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Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 6:48:22 PM

rsallen64

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/15/2009
From: Olympia, WA
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I am trying to load a single Tanker with Oil in Los Angeles for transport to Melbourne and nothing is happening for several turns. The Tanker can load about 14k of oil, there is about 45k of at the base, and the TF is docked. Outside of the tanker, I have a DD in the TF. I know that some say there is no point in shipping oil, but I want to load up on oil in Melbourne so I don't have to worry about it for a while, and as I play through my first GC I am trying to work out all the logistics issues I can. Is there any reason why, after about 5 turns or so, no oil is loading? I read through what I could find on loading with TFs, port capacity, etc., but I can't find an explanation.

Thanks for your help!

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 6:50:46 PM

Alfred

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There is no surplus oil in Los Angeles.

Search the forum, there are many threads which explain this in detail.

Alfred

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Post #: 2

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 7:32:59 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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Turn off the refinery for however many turns you wish. Then you can load your oil as a surplus will develop....GP

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Post #: 3

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 7:42:27 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64

I am trying to load a single Tanker with Oil in Los Angeles for transport to Melbourne and nothing is happening for several turns. The Tanker can load about 14k of oil, there is about 45k of at the base, and the TF is docked. Outside of the tanker, I have a DD in the TF. I know that some say there is no point in shipping oil, but I want to load up on oil in Melbourne so I don't have to worry about it for a while, and as I play through my first GC I am trying to work out all the logistics issues I can. Is there any reason why, after about 5 turns or so, no oil is loading? I read through what I could find on loading with TFs, port capacity, etc., but I can't find an explanation.

Thanks for your help!

Hi rsallen64...

Stupid question (on my part), but you're specifically referring to 'oil' per se and not 'fuel' per se, right?

Oil doesn't need to be moved to Australia and there's not a surplus in Los Angeles. Fuel, however, is stored in abundance and it can be transported to Australia where it will be used to produce HI (Heavy Industry) points at HI centers there.

Sorry if I'm sounding silly, but some people confuse the two in this very complex game.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 10:00:06 PM

rsallen64

Posts: 172
Joined: 6/15/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

I did mean "oil" and not "fuel." I had assumed that the amount of oil there meant there was a surplus, but based on the replies, I am assuming that due to the amount of shipping coming in and out of that port, there is no surplus, so that's why I can't ship it. I had gotten a Tracker message saying the refinery in Melbourne was short of oil, and that's why I looked around for oil to ship. LA seemed to have the largest pool available. The Tracker message has gone away since then, but I wanted to skip a repeat of the same. I will just forget the attempt to ship oil to Melbourne based on the replies, as it doesn't seem worth the effort.

Gotta love this forum, though! Thanks for the help, and the quick replies.

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Post #: 5

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/6/2018 10:07:44 PM

alimentary

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64
I am assuming that due to the amount of shipping coming in and out of that port, there is no surplus, so that's why I can't ship it.

It is due to the refineries in Los Angeles using it all up.

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Post #: 6

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 12:03:59 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alimentary

quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64
I am assuming that due to the amount of shipping coming in and out of that port, there is no surplus, so that's why I can't ship it.

It is due to the refineries in Los Angeles using it all up.

Yes. And in this game fuel is not for vehicles and aircraft, it is used only by ships and Heavy Industry. The oil you are planning to move is only used by refineries to make fuel - no other purpose. So it makes more sense to ship plentiful fuel from the US to Oz than to ship oil which then has to be converted to fuel to be used anywhere. IME oil also seems to load and unload more slowly than fuel, so your tanker is tied up longer in these phases.

BTW, aircraft and vehicles get their fuel from "supply". It is just a game abstraction to avoid having to break "fuel" down into gasoline/avgas/bunker fuel and manage each of these separately.

You will also find that AK type cargo ships can carry fuel in their holds but at half capacity - presumably to simulate fuel in drums. This fuel cargo cannot be shared with other ships until it is unloaded at a base.

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Post #: 7

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 12:48:14 AM

GetAssista

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Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

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Post #: 8

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 1:10:30 AM

Treetop64

Posts: 926
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From: 519 Redwood City - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
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As others have mentioned, the supply of oil at LA is only just enough for use in its own refineries. The same is true for many other locations on the map regarding oil, fuel, and supply, so be sure to always check base requirements before assigning ships for pickups. LA will have more than enough fuel stored for delivery to other locations, however.

If you still want to send oil to OZ, and the Dutch East Indies are still relatively safe, there is plenty of it at Palambang and at the ports in eastern Borneo. Time to do this will be limited, as the Japanese will be quick to make life difficult in the DEI...

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 1:57:26 AM

Korvar

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Also, it is considered somewhat of a WitP:AE faux pas to ship oil/fuel in xAK/AK cargo ships, even though the game will allow you to do so at the 1/2 rate. It would be technically possible to do so via drum storage (or some other form of containerized storage); however, there wouldn't be enough drums/containers in existence at the time to accomplish this on a large scale. Bottom line, you can do what you want (esp. against the AI), but it's probably a conversation you'll want to have with any future human opponents.

