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Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/5/2018 1:35:15 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		@CQ

Most of you here know I am cr*p at making maps. If not, now you know. I am looking for somebody who enjoys map making as much as I like the OOB and scenario research. There are so many interesting operations the French, FLN, etc. conducted in Algeria. One example would be this - 8 January 1960 Boufarik, Algeria/France where 340 men, 3 Co's, 3 RCP conducted a Search & Destroy mission.

Any volunteers for Algerian maps perhaps?

Klink, Oberst


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Post #: 1
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/5/2018 2:42:12 PM   
berto


Posts: 20708
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From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline
While everybody awaits the release of Vietnam (and beyond), it would be good to see CSME scenario development continue. Go for it!

< Message edited by berto -- 5/5/2018 2:44:30 PM >

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Post #: 2
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/5/2018 7:16:26 PM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

@CQ

Most of you here know I am cr*p at making maps. If not, now you know. I am looking for somebody who enjoys map making as much as I like the OOB and scenario research. There are so many interesting operations the French, FLN, etc. conducted in Algeria. One example would be this - 8 January 1960 Boufarik, Algeria/France where 340 men, 3 Co's, 3 RCP conducted a Search & Destroy mission.

Any volunteers for Algerian maps perhaps?

Klink, Oberst


Hi Oberst_klink

I can do for you if you want, However I dont have any reference material to work with.
Just PM me the Map area you need (image file) then I will proceed

Rgds

Christophe

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 3
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/6/2018 12:48:49 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SIPRES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

@CQ

Most of you here know I am cr*p at making maps. If not, now you know. I am looking for somebody who enjoys map making as much as I like the OOB and scenario research. There are so many interesting operations the French, FLN, etc. conducted in Algeria. One example would be this - 8 January 1960 Boufarik, Algeria/France where 340 men, 3 Co's, 3 RCP conducted a Search & Destroy mission.

Any volunteers for Algerian maps perhaps?

Klink, Oberst


Hi Oberst_klink

I can do for you if you want, However I dont have any reference material to work with.
Just PM me the Map area you need (image file) then I will proceed

Rgds

Christophe


Bon, merci!

I'll check my archives, see what area(s) I need (the maps don't have to be large) unless you got the time/drive for a master map.

Thanks again; appreciated!

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 4
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/6/2018 3:08:51 PM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: SIPRES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

@CQ

Most of you here know I am cr*p at making maps. If not, now you know. I am looking for somebody who enjoys map making as much as I like the OOB and scenario research. There are so many interesting operations the French, FLN, etc. conducted in Algeria. One example would be this - 8 January 1960 Boufarik, Algeria/France where 340 men, 3 Co's, 3 RCP conducted a Search & Destroy mission.

Any volunteers for Algerian maps perhaps?

Klink, Oberst


Hi Oberst_klink

I can do for you if you want, However I dont have any reference material to work with.
Just PM me the Map area you need (image file) then I will proceed

Rgds

Christophe


Bon, merci!

I'll check my archives, see what area(s) I need (the maps don't have to be large) unless you got the time/drive for a master map.

Thanks again; appreciated!

Klink, Oberst


uhm.. a master map for Algeria campaign will take months to do, I believe.
If you already think about a particular operation with a map lets say 40x40 or 50x50 then could be a good start.

Christophe



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Post #: 5
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/6/2018 3:37:04 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SIPRES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: SIPRES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

@CQ

Most of you here know I am cr*p at making maps. If not, now you know. I am looking for somebody who enjoys map making as much as I like the OOB and scenario research. There are so many interesting operations the French, FLN, etc. conducted in Algeria. One example would be this - 8 January 1960 Boufarik, Algeria/France where 340 men, 3 Co's, 3 RCP conducted a Search & Destroy mission.

Any volunteers for Algerian maps perhaps?

Klink, Oberst


Hi Oberst_klink

I can do for you if you want, However I dont have any reference material to work with.
Just PM me the Map area you need (image file) then I will proceed

Rgds

Christophe


Bon, merci!

I'll check my archives, see what area(s) I need (the maps don't have to be large) unless you got the time/drive for a master map.

