RE: Notes from a Small Island

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Notes from a Small Island

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Notes from a Small Island

Page: << < prev 24 25 [26] 27 28 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 12:15:55 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/6/44

Battle of Shikuka: Totally quiet day; no enemy air, sub or naval attacks. A day for the Allied air force fighters to come back online, recovering from that bombardment on the 1st. I'm pulling each bomber that comes online out.

Whither Erik? He's got me by the short hairs; he was just a hair from overwhelming my defenses; we both took heavy losses; the kindest, most helpful thing he could do to me is call the op off. He's not given to kindness to his enemy, nor of pulling his foot off the gas peddle. He'll be coming back with everything.

There is a chance, though, that he took enough damage that he doesn't want to lose more. That's my fondest hope.

But the days remaining until the CVEs complete their upgrades is dwindling - slowly but steadily.

Having the Allied carriers on scene won't guarantee anything. In the first place, Erik has plenty of LBA and I've lost alot of the 4EB I was counting on to suppress them. In the second, getting Death Star into the Sea of Okhtosk will require alot of thought and some risk - narrow passages, mines, subs, shore guns, combat ships, etc. I think I have a handle on how to deal with that. And I think the number of subs, DDs, CLs, and riff-raff that Eric lost means something in that particular equation.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 751

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 12:22:33 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/6/44

Accidental War: Erik dropped some shore guns on this nameless, faceless island. Is it Japanese territory, as I assumed...or not? If it's Japanese territory, why did landing guns on his own island trigger messages in the Combat Report?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 752

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 12:31:54 AM

BillBrown

Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

That island is country code 100, so it is Japanese, not Soviet. The guns should fire at TFs passing through the hex. I don't know why you got
messages in your combat Report, probably because there is no base there.

Since there is a rail line between Toyohara and Shikuka I would guess he was trying to sever it so you could not rail your damaged aircraft
from Shikuka to Toyohara. You could not move them so they had to endure a second day of possible Naval Bombardment.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 753

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 1:06:10 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Thanks, Bill, for the country code info.

Regarding the SHikuka to Toyohara line, that was my first guess (railing aircraft). But he's still paying the space attention, making me wonder if he didn't have bigger plans. Landing a detachment would've severed overland supply flow would make Toyohara much more vulnerable.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 754

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 1:21:17 AM

BillBrown

Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

I assume that when you say he is paying attention that you are seeing Recon aircraft over those hexes. He could be like some of us and forgets to re-purpose them, or
he has no other place to sent them and they gain experience reconing a non CAPed hex.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 755

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 1:25:06 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

On the turn of the 5th, he had Zero fighters ground attack two of the hexes. It's possible that he hoped to draw and shoot down LRCAP, but it seems more likely that he was trying to identify the units via Combat Report.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 756

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 4:28:37 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

9/4/44

RO-110: He's losing a lot of subs, mostly to mines but also some to ASW TFs, plus a couple to USN sub attacks.

I think Erik still has a ton of subs left, but this battle is reducing the muster roll in a measurable way. Erik is very good with subs vs. combat ships and carriers, so the attrition may prove useful later.

It's only been a little over a week in my game with him, but he's being very aggressive with the USN subs in that game, too. It would just seem to be his style (throwing all assets into the fray). Hopefully the ASW air umbrella is making them unhappy.

For the IJN, there aren't actually that many subs. At least as far as capable subs are concerned. Many of the late-war builds have smaller and fewer torpedoes, as well as crappy range (and I think terrible fuel economy).

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 757

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 4:30:42 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Landings at non-base hexes always trigger something (usually very embarrassing) in the combat report.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 758

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 7:10:33 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Thanks for the info, gents. I always read what you guys write.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 759

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 7:15:12 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/7/44

NoPac: A post of a non-annotated map, just for the sake of clarity. An annotated map to follow in the next post.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 760

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 7:29:03 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/7/44

Annotated Map: For your viewing pleasure.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/30/2018 7:42:17 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 761

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 7:36:01 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

The top is cut off...

