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RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW)

 
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RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/8/2018 11:48:33 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 103
20th October 1943

The Allies try the kitchen sink approach and target two hexes - one on each coast - the 78th Division lead the west coast attack and the 3rd US Division do the same on the other side of the Peninuslar.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 241
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/8/2018 11:56:48 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 103
20th October 1943

I continue to struggle with this game - and frankly I have no idea what to do. The predictions for the attack were good, the artillery and air in place meant that the Axis would surely be in trouble. The result? The British lost over 300 infantry squads and an entire brigade was evaporated - the Germans lost a sixth of that number. The US lost 80 in return for 5 of the enemy....

Ho hum...

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 242
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/9/2018 12:00:53 AM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		I don't mean any disrespect to the scenario designer and you are grimly hanging in there, but, I have to say that reading both your AAR and Larry's on the same topic I am underwhelmed by this scenario and its verisimilitude. I could never create anything half as good but it seems to need some major tweaking because it seems that the allies are doomed to slog their way up the narrow toe of Italy in poor supply taking Omdermum type losses. Maybe we're all missing something obvious, but I don't see it.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 243
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/9/2018 4:05:45 AM   
DanNeely

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I don't mean any disrespect to the scenario designer and you are grimly hanging in there, but, I have to say that reading both your AAR and Larry's on the same topic I am underwhelmed by this scenario and its verisimilitude. I could never create anything half as good but it seems to need some major tweaking because it seems that the allies are doomed to slog their way up the narrow toe of Italy in poor supply taking Omdermum type losses. Maybe we're all missing something obvious, but I don't see it.


The allies are free to make their initial landing farther north. The italian campaign was a slow bloody slog north though historically,

_____________________________

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man ... weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not [it] an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 244
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/9/2018 6:59:23 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanNeely


quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

I don't mean any disrespect to the scenario designer and you are grimly hanging in there, but, I have to say that reading both your AAR and Larry's on the same topic I am underwhelmed by this scenario and its verisimilitude. I could never create anything half as good but it seems to need some major tweaking because it seems that the allies are doomed to slog their way up the narrow toe of Italy in poor supply taking Omdermum type losses. Maybe we're all missing something obvious, but I don't see it.


The allies are free to make their initial landing farther north. The italian campaign was a slow bloody slog north though historically,
warspite1

Well I've said I won't be looking at the other STBP threads in fairness to devoncop so I've no idea what is going on there - but I guess John B. you are suggesting my problems are not unique.

From my perspective - and it is only one game - I just don't see what the Allies can do. Every single hex taken is massively expense - hundreds of infantry squads, tanks, guns etc being lost. The Germans are great quality, have so many units and of course the terrain is awful. Yes Italy was a slog, but this feels impossible.

Yes the Allies can try and land further north, but given what happened to my earlier amphib effort, I think the danger of not landing, or not landing in numbers is too great. Even if landed, given what I've seen, how do the Allies expand the bridgehead without creating massive stacks that are obliterated by artillery?

I landed where I did because at least it afforded me air cover and a short sea journey. You may recall what happened to my transports - and their cargo - when I tried a re-supply mission using a more distant port - imagine trying to reinforce say Salerno!

I'll keep plugging away but its all seems a bit impossible at present.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to DanNeely)
Post #: 245
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/9/2018 12:08:23 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		@ Dan Neely, I think you're 100% right, with the exception of the romp up the southern part of Italy by Monty in 43, Clark's breakout in May of 44 and overrunning the Po Valley in April 45 Italy was a slog. But, in two games with good players (not trying to give too much away to Warspite) no one has taken Naples and the other game is several months ahead of this one. The German players are playing very good games so taking nothing away from them and, again, the scenario designer does work I could never do.

But, for some reason the Luftwaffe seems to be too potent in stopping invasions within allied air cover. I could understand it if you tried to invade Genoa in 1943 but it seems that the allies are basically forced to cross at the Messena straits and slog their way north the very long way to just get to where the campaign started historically.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 246
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/11/2018 3:10:51 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 104 - 108
20th - 25th October 1943

Not sure what happened there exactly. Anyway we seem to be at turn 108 and I've got nothing written or saved for the last 5 turns....