Thanks again; appreciated!

Klink, Oberst


uhm.. a master map for Algeria campaign will take months to do, I believe.
If you already think about a particular operation with a map lets say 40x40 or 50x50 then could be a good start.

Christophe


No sweat, I was kidding. Here are some suggestions... hard to find any reference material really, and the maps I will have to check if I find French maps from the 1950s somehow...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agounennda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bouzegza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bab_El_Bekkouche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jumelles

Some locations are more or less obscure, and not many details. Worst case would be, that I base the scenarios loosely on the events. The area around Bouzegza would be interesting. I am not a fan of monster scenarios, but it would be interesting to see/simulate how some fights in the difficult terrain can be portrait with the CSME system.

A link to an overview map of various operations.

Klink, Oberst



< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 5/6/2018 3:38:43 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/6/2018 4:00:39 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		Algeria maps

Not the best scale to work with, but it's a good starting point.

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Post #: 7
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/6/2018 9:01:07 PM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline 		Here is a Actual Bouzegza area map.
I couldnt find a map from the 60's so far.

would it be ok as a starting base?






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/7/2018 8:08:52 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Christophe

looks fine to me; some nice terrain for ambushes, road clearing missions, as well as para drops. One thing...
The dam wasn't there in the 50/60s. So, it's basically an embankment with well, the usual desert terrain tiles.

Found another interesting set of battles... pity my French is merde, to be frank. The biggest problem I have is to dig out material from official sources.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_des_Fronti%C3%A8res_(guerre_d%27Alg%C3%A9rie)

This Wiki article has a map, too. but the OOB and so on is hard to get...

But yeah, a good map it would be.

Cordialement,

Klink, Oberst

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 5/7/2018 6:27:35 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/7/2018 7:45:50 PM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Christophe

looks fine to me; some nice terrain for ambushes, road clearing missions, as well as para drops. One thing...
The dam wasn't there in the 50/60s. So, it's basically an embankment with well, the usual desert terrain tiles.

Found another interesting set of battles... pity my French is merde, to be frank. The biggest problem I have is to dig out material from official sources.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_des_Fronti%C3%A8res_(guerre_d%27Alg%C3%A9rie)

This Wiki article has a map, too. but the OOB and so on is hard to get...

But yeah, a good map it would be.

Cordialement,

Klink, Oberst


Here is the same map with hex layer
The problem with war in Algeria is that its mainly small engagements/anbush, many of them. but not really a frontal assault between 2 sides.
I found also difficult to find detailed map or OOB. Maybe the data are still classified by French Army?

I let you know about Map progress (thanks for the Dam Highlight)
I was thinking to use a Mediterranean Map vs desert as it seems to be an area with some forest.

Christophe









Attachment (1)

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Post #: 10
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/7/2018 8:08:31 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Kewl!

And yes, there weren't any real large scale operations, but... as I have pointed out in one of my blog posts, you guys actually utilised helicopter operations nearly 10 years before the US Army implemented the AirCav concept in Vietnam. That's the interesting part of those small scale ops in Algeria.

For example, how this guy used an heli to direct his Regiment in combat and the use of H-34 helos to deploy Les paras quickly...

Anyway. I will try to build a nice scenario, perhaps variants, around the map when done.

Thanks again!

Klink, Oberst



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Post #: 11
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/12/2018 7:20:26 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Sneak Preview... still WIP

Merci, Christophe!

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 12
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/12/2018 1:20:26 PM   
Andrea G


Posts: 325
Joined: 10/9/2017
From: Genoa, Italy
Status: offline 		Can't wait to see your set of scenarios

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Post #: 13
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/12/2018 1:52:50 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrea G

Can't wait to see your set of scenarios

Ciao Andrea

I rely on map-makers :) Finding more detailed combat reports or OOB for those more 'obscure' encounters/fights in Algeria is a different matter. I'll to be as accurate as possible, given the circumstances. It will be interesting though to see how I can recreate the French's use of helicopters.

See one of my blog-posts here and how this guy employed them.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 14
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/13/2018 5:16:40 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Bouzegza 1957 Map, by Christophe! Merci, merci, merci!!!