Consider using the 'Industry' screen in Tracker (a 3rd party database utility/application) to track the aggregate amount of supplies and fuel in various regions. You can turn off heavy industries in Australia (or elsewhere) if you happen to have an abundance of supplies there but a relative lack of fuel. That will help you balance resources while you get your convoy system sorted.

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Post #: 10

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 12:33:07 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Also, it is considered somewhat of a WitP:AE faux pas to ship oil/fuel in xAK/AK cargo ships, even though the game will allow you to do so at the 1/2 rate. It would be technically possible to do so via drum storage (or some other form of containerized storage); however, there wouldn't be enough drums/containers in existence at the time to accomplish this on a large scale. Bottom line, you can do what you want (esp. against the AI), but it's probably a conversation you'll want to have with any future human opponents.

Consider using the 'Industry' screen in Tracker (a 3rd party database utility/application) to track the aggregate amount of supplies and fuel in various regions. You can turn off heavy industries in Australia (or elsewhere) if you happen to have an abundance of supplies there but a relative lack of fuel. That will help you balance resources while you get your convoy system sorted.

I disagree with the idea that fuel should never be shipped on cargo vessels. Sure, loading up every cargo vessel you have would be unrealistic but a couple of xAKLs here and there to get fuel into small ports or dot bases should not be prohibited. I refer you to the movie "Mr. Roberts", where their cargo ship (about an xAKL as near as I can tell) had a complete load of drums when it was strafed by a Zeke. In the movie the fuel was gas, but that could have been for PT boats so shipping a little fuel in drums is not a big deal in game.

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Post #: 11

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 1:21:21 PM

MakeeLearn

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From
Pacific Counterblow
THE 11TH BOMBARDMENT GROUP AND THE 67TH FIGHTER SQUADRON IN THE BATTLE FOR GUADALCANAL

"The Navy had moved .50-caliber ammunition and 300,000 gallons of gasoline to Espiritu in preparation for the 11th. Fuel consumption had been estimated for 2 weeks of operations and a safety factor of 100 per cent allowed, but the supply was exhausted in 10 days and only the timely arrival of the Nira Luckenbach with 3,000 drums of gasoline prevented operations from coming to a sudden halt. Getting the fuel out of the drums and into the tanks of the B-17's was one of those impossible jobs which somehow got done. Gas trucks and trailers did not exist; the steel drums were dumped over the ship's side, floated ashore in nets, hand-rolled up under the trees, and dispersed in dumps of 20 to 30."

Wow, 1 ship...3,000 drums.

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Post #: 12

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 1:26:19 PM

HansBolter

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From: United States
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A while back when the same misconception that there couldn't have been enough drums to make this happen surfaced some one posted a time period photo of a stockpile of what could only have been millions of 55 gallon drums. It was possible and it did happen.

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Post #: 13

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/7/2018 1:58:41 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Also, it is considered somewhat of a WitP:AE faux pas to ship oil/fuel in xAK/AK cargo ships, even though the game will allow you to do so at the 1/2 rate. It would be technically possible to do so via drum storage (or some other form of containerized storage); however, there wouldn't be enough drums/containers in existence at the time to accomplish this on a large scale. Bottom line, you can do what you want (esp. against the AI), but it's probably a conversation you'll want to have with any future human opponents.

Consider using the 'Industry' screen in Tracker (a 3rd party database utility/application) to track the aggregate amount of supplies and fuel in various regions. You can turn off heavy industries in Australia (or elsewhere) if you happen to have an abundance of supplies there but a relative lack of fuel. That will help you balance resources while you get your convoy system sorted.

I disagree with the idea that fuel should never be shipped on cargo vessels. Sure, loading up every cargo vessel you have would be unrealistic but a couple of xAKLs here and there to get fuel into small ports or dot bases should not be prohibited. I refer you to the movie "Mr. Roberts", where their cargo ship (about an xAKL as near as I can tell) had a complete load of drums when it was strafed by a Zeke. In the movie the fuel was gas, but that could have been for PT boats so shipping a little fuel in drums is not a big deal in game.

Yes, instead of a complete ban on fuel in xAKs, you can allow to move fuel by xAKLs as an exception. That is as far as I would go myself.

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Post #: 14

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/8/2018 5:29:50 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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OK. To the ops question I would just like to add the following for some possible clarity.

In a base with a refinery it gets 'priority' for oil at the base. In addition such base will 'attempt' to maintani a minimal amout of oil for the refinerey and will not allow you to load oil below that level. Therefore even as you may see there'e oil at the base it will not load onto the TK.