Anyway, not to worry, the situation remains the same. German bombardments generally cost me double-digit casualties, whereas I can only inflict largely single digit upon the enemy. The cost of any attack is very heavy and I continue to get units - brigade and regiment size - evaporate; the latest being the from the 92nd....

Still at least the US forces have pushed the Germans back a little on the east coast and I hope to keep up that momentum.


I don't know how far I'll get before exhaustion (or a bodily shortage of troops) steps in - but if they can keep going this will hopefully relieve the pressure on the British who have lost more men in the last couple of months than in the whole of WWI....



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/11/2018 3:26:56 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 247
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 4:40:23 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 109 - Axis Turn
26th October 1943

The farcial(?) rate of loss for the Allies continues. Four bombardments - four double digit losses. Two hexes targeted and two hexes mullered. Obviously the large stacks doesn't help but as mentioned previously, to attack the Germans requires large stacks and the terrain does not assist a more measured approach - even if it were possible.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/15/2018 4:42:38 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 248
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 5:24:32 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 109
26th October 1943

Some success at last.

On the east coast the US forces begin to push back the Germans and inflict some losses on them - albeit the cost to the Allies remains higher.

The British concentrated largely on just one hex with their artillery and I'm hoping the Germans will need to react in the east - allowing the British to push on up the coast road.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/15/2018 5:26:59 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 249
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 5:40:27 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		WT....???

I've just gone into the game (to see if CFNA is back in my inbox and.....

....this game's last turn hasn't happened???? How is that possible?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 250
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 6:04:07 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		So I re-ran the turn as best I could - no surprises for guessing the turn wasn't as good - more losses and less ground made up

Very. Very. Disappointing.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 251
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 9:30:03 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 110
27th October 1943

The Axis continue to hammer away with their artillery. I have no choice but to try and continue the American advance (despite a lot of air and land units undergoing reorganisation) - the 36th and 92nd Division (supported by army reserves) in the east and 3rd and 45th Divisions in the centre and the 45th Division in the west. The British maintain their bombardments on the coast.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/15/2018 9:32:33 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 252
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 9:37:43 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 110
27th October 1943

After just one round.... Thanks That was a real shame as once again the Germans were pushed back. I was hoping for a crack at the lone panzer unit on the coast road.....




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 253
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 4:32:31 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 111
28th October 1943

The German artillery continue to punish the Allies. An air attack on the east coast proves costly for the Luftwaffe with 48 aircraft lost (16 destroyed) compared to the Allies 12 lost (4 destroyed). However the bombers were able to drop their load - costing 29 infantry squads and 36 artillery pieces amongst the casualties.

The Luftwaffe tried the same again on the west coast and - once again - the British have been hammered, losing 60 infantry squads. Bizarrely only 1 Spitfire was downed (0 destroyed) while the Germans lost 32 bombers (7 destroyed).

Two more bombardments - from artillery this time cost the US forces much lighter casualties but the British continue to be hard hit....



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/15/2018 5:00:21 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 254
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 4:37:03 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 111
28th October 1943

Not sure why but the British 56th Division units which landed on Corsica are out of supply???? Two ports in the south are controlled by the British so I'm not sure what the issue is.....

The Allies offensive action is poor this turn. The Americans fail to make any ground - although at least force some enemy units to retreat. The British gain one hex but then run into a panzer wall than removes a large number of infantry from this mortal coil....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/15/2018 5:10:18 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 255
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 4:45:21 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 111
28th October 1943

Not sure why but the British 56th Division units which landed on Corsica are out of supply???? Two ports in the south are controlled by the British so I'm not sure what the issue is.....

Bonaparte's revenge?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 256
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/15/2018 5:09:37 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 111
28th October 1943

Not sure why but the British 56th Division units which landed on Corsica are out of supply???? Two ports in the south are controlled by the British so I'm not sure what the issue is.....

Bonaparte's revenge?
warspite1

Probably.....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 257
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 6:14:36 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

The Axis settle for four bombardments once again - two each against the CW and US. The damage was single digits - 8% - for two of the barrages and no damage on the other two.

The forces on Corsica remain out of supply but there doesn't appear to be any enemy on the island. The 168th Brigade will shortly be taking Ajaccio and the 169th Brigade is near Bastia so maybe they will make a difference....




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 258
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 6:21:32 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

The Allies try and keep the pressure on. To lessen the risk of proficiency failure I don't undertake a preliminary barrage but head straight into battle.....