Marvellous job and so perfect for ambushes, road clearing, search & destroy missions!

Now I have to dig into the event engine and the .lua *sigh*

Klink, Oberst




EDIT: Some recommended reads (in French though, but Auntie G00gle does a good job translating it...)

https://www.persee.fr/docAsPDF/rhmc_0048-8003_1999_num_46_2_1966.pdf
https://journals.openedition.org/rha/1863


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 5/13/2018 5:43:49 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 3:37:43 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Now the real headaches kick in... how to get detailed information? Gosh, and I thought the research for the hotchpotch German units for Kharkov '43 was a challenge!

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Bouzegza
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Bataille_de_Bouzegza

Sous les ordres du général Massu, accompagné des généraux Allard, Maisonrouge et Simon, les troupes du 2e escadron du 2e Régiment de Dragons, parachutés par des dizaines d’hélicoptères, se déploient sur terre par centaines, encerclant tous les massifs alentour.

So, the 2nd company was dropped by helicopters... probably not a para-drop but just airlifted... Now that's something...

How to get the info which heli units dumped them and how many platoons the 2e escadron had... sigh...

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 16
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 3:39:11 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

How to get the info which heli units dumped them and how many platoons the 2e escadron had... sigh...


You might be able to glean some of that information in "The First Helicopter War"

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Post #: 17
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 3:51:02 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

quote:

How to get the info which heli units dumped them and how many platoons the 2e escadron had... sigh...


You might be able to glean some of that information in "The First Helicopter War"

How forgetful I am... not looking at the documents I made available at the blog myself! LOL

Thanks, Jason!

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 5:10:57 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		No problem at all! It's a very interesting read!

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Post #: 19
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 7:07:42 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Interesting read, for sure... but getting more details. I am inclined to contact the 2e Regiment de Dragons PR officer to get some info about the official battle reports. Surely, after 60 years, they're no longer classified.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 9:16:30 PM   
Jason Petho


Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		A portal similar to the Vietnam archive for the French would be amazing.

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Post #: 21
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/14/2018 9:53:32 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

A portal similar to the Vietnam archive for the French would be amazing.

I will try to get in touch with the 2e Regiment de Dragons archive honchos somehow.

With my best French, of course...

Klink, Oberst



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Post #: 22
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/15/2018 5:03:18 AM   
Nicholas Bell

 

Posts: 549
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: Eagle River, Alaska
Status: offline 		You might check out the 1:50,000 scale topo maps of Algeria

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/algeria/

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Post #: 23
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/15/2018 10:45:27 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

You might check out the 1:50,000 scale topo maps of Algeria

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/algeria/

Appreciated Nick, ta!

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 24
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/15/2018 11:43:13 AM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

You might check out the 1:50,000 scale topo maps of Algeria

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/algeria/


Thanks Nicholas

"Palestro Sheet 43" is exactly the one we need.

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Post #: 25
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/15/2018 2:28:20 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		@CQ

Due to the surprisingly increased interest about The Algerian War 1954-1962, I perhaps should open a brand new thread to allow all of us to brainstorm some scenario ideas, reference material and all things related to the subject. What do you guys think about it?

EDIT: Been playing around with helicopters... Oued Fodda - Helicopter add-on :)

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 5/15/2018 4:29:06 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/16/2018 12:27:49 PM   
Andrea G


Posts: 325
Joined: 10/9/2017
From: Genoa, Italy
Status: offline 		Thank Oberst Klink, already scanned your blog and downloaded the "First Helicopter war"

I agree about a thread related to french "colonial" wars, I am doing a bit of research on the Tchad wars for a set of CMANO's scenarios.

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Post #: 27
RE: Map Making Enthusiast Required! - 5/16/2018 3:38:25 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Ciao Andrea!

Glad you appreciate the 'open source' studies and reference material I was able to find and post at the Hauptkampflinie ;)

I will create a specific War in Algeria 1954-1962 thread then. In case you find some material, in particular combat reports, OOBs, etc. feel free to share them, si?

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 28
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