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 762

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 7:43:43 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Well, I fixed it. Quit grumbling. I've already served you well by providing timely and pithy information about the great egrets of North America.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 763

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 4/30/2018 8:58:24 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Upon reconsideration they ain't so great, they're just average.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 764

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 1:09:03 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/8/44

Battle of Shikuka: The peaceful interlude ends; hope fades; I gird up my loins; from whence shall my help come?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 765

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 1:56:16 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Even though it is not realistic, you always see engagement of mine fields in the combat report. Even sweeping of mines. If you haven't seen it, it hasn't happened.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 766

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:17:38 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Questions: Bombers set to range 0 will fly vs. targets in their hex? Fighters set to escort range 0 will escort within that hex?

I'm sure the answers are "Yes," but every time I answer sensibly, Alfred ends up pointing out things that make me feel ignorant, foolish, and unworthy.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 767

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:20:42 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/8/44

CVEs: Given my current perilous state, each day feels like it's measured in dog years.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 768

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:25:58 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

9/4/449/4/

BB Pennsylvania: The AI seems unusually non-bullish on how long the war is going to take.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 769

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:53:46 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Questions: Bombers set to range 0 will fly vs. targets in their hex? Fighters set to escort range 0 will escort within that hex?

I'm sure the answers are "Yes," but every time I answer sensibly, Alfred ends up pointing out things that make me feel ignorant, foolish, and unworthy.

Definitely yes.

I'd guess a typo on the BB PA upgrade, but man is that punitive.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 770

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 11:07:45 AM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline

range zero still has me confused. I am given to thinking the range of zero will only
work over that airfield only on defense, ergo will not CAP the port etc.. On offense
I am completely confused on this. Lokasenna, you sure on that??

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 771

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 12:04:24 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

Been thinking a lot over the past few days about the weak points of the operation and what lessons can be learned.

Not sure if I am correct, but I believe Toyahara is on the west side of the island and the route to it from Shikuka runs dangerously close to Wakkanai and many large IJ air bases.

A secondary port for TFs to run to replenish seems essential. I'm thinking that a port in the Kuriles is really necessary since Toyahara really doesn't fill the need.

I also wonder at the need to keep the B29s holding at a coastal base vulnerable to bombardment when they weren't doing much.
B29s have an incredible transfer range. They could have been pulled out when the carriers left and returned when the opportunity for use presented itself.
Yes the transfers create hardship as fragments get left behind and it can take several days to fully reassemble squadrons, but did that seems minor in comparison to the risk of loss to bombardment.

As soon as the American carriers were forced off station the opportunity for bombardment opened up. I'm thinking that at that point all non-anti nav bombers should have been pulled out as well.

Not every Japanese player is going to go all in the way that Obvert has, but his doing so highlights the operations weak points.
It's worth study and discussion in my mind.
I'm not doing this to trash Dan by pointing out his mistakes, but pushing for an open analysis we all can learn from.

The two major weak points I see are the lack of a secondary port for replenishment and succor and the retention of a vulnerable, valuable asset on site that was mostly just in a holding pattern.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/1/2018 12:05:43 PM >

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 772

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 12:47:57 PM

BillBrown

Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

Toyohara can only be entered by ships from the NE and E hexsides.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 773

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 1:18:11 PM

MakeeLearn

Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Been thinking a lot over the past few days about the weak points of the operation and what lessons can be learned.

Not sure if I am correct, but I believe Toyahara is on the west side of the island and the route to it from Shikuka runs dangerously close to Wakkanai and many large IJ air bases.

A secondary port for TFs to run to replenish seems essential. I'm thinking that a port in the Kuriles is really necessary since Toyahara really doesn't fill the need.

I also wonder at the need to keep the B29s holding at a coastal base vulnerable to bombardment when they weren't doing much.
B29s have an incredible transfer range. They could have been pulled out when the carriers left and returned when the opportunity for use presented itself.
Yes the transfers create hardship as fragments get left behind and it can take several days to fully reassemble squadrons, but did that seems minor in comparison to the risk of loss to bombardment.

As soon as the American carriers were forced off station the opportunity for bombardment opened up. I'm thinking that at that point all non-anti nav bombers should have been pulled out as well.

Not every Japanese player is going to go all in the way that Obvert has, but his doing so highlights the operations weak points.
It's worth study and discussion in my mind.
I'm not doing this to trash Dan by pointing out his mistakes, but pushing for an open analysis we all can learn from.

The two major weak points I see are the lack of a secondary port for replenishment and succor and the retention of a vulnerable, valuable asset on site that was mostly just in a holding pattern.