All attacks are predicted as 'Excellent' except the British attack on the extreme left which is marked as 'Good' and so has a ton of air and artillery support.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/16/2018 6:34:49 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 259
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 6:39:35 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

The attack by the composite force pushes back the German Sturmgeschutz battalion - albeit at the expected heavy loss in infantry. The German battalion loses most of its remaining tanks but still have 3/4 of its self propelled guns intact.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 260
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 6:45:34 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

On the east coast the 103rd Panzer Battalion, with its 38 self-propelled guns - is wiped out. The American forces take the expected large hit in infantry - 38 infantry squads - but lose only 4 tanks and 7 field guns.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 261
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 7:01:30 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

'Excellent' attack? The attack in the US centre was against a single German machine gun battalion. Yes they had support from two artillery regiments. But facing this battalion of infantry were 6 US regiments, tank battalions, artillery and air power. Losses for the Germans were 4 rifle squads, 28 machine guns, 3 mortars, 9 trucks and 2 armoured cars. The US forces lost 298 infantry squads, 55 anti-tank squads, almost 200 machine guns, 68 field artillery pieces, 150 mortars, 49 AA pieces, 284 trucks, 183 soft-skin vehicles and even 6 aircraft. Quite what shot down those 6 aircraft can only be guessed at....

The last US attack also resulted in the German panzergrenadier defenders being pushed back, and at least this time the losses were a little less extreme - the US attackers only losing about four times more men and equipment than the Germans.


Attack in the Centre



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/16/2018 7:05:51 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 262
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 7:14:24 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

The final attack was actually something of a pleasant surprise. The main British losses were 46 infantry and engineer squads, 14 tanks and 2 aircraft (weirdly no AT guns at all). I say weirdly because the Germans lost 58 of 139 tanks and self-propelled guns..... Never mind! I'll take that - 4th Armoured Brigade advances into the vacated area.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 263
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 7:29:54 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

With the losses suffered by the US I decide not to attack again. Instead I concentrate on pushing units into positions for attacks next turn.

I look to the CW to keep up momentum instead. I could try and attack the Germans on the coast - but instead I am going to try and attack the units to their rear. The prediction is 'Excellent' and there is an opportunity of cutting off a bunch of Germans.... All artillery and air support possible is directed to assist the attack...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 264
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 7:50:13 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

The attack is successful and 4th Armoured Brigade forces a breach in the German lines, cutting off units from the 65th Infantry and the 15th Panzergrenadier divisions.

4th Armoured's readiness is much reduced but pleasingly the units has most of its equipment in place.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 265
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 7:54:56 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

Attention now turns to the German units cut-off....

The British forces manage to destroy all three units netting a decent bag of men and material. The only down side was that it was 4th Armoured that advanced into the hex - giving the Germans the chance to straighten their lines.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/16/2018 8:03:05 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 266
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/16/2018 8:15:12 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 112
29th October 1943

That was a decent turn I think. Although the US attack in the east was stalled after the first round, their artillery pounded away at one of two large stacks near the coast. This should help with the follow-up next turn.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 267
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/17/2018 5:57:25 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 113
30th October 1943

The German artillery finds its range once more and inflicts double digit losses.

In reply I manage to make some progress with the US forces on the east coast - although annoyingly I have no pictures or stats of the action

I also see that there were a number of airstrikes on the enemy (although could not tell where or of course what the damage was... or what it cost me in aircraft etc).

So I feel there is progress continuing to be made here - albeit very slow and very costly.

Meanwhile, back at Corsicasville, the British units on the island remain out of supply.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 268
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/17/2018 6:40:37 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 114
31st October 1943

Two bombardments from the Germans this time. That against the British cost 8% losses, but the Americans were hit with a 20%+ that wiped out over a third of their infantry squads in one hex....

More annoying though is the lack of engagement. All German units were able to disengage from the hex (circled) despite the presence of the Allied artillery....




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 269
RE: STBP 1943-45 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 4/17/2018 6:45:24 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 114
31st October 1943

Mmmm Maybe it was the capital? or maybe a coincidence, but having taken Bastia all my forces in Corsica are now in supply and are simply mopping up the island to ensure there are no German stragglers and that all airfields are in Allied hands.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 270
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