Continuing problems with trade and convoys

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Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/8/2018 3:56:27 PM

Aranthus

Posts: 164
Joined: 4/6/2014
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There has been a lot of improvement in the trade and convoy system. Now the game doesn't crash all the time when I try to change a convoy route. However, once I have fixed the changes, the computer just ignores them when routes are recomputed or when the game moves to another phase. Part of this seems to be in the algorithm by which the computer chooses what resources are used to satisfy trade agreements and which resources to use for production. It seems that when fulfilling trade agreements, the first choice is for home country resources instead of whatever controlled resource is closest to the recipient. Also, the computer favors oil for production over non-oil resources. Neither of these behaviors is called for in the rules AFAIK, and they don't make much sense. Case in point. Using 2.8.4, it is early 1940, and the CW wants to send two resources to China and two to France. Since I have all that oil in Burma and the NEI, as well as two spare resources in Malaya, it seems an obvious choice to send the Burma oil and one of the Malay resources to China, and save the two NEI oil in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. That uses three convoys: none for Burma; one for the Malay resource, and one for each of the NEI oil. Then to France I can send the Cyprus resource and one from Africa, so that I don't cut into my transatlantic convoys. The computer has other ideas. It trades the Canada oil and a UK resource to China, and sends one of the NEI oil to England for production. Needless to say that actually reduces my useable factories. I've tried several times to fix this, but every time I get one convoy route corrected, the computer wrecks the others.

Post #: 1

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/8/2018 4:22:13 PM

4personalbusiness

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline

I've got a similar problem with allocating resources to Russia via the Arctic Sea. I have all these convoys up there, the weather is good, but the computer insists on threading resources through the Med via Istanbul of all places. This creates all kinds of problems. When I change the route manually, the computer temporarily accepts the change, only to revert in future steps.

Also, can you use saved oil for lend lease? The computer doesn't seem to like that either.

(in reply to Aranthus)

Post #: 2

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/8/2018 5:14:45 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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There is no rules inhibition for saved oil to be lend leased.

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Paul

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Post #: 3

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/8/2018 5:19:39 PM

4personalbusiness

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline

Thanks, Paul. The program seems to insist on using oil resources. Then again, I've already established that the ctrl-p screen doesn't accurately display how saved oils are actually allocated for production so perhaps this is a similar phenomenon. Hard to test, though. It's all so tiresome.

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Post #: 4

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/9/2018 2:15:36 PM

Gar-Dog

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/10/2018
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I've always been able to get the UK convoys straightened out, but it involves quite a few steps to get it to stick with trade. I don't recall the exact steps, but IIRC you have to first set the resource you want to trade as a TRADE resource; then one of the others the computer selected will stop being used. Next you have to specify routes for many of the convoys (look in the user guide). Every convoy adjustment is a tedious one; the UI there could be friendlier and more efficient but it is workable.

My test game I'm not using oil resources or saving, but I never had issues choosing whether it was oil vs. non-oil.

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RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/9/2018 3:04:28 PM

4personalbusiness

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
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I haven't tried step 1, setting the resource as a trade resource. That's a good idea. Thanks!

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RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/9/2018 9:43:18 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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I often read through these kinds of threads and wonder if everyone knows about Defaults and Overrides, but I'm afraid to ask. No malice intended.

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Paul

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Post #: 7

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/10/2018 12:19:06 AM

davidachamberlain

Posts: 326
Joined: 1/21/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I often read through these kinds of threads and wonder if everyone knows about Defaults and Overrides, but I'm afraid to ask. No malice intended.

I like to think I know, but sometimes when I try to change the routing, it does not matter what I do. They just stay idle. At that point, I just give up and continue with the game.

Dave

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 8

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/10/2018 1:57:38 AM

Aranthus

Posts: 164
Joined: 4/6/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I often read through these kinds of threads and wonder if everyone knows about Defaults and Overrides, but I'm afraid to ask. No malice intended.

The problem is that the computer ignores the default and/or override setting after I have set it. There is another issue as well. Say I have set the Burma oil to trade to China. The computer then sets the Estevan oil to "idle". When I set the default on the Estevan oil to production (let's say to one of the London factories), and hit recompute, the computer then idles the Burma oil and sends the Estevan oil to China. So then I go back to the Burma oil and attempt to set the default to trade that to China. Except now the default setting doesn't work at all, unless I first set it to trade to France, and then re-set it to trade to China. When I get that to work, the computer then idles Estevan.

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RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/10/2018 4:50:25 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Like I said, not trying to insult anyone, I'd like to think it helps Steve to know what was tried. Convoy routing has been a source of frustration since the game was published.

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Paul

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Post #: 10

RE: Continuing problems with trade and convoys - 5/12/2018 1:23:59 PM

TeaLeaf

Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline

I've had quite the frustrations myself when dealing with AI-wrecked convoy routes.
Right now I have (almost) no problems anymore, but my experience may not be relevant, because I still use version 2.7.5.
I am happy with that version and I am afraid by patching to 2.8.X I may introduce frustrations again, so I wait till I'm certain the next version I install will be stable and to my liking. Usually the posts in the Tech Support forum are a good indicator ;-).

Things I do to keep the AI from wrecking my lines (90% of the times):
- I keep around 75% of all routes defaulted. For every Major Power. I find the AI does a much better job if it manages only 25% of each MP 's convoys. Sometimes you have to think about what resource is a key one, as defaulting one does a better job than the other.
- When setting routes manually (designating not only source and destination, but also the exact route the resource/BP has to follow), I found out the AI always accepts this when it is done with an already defaulted route and with the default screen open!
- The advice of Gar-Dog is a good one. Before you hit the 'recompute' button, in the first row of the small default window you should first designate (all!) the right resource(s) for trade, and set the resource(s) you don't want to but the AI choose to trade to N/A.

And if the AI insists on frustrating my attempts, usually I can still impose my correction upon it by simply closing and reopening the production planning.
If still unsuccessfull, either I have made a mistake (too few CONV somewhere) or I can still get it done my way if I return to the production planning a few phases later.

That's my experience so far with 2.7.5 :-)

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 11