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RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinking?!?!?!?

 
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RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:17:54 PM   
Kitakami


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Philippines:

Much air action, not much land action. Batan Island fell, as expected. Cotabato fell to an air assault. Besides that, this is the result of the air attacks:

Clark Field:

Japanese aircraft
***** A6M2 Zero x 81
***** G3M2 Nell x 27
***** G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
***** P-40B Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G3M2 Nell: 2 damaged
***** G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
***** G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
***** P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
***** P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
***** P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied ground losses:
***** 19 casualties reported
******** Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
******** Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
******** Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 43
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 75

Iba:

Japanese aircraft
***** A6M2 Zero x 9
***** G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
***** P-40E Warhawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
***** P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 53

Iba:

Japanese aircraft
***** G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
***** P-40E Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G4M1 Betty: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
***** P-40E Warhawk: 1 damaged

This second, unescorted Betty attack at Iba, at least, was a breath of fresh air. Not so much for the planes, but for the pilots lost.

Manila:

Japanese aircraft
***** G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
***** no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
***** PBY-4 Catalina: 41 damaged
***** PBY-4 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
***** P-40E Warhawk: 21 damaged
***** P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
***** SOC-1 Seagull: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 27
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 43

Clark Field:

***** G3M2 Nell x 27

Allied aircraft
***** P-40B Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
***** P-40B Warhawk: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 17

Manila:

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
***** A6M2 Zero x 55
***** B5N2 Kate x 59
***** D3A1 Val x 45

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
***** SS S-38, Bomb hits 2
***** AM Bittern, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
***** SS S-41, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
***** SS S-37, Bomb hits 2
***** SS Sealion, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
***** SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
***** PG Isabel, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
***** SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 1
***** SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
***** SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1
***** SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1
***** PG Tulsa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
***** SS S-40, Bomb hits 1
***** AO Trinity, Bomb hits 2, on fire
***** PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
***** SS Seal, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
***** AS Otus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
***** TK Manatawny, Bomb hits 1
***** xAP Candesa, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
***** xAP Elcano, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1

Lost SS-41, and 2x xAP. Could have been worse, submarine-wise.

All in all, a decent turn, with the exception of airfield damage. Iba: Service Damage 21, Runway Damage 46; Clark Field: Service Damage 70, Runway Damage 98; Manila: Service Damage 33, Runway Damage 43.

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Post #: 61
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:19:10 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
Well, the bad news isn't too bad, yet. I agree that your airframe losses are light, that will be useful, especially the Cats.

My fear is that there will be a second round, something I am not prepared for... but since I have no control over that, I need to think about things I CAN control, I guess :)


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Post #: 62
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:37:16 PM   
Kitakami


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Malaya:

These are the REALLY bad news. Not a turn one Mersing Gambit (TM), but close to it. Singapore might fall sooner that historical if I don't play this right (and even if I do).

Georgetown:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-27b Nate x 44

Allied aircraft
***** Blenheim IF x 6
***** Buffalo I x 12

Allied aircraft losses
***** Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

attack on TF, near Ulan Melintang ***** THIS WAS MY MISTAKE. I SHOULD HAVE FLED SOUTH WITH THIS TF!

Japanese aircraft
***** G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied Ships
***** CL Dauntless, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
***** xAP Khandalla, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk

Singapore:

Japanese aircraft
***** G3M2 Nell x 9

Allied aircraft
***** Buffalo I x 16
***** Hurricane IIb Trop x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
***** G3M2 Nell: 4 destroyed

Can't complain about this. Hopefully Japanese air attacks will continue to be uncoordinated with their escorts.