The enemy was left across the lines of communication, one or two of the Kurile Islands should have been taken. This can slow your offensive momentum or even reverse it.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 774

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 1:37:46 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Toyohara can only be entered by ships from the NE and E hexsides.

Then couldn't it have served as a secondary re-armament port? When his depleted ships were blocked from re-entry by the masses of enemy TFs, having Toyahara as an alternative would have helped.

However, Toyahara is in easy bombardment range of the Home Fleet, so a port in the Kuriles would still have been a better option for secondary replenishment.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 775

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:00:22 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

It's too early for a post-mortem, though not too early to learn lessons.

The first things that's necessary in the analysis of where I am is how I got here. I think some of the comments indicate that readers weren't following as this operation unfolded - for instance, the unawareness that the Kuriles were (and still are) targets, but that the carrier battle re-shaped everything, forcing some radical changes.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 776

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:17:03 PM

MakeeLearn

Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's too early for a post-mortem, though not too early to learn lessons.

The first things that's necessary in the analysis of where I am is how I got here. I think some of the comments indicate that readers weren't following as this operation unfolded - for instance, the unawareness that the Kuriles were (and still are) targets, but that the carrier battle re-shaped everything, forcing some radical changes.

Not at all. Was not a critique of your strategy. Only as how things are in the present state. Like energy in a chemical process the pathway does not matter only the beginning and end states. Regardless of who, how, when... the enemy has presence across lines of communications. While not a major threat itself, it can influence actions in other areas.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/1/2018 2:24:09 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 777

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:33:49 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I wasn't referring to your comments in particular, MakeeLearn. There have been a number of comments made suggesting that the readers are newcomers, or relatively so, that aren't aware of how things unfolded.

But this isn't a chemical process. The unfolding of things shapes the end results in ways that are totally unpredictable, ensuring that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

That's what happened here. The operation was massive and pretty well-thought-out, IMO. But I missed some things. Then other things I had to abandon.

For those who are new, here's a brief synopsis. After the successful invasion of Sikhalin, which was massive and pretty successful, I detached about 40% of my empties to make the trip back to the Aleutians. Death Star was to escort them to just beyond the Kuriles. If no opposition was encountered, the merchants would detach and steam ahead while DS would return to Shikuka. On the turn that DS and the Herd exited past the Kuriles, the great carrier battle took place, leaving me with a bunch of damaged carriers, including two that were crippled and seemed almost certainly gonners. DS was beat up, hobbled by cripples, and exposed to utter destruction. So I had to drop everything to pull the ships together and try to get them to safety. Somehow it worked beyond my wildest dreams. All the carriers made it (and all but one will be online in 2.5 weeks, the other needs another 50 days).

So instead of having DS at Shikuka, primed to lead the invasions of the Kuriles, the Shikuka was left under-protected by a relatively modest force of combat ships. The invasions in the Kuriles were postponed until the carriers could be repaired.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 778

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:48:43 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
But this isn't a chemical process. The unfolding of things shapes the end results in ways that are totally unpredictable, ensuring that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

Of course no plan survives contact with the enemy [intact]. But a plan without significant deficits is likely to be able to withstand the vagaries of war better than one significant oversights. Your plan for a "kitchen sink" coup de main onto Sakhalin while forsaking the Kurile LOS noose (for now) was intentional. And risky-in its own way.

We don't yet know if you will be able to parlay your festung Sakhalin into an Allied abscess in the Japanese north. It may work out for you in the strategic or tactical sense. Certainly your OOB surfeit is in your favor. But the assumption that you could wait to take some or all of the Kuriles to secure your LOS has yet to be borne out.

I agree with MakeeLearn.

_____________________________

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 779

RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/1/2018 2:52:45 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The invasions in the Kuriles were postponed until the carriers could be repaired.

Wasn't it in your plan to wait for the invasion of the Kuriles until "later" anyways? Or are you saying that you only delayed the Kurile action until after the carriers sustained damage and you elected to fully repair them?

If you had intended to invade the Kuriles in a more timely fashion, what forces did you have earmarked in theater for such an action and what was your erstwhile timeline before sustaining carrier damage?

Edited: See the next post that further clarifies the second question. In any case, 'about 30 days' jump off for LCUs on Sakhalin to be used on the Kuriles was probably 'optimistic'.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 5/1/2018 3:06:37 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 780