th, and the third one was the 363rd FG.

I like the idea of elimating the P-51B-1 if Denniss cannot find a way to convert to the B-10 with the additional fuselage tank.

The P-51B-1 doesn't even get the two 75 gallon drop tank option until December 1943 anyway. At least in WitW.


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Randy

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RE: Aircraft upgrades - do P-51B-1s in the pool convert... - 4/11/2018 12:01:53 PM   
soeren01

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		In my next game i'll try importing some P-51B-1 to P-51B-10 to simulate the field conversion.

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soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
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(in reply to rjs28023)
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