Georgetown:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-27b Nate x 35

Allied aircraft
***** Buffalo I x 1

Alor Star:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-21-IIa Sally x 21
***** Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 24

Allied aircraft losses
***** Blenheim I: 18 damaged, 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 23

Georgetown:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-21-IIa Sally x 27
***** Ki-27b Nate x 12
***** Ki-48-Ib Lily x 55

Allied aircraft
***** no flights

Allied aircraft losses
***** Buffalo I: 1 damaged, 1 destroyed on ground
***** Blenheim IF: 6 damaged, 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 66

Kota Bharu:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-21-IIa Sally x 22

Allied aircraft losses
***** Hudson I: 4 damaged

Allied ground losses:
***** 10 casualties reported
******** Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 8

Kota Bharu:

Japanese aircraft
***** Ki-21-IIa Sally x 31

Allied aircraft losses
***** Vildebeest III: 1 destroyed on ground
***** Hudson I: 9 damaged

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 22

So far, so good. What worries me is this:

Pre-Invasion action off Kuantan

52 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
***** DMS Shimushu
***** xAP Meiji Maru
***** CM Kamome

Japanese ground losses:
***** 45 casualties reported
******** Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
******** Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

DMS Shimushu fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 6,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

Amphibious Assault at Kuantan

TF 94 troops unloading over beach at Kuantan

Japanese ground losses:
***** 161 casualties reported
******** Squads: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
******** Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled
******** Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

12 troops of a IJA HMG Section lost in surf during unload of 55th Div
10cm T91 Howitzer damaged beyond repair during unload of 55th Div /2
15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 55th Div /3
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 55th Div /4
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost in surf during unload of 55th Div /5
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 55th Div /7
15 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 55th Div /7
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 55th Div /9
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 55th Div /10
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad accidentally lost during unload of 55th Div /11
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 55th Div /12
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 55th Div /15

Pre-Invasion action off Kuantan

53 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Japanese Ships
***** PB Heiei Maru #7
***** SC Ch 8
***** APD Fuji
***** AV Sanyo Maru

Japanese ground losses:
***** 46 casualties reported
******** Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
******** Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

PB Heiei Maru #7 fired at enemy troops
SC Ch 8 fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 6,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

Amphibious Assault at Kuantan

TF 97 troops unloading over beach at Kuantan

Japanese ground losses:
***** Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Motorized Support accidentally lost during unload of 5th Field Const Bn
15 Aviation Support troops lost in surf during unload of 84th JAAF AF Bn /3

This spells ill for me. If this is the preamble for an assault on Mersing in a turn or two, I am in deep trouble here.

< Message edited by Kitakami -- 5/4/2018 2:38:42 PM >


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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 63
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:40:43 PM   
jwolf

 

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I'm curious about the fate of BB Washington. My ignorance of the details of the mod is confusing me. But it looks like the Americans get BB Washington much earlier ... just so it can be blown up in the initial PH attack?

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 64
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:41:50 PM   
Kitakami


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Is it me, or were Allied air losses rather light on turn one:




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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 65
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:47:30 PM   
Kitakami


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These were the ships lost. Not too bad... yet. Now comes the Flight of the Thundering Herd (TM), which is the Allied equivalent of the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, I guess.




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Post #: 66
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:52:26 PM   
Lecivius


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In this mod the Washington is an older BB, not a North Carolina class.

I read both AAR's, so I have to stay mum. John is aggressive, so you can count on him swinging for the fences. He loves to kill convoys. He learned a ton from his game with Dan, so don't expect him to make all of the mistakes he made earlier. That said, he IS Banzai John, so he will still be hyper aggressive. Keep that in mind

So far your losses are pretty standard. In fact, you kept afloat some of the better older BB's.

Loving this already.

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Post #: 67
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 2:55:03 PM   
Kitakami


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That is it for me. If there is anything you'd like to know, I'll do my best to post it.

Tenno Heika Banzai!!! err... no... wrong side, I guess... Hooah!!! then ;p

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Post #: 68
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:02:35 PM   
Lecivius


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.




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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 69
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:06:47 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
I'm curious about the fate of BB Washington. My ignorance of the details of the mod is confusing me. But it looks like the Americans get BB Washington much earlier ... just so it can be blown up in the initial PH attack?

In this mod, there are 4x Colorado-class BBs that have begun refit, and are thus the best of the battlewagons once they finish repairs: Colorado, West Virginia, Maryland, and Washington. As luck would have it, it was one of them that got sunk. The other three are in the West Coast (Maryland and West Virginia at Bremerton, and Colorado at Seattle), and the closest to finish repairs will be ready in almost 2 months. They have 8x 16in/45 Mk 5 rifles, 16x 5in/38 Mk 12 EBRs (1066 AA rating), 21 kts).