Now as others have said you really don't need to load oil for OZ as it doesn't matter if the refineries there are supplied or not, as long as you ship fuel. For me I'd probably ship some oil there, but that's just me. Its just a reality type thing if you will. A matter of personal preference. To do this, as said above just turn off the refinery for a day or two. Either way it won't matter to the Allies. JMHO. YMMV.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/8/2018 10:01:42 PM

crsutton

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In short, it makes no sense at all to send oil to Australia. Why not just load up fuel which can both run Australian industry without having to refine it, and run your ships? A tanker load of oil is just a wasted tanker.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 5:22:13 AM

Yaab

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From: Poland
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Take the smallest AO/TK available and park it in Abadan to slowly suck its oil (50 daily surplus), then ship the oil to Australia.

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Post #: 17

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 6:01:28 AM

Chris21wen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Take the smallest AO/TK available and park it in Abadan to slowly suck its oil (50 daily surplus), then ship the oil to Australia.

Alternatively ship as much oil as you can from the DEI then just ship fuel when the DEI falls.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 6:11:40 AM

Chris21wen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 9:27:59 AM

Yaab

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From: Poland
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There is also Boela and Babo in DEI that have some free oil.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 2:50:06 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

Not all scenarios use that model of supply production at refineries.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 3:11:11 PM

BillBrown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

I know of no scenario that this is true.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 3:18:12 PM

crsutton

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Yes, as far as I know this has been patched out. Not sure if it is still in the stock scenarios. I can't think of any mod that still has oil production creating supply.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 3:23:56 PM

BillBrown

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Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 6:50:25 PM

rsallen64

Posts: 172
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From: Olympia, WA
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As many have mentioned, I do not see the point (at this point) of shipping any oil to Oz. I have, and still do, make regular tanker runs from the WC of the US to Oz with fuel. The DEI is still holding out is some places (May '42, Batavia, Palembang, Soerebaja), but the rest is all AI captured and what is still holding out is covered by ships and LBA, so it's much too dangerous to move oil from there. I also move fuel in tankers from Abadan regularly as well.

My only goal was to keep the refinery in Melbourne running in top condition after getting a Tracker notice that it was short of oil. It is not now, so the point is largely moot. I was attempting to get a handle on the logistics, but it seems that I am doing fine because at this point no base is short on supplies and everything seems to be flowing ok.

I did read the threads about shipping oil and fuel on xAKs and xAKLs so was aware of that, but I missed the bit about the refinery requirements in LA, so thanks for that. That's what's so great about this forum: there's always bits of information that comes to you in response to a question, and it usually comes fast, and often times it's not what you were expecting. Thanks again, all!

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/9/2018 8:30:57 PM

anarchyintheuk

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There is a small oil deficit vis a vis refining capacity in Australia (at least in stock), hence the point of shipping oil there. For the ocd types amongst us this is an issue. It's easier to load up DEI oil and transport it from there than from the US. If you don't get enough out of the DEI before it's conquered, you can always load an occasional tk from Abadan w/ the surplus there.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/11/2018 5:40:58 PM

Macclan5

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From: Toronto Canada
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Minority Report :

I do not necessarily disagree with most of the points made in this thread.

Especially and I note: it is more efficient to ship fuel than oil to Australia. Quicker load time, easier access at ports in Continental USA and India / Capetown / Med.

However I will only note:

During 1942 and early 1943 : While it may be less efficient - shipping 50M or 100M oil from Madras (for example) with a couple / few low endurance tankers (range 8800) and a British KV (or 2) to Perth helps smooth out fuel delivery to Australia. You can use low risk shipping way points well west of the Coco Islands much like your Capetown routes to Perth or Adelaide.

In stock:

1) Oil is created at Ledo surplus
2) You can pump a few extra gallons into India with 1 low value tanker - infrequent and not a loss of productivity.
3) You can create "demand" at Madras which is usually developed as a significant port

and

4) It is easy to run Capetown dry of fuel in 1942 1943 running to Perth
5) While you can run fuel from East USA to Capetown - it is a time consuming process in itself
6) While you can run fuel to India and then hub and spoke to Perth from an India port - it requires double loading / unloading.

A few 1000 of oil to Australia : (i) from DEI as you pull out and (ii) from India will create a surplus in Sydney that lasts a number of months. That oil (plus resources) will be converted to fuel (and supply) over time...as I recall Melbourne and Sydney burn 6900 (demand) a month or do.

Which in summary is just a method 'smooth out' the gaps between massive tanker convoys that take time to load / wait / divert.

Very little investment for always having fuel for your surface task forces near "Townsville" for example.

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RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/11/2018 7:38:00 PM

BBfanboy

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Not sure what you meant about "(plus resources)"- there are no resources used in conversion of oil to fuel. Did you mean plus refineries (a necessary asset for the conversion) or just compress the chain Oil->Fuel-> (HI + Resources + Fuel) = Supply a bit? [ I know there are also HI points produced but the Allies basically can't use them].

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Post #: 28

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/11/2018 9:08:50 PM

Dili

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

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Post #: 29

RE: Loading Oil problem? - 4/11/2018 9:22:17 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

Why would you want to? If you want a mod, get a mod.

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Post #: 30

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Loading Oil problem?