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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 70
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:07:35 PM   
Kitakami


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@Lecivius: Indeed!!!

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Post #: 71
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:48:12 PM   
jwolf

 

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Thanks to both of you for clarifying the BB Washington situation. As for the opening attacks, it looks very rough on the ships at Pearl but not so bad -- yet -- otherwise.

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RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:55:26 PM   
HansBolter


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Very strange design choice to nerf Washington into a 21 knot slow poke and stick her in Pearl to be sunk at the outset!

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Hans


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Post #: 73
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 3:59:04 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Very strange design choice to nerf Washington into a 21 knot slow poke and stick her in Pearl to be sunk at the outset

It is just a name change. BB Georgia, a North Carolina-class BB, arrives on August 28th, so there is no loss of a fast BB.



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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 74
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 5:24:24 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Very strange design choice to nerf Washington into a 21 knot slow poke and stick her in Pearl to be sunk at the outset

It is just a name change. BB Georgia, a North Carolina-class BB, arrives on August 28th, so there is no loss of a fast BB.





Only a died in the wool JFB could think there is nothing wrong with destroying the tradition of the battleship Washington.

Willis Lee is turning over in his grave.

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Post #: 75
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 6:57:15 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Very strange design choice to nerf Washington into a 21 knot slow poke and stick her in Pearl to be sunk at the outset

It is just a name change. BB Georgia, a North Carolina-class BB, arrives on August 28th, so there is no loss of a fast BB.





Only a died in the wool JFB could think there is nothing wrong with destroying the tradition of the battleship Washington.

Willis Lee is turning over in his grave.

Not so far fetched. The Mod is "Between the Storms" which uses ships that were cancelled by the naval treaties. So I think there was a Washington planned for the Colorado Class, IIRC. There are also US Battlecruisers in this mod. So John and others who worked on this mod started with an earlier date for development of the navy and newer ships had to be given new names.
Having said that, I agree that not having a North Carolina class Washington goes against my love of the history of that ship and crew. We'll have to see if BB Georgia can do as well!

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Post #: 76
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 6:58:19 PM   
Lecivius


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Go Bulldogs!!




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Post #: 77
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 7:59:13 PM   
ny59giants


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John used Georgia for a BB name because of Dan.

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Post #: 78
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 9:27:09 PM   
Kitakami


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Will try to make all Southerners proud of my use of BB Georgia, that is for sure.

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 79
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/4/2018 10:50:37 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Will try to make all Southerners proud of my use of BB Georgia, that is for sure.

Message to the Fleet from Canoerebel: Climb Mount Johns! Do the Blowtorch! (see Dan's AAR for explanation.)

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Post #: 80
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/5/2018 2:13:19 PM   
Kitakami


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Will check the references.

Meanwhile, I am going through the Thundering Herds (TM). The death by a thousand clicks is taking its toll, I am mentally tired. I will try to get the turn to John today but, if I don't, he will receive it tomorrow.

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 81
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/5/2018 5:22:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Will check the references.

Meanwhile, I am going through the Thundering Herds (TM). The death by a thousand clicks is taking its toll, I am mentally tired. I will try to get the turn to John today but, if I don't, he will receive it tomorrow.


Since CR's AAR is extensive and the reference is one line, here is a link to find it: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332189&mpage=27&key=#788

Edit: Dang thing won't go to the specific post, # 588 on page 27.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 5/5/2018 5:25:07 PM >


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Post #: 82
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/5/2018 5:34:47 PM   
Kitakami


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I have been clicking for a few hours, and I am starting to see double. I am taking a break. Will continue later on.
Man! I had forgotten how many civilian cargo ships the Allies have to order around on turn 2... and tons of them have to move by themselves, not in convoys...

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 83
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 11:38:30 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

I have been clicking for a few hours, and I am starting to see double. I am taking a break. Will continue later on.
Man! I had forgotten how many civilian cargo ships the Allies have to order around on turn 2... and tons of them have to move by themselves, not in convoys...


Don't forget to check each one for conversion potential. Don't want to get your future AKVs and AKEs tied up in supply or troop convoys.

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Hans


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Post #: 84
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 12:33:32 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Don't forget to check each one for conversion potential. Don't want to get your future AKVs and AKEs tied up in supply or troop convoys.

Good point! Will check for all ships that can convert to xAP, AKE, and AKV. Thanks for the reminder!


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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 85
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 3:43:46 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Don't forget to check each one for conversion potential. Don't want to get your future AKVs and AKEs tied up in supply or troop convoys.

Good point! Will check for all ships that can convert to xAP, AKE, and AKV. Thanks for the reminder!


Others may differ, but I do not find it necessary to make every AKE conversion possible. I do all the AEs and all the xAKs (5200 cap?) that can become 4200 capacity AKEs. After that. perhaps 6-10 of the 4900 capacity xAKs to 3920 capacity AKEs.

All the 5550 ton xAKs become xAPs at 1300/1850 capacity. All the 5860? capacity xAKs become xAPs at 1660/2400 capacity. These two groups are the haulers for infantry units for amphib invasions where there are not enough APs to handle the job.
All the 3900 tonners become xAPs at 100/1200 capacity (decent range and very useful for small BFs, artillery or AA units) and for invasions.
All the 1750 xAKLs become 500/750 capacity xAPs. Only 4000 nm range but very useful for shuttling around construction battalions, small base forces and other small units as you develop groups of islands.

I only do a dozen AGs since most bases get the port built enough to support small fry before I need an AG for the next target. Others say convert them all and continue using them to haul cargo.

I keep the 4175 capacity xAKs as my main amphib cargo/tank/heavy equipment carriers because they can do 14 knots. I believe in minimizing the transit time for troops on ships because of the disruption and morale issues of long voyages, and to minimize the time in range of enemy opposition.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 86
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 3:59:11 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Others may differ, but I do not find it necessary to make every AKE conversion possible. I do all the AEs and all the xAKs (5200 cap?) that can become 4200 capacity AKEs. After that. perhaps 6-10 of the 4900 capacity xAKs to 3920 capacity AKEs.

***** Totally agree. It is the way to replenish the BBs with 16" rifles.

quote:

All the 5550 ton xAKs become xAPs at 1300/1850 capacity. All the 5860? capacity xAKs become xAPs at 1660/2400 capacity. These two groups are the haulers for infantry units for amphib invasions where there are not enough APs to handle the job.

***** Will check. I never think about cargo ships in terms of tons. Perhaps I should start :)

quote:

All the 3900 tonners become xAPs at 100/1200 capacity (decent range and very useful for small BFs, artillery or AA units) and for invasions.

***** Same as above.

quote:

All the 1750 xAKLs become 500/750 capacity xAPs. Only 4000 nm range but very useful for shuttling around construction battalions, small base forces and other small units as you develop groups of islands.

***** Will also check.

quote:

I only do a dozen AGs since most bases get the port built enough to support small fry before I need an AG for the next target. Others say convert them all and continue using them to haul cargo.

***** In my game with Falken I have not seen the need for more AGs, but will keep an eye on this, definitely.

quote:

I keep the 4175 capacity xAKs as my main amphib cargo/tank/heavy equipment carriers because they can do 14 knots. I believe in minimizing the transit time for troops on ships because of the disruption and morale issues of long voyages, and to minimize the time in range of enemy opposition.

***** Total agreement here.

Thanks for your input, much appreciated!


_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 87
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 4:31:55 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

***** Will check. I never think about cargo ships in terms of tons. Perhaps I should start :)



And "speed" of cargo ships when forming Task Forces. Sometimes it will matter.
For example: A 10 in a group of 14s can make a difference.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/6/2018 4:33:12 PM >

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 88
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 5:07:16 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Conversions: As soon as you can, start finding the ships that can convert to ARs "repair ship" and begin converting. They take about a year to do so and you will need them fast, as Japan starts with only a couple ARs

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 89
RE: BTS/BTSL against John 3rd: What was Kitakami thinki... - 5/6/2018 5:12:39 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Conversions: As soon as you can, start finding the ships that can convert to ARs "repair ship" and begin converting. They take about a year to do so and you will need them fast, as Japan starts with only a couple ARs


He is playing as Allies.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 90
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