RE: This is so hard

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa >> RE: This is so hard

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RE: This is so hard - 5/13/2018 2:41:25 AM

Neogodhobo

Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline

Either way, as soon as turn 1, the game is historically wrong. Simply because the player has made a move and the AI has responded to this move.

JJKettunen : As a final note, you dont have to like the idea behind what they did. Its not sugarcoating it, its explaining to you why they decided to do random garrison. Anyway I suggest you get Gary Grigsby's war in the east ( if you dont already ).
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And to follow on my previous post, I just made it to the gates of Moscow ( well, a few kilometers away from Rzhev ) and its August 26 ! Im also approaching Leningrad, and while Odessa has not been captured, I am near Kharkov. My tank division are very low on manpower though, and same for the infantry. I inflicted more or less 2 million casualties on the Soviets and I have lost about 60,000 men ( or was it 80 ? ) either way, its a very good number, and Im quite proud of myself.

What made the big difference is that I choose the option to re-organised the front line before battle, according to my plans. I was planning for 2nd Pz Gr. to go South, but last minute changed of plans, I sent told them to say Center, and made a huge Kessel. Took a long pause in July with AGC and waited for AGN and AGS to catch up, creating a static frontline. Everyone was on the same page, everyone rested, refitted, and changed to Sustained offensive. took me about the whole month of doing nothing ( and catching up to the frontline for the divisions/armies who were further back ). But it really paid off in August where I was able to make several more kessels. The soviet had all catch up to me and it was just easier to punch trough and take advantage.

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(in reply to JJKettunen)

Post #: 31

RE: This is so hard - 5/13/2018 8:51:36 AM

JJKettunen

Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline

Well, I did the '43 scenario published with WitE, along with playtesting the game, so in general I know what I'm talking about.

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to Neogodhobo)

Post #: 32

RE: This is so hard - 5/16/2018 2:34:19 PM

Neogodhobo

Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline

Nice, What adds realism to WitE is the massive multiplayer game we created. Have you seen those ? I highly recommend playing that way.

Its basically 4 vs 4. One act as Hitler or Stalin, the other 3 act as Front Commanders. I dont need to explain in detail Im sure you get the idea of what it looks like. But I love playing that way, Iv already went trough 4 or 5 Front commander replacement ( I play as Stalin ). Wich makes it so much closer to the realities of war ( as if I sent them to the gulag or if they died in battle or were captured ).

To add a bit of realism, we also made the German team veterans of the game. While us Soviets were pretty new to it. Needless to say, we are getting crushed but the first Winter offensive is on the way. My Marshals just delivered me top secret offensive plans and I am currently studying them to either approve them or make some changes to them. The Germans have captured Moscow a few months ago but the fighting still goes on. As Hitler always said, capturing Moscow does not equal victory and he was damn right. I had to kill off two Marshal whom I blame for the capture of Moscow. But now I my Generals have gain enough experience, we are slowly starting to hold the Germans at bay. Heroically defending Gorky as we speak.

Anyway check those games out in the forum, its a blast !!

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Post #: 33

RE: This is so hard - 6/3/2018 10:08:48 PM

sabo10

Posts: 36
Joined: 2/25/2011
From: Minneapolis
Status: offline

I will never take on a strong point directly, especially with Panzers. Its the same thing the Germans did in WW2 they would bypass then surround strong points. I win more than I lose as German, it took some time to get the feel of it but I'm doing it right I think

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Post #: 34

RE: This is so hard - 6/20/2018 12:51:44 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

I agree it's way too difficult for the Germans than historically. It does annoy.Still one of the greatest engines ever.

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Post #: 35

RE: This is so hard - 7/22/2018 8:19:33 AM

Khanti

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

(...)

Its completely normal to have difficulties fighting the Soviets in the game. What makes it easy to destroy them is how,when and where you move your troops. This is what got the Germans trough the gates of Moscow.

Play the game and test it out a lot. The Germans had wargame and had lots of opportunity to recreate Operation Barbarossa before engaging the real thing. It was originally planned to have one panzer army from AGC to assist in the capture of Leningrad, meaning that two panzer armies would be operating in the South. But the wargames had showed that this was not the best course of actions.

(...)

I have a full playtrough ( of the frontier battles ) where I dont use my Panzer groups AT ALL. Just because I want to save them for October-November-December. I used my mechanized divisions only. ( I do not recommend this tactic however ).

(...)

Dont just go turn by turn, advancing everyone as the game goes. This is when you create a Verdun type of game. Because you havent planned anything, so you cant move your troops according to your plans. I bet this is the reason why most people dont succeed.

Now dont get me wrong, I didnt get to Moscow myself, just yet, but this is how I used to play the game, without planning ahead. Now that I started to plan ahead and think about my strategies, I started being way more successful. Such as capturing over 3 millions soviets by turn 10-15. With about 200,000 of my own casualties.

Sorry I couldn't resist to point it out: the reason people try such unhistorical and unwise generally tactic is within the game mechanics. I also found myself saving my armored divisions and attack secondary targets mostly with infantry in DC games because of artificial attrition of mechanized units built within the game.

While I think it was just math error*, it sets armored random losses in every battle at 50% (yes half of your tanks are killed by accidents). You may check it in every battle log - just look at details, not graphics, not text results, just details.

The solution what to change, if you do not like this situation, is written by me here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4508819

* I believe it was supposed to be 5% not 50%

(in reply to Neogodhobo)

Post #: 36

RE: This is so hard - 8/7/2018 11:23:00 AM

Templer_12

Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline

Game is to hard?

Personally, I am very happy that the game is demanding.
Unpretentious scissors, stone, paper games are there enough out there.

(in reply to Khanti)

Post #: 37

RE: This is so hard - 8/13/2018 5:19:13 PM

General Straw Wall

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/13/2018
Status: offline

Is it not possible to provide a modified AI that provides a more historical results early in the game?

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Post #: 38

RE: This is so hard - 8/27/2018 3:58:47 AM

ChuckBerger

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline

Historical results are definitely achievable in this game, and indeed it is possible to far outstrip the German timeline. Playing against normal AI, I have little difficulty most of the time achieving a victory by September/October. For a challenge, I play at hard or really hard. I find only the very highest difficulty level is actually unbeatable.

If you're not winning as the Germans against the AI, it's because you aren't playing to the full combination of your strengths. The game requires a skilled coordination of many different aspects - cards, air power and artillery, command bonuses, political points, unit posture, refitting, and tactical bonuses from surround, etc.

Some people seem to think that Barbarossa should simply be a matter of moving Germans forward, and watching Soviet defence lines crumble as soon as they are touched. In fact you have to plan encirclements very carefully - if you do, they can be executed and it isn't all that hard to encircle Soviet pockets of 10+ divisions, or even 30+ divisions sometimes. As was historically the case, you don't have a prayer unless you can pull off these encirclements.

I think maybe people also forget that the Germans had 700,000+ casualties by the end of 1941, and as early as Smolensk some divisions were reporting 50%+ losses (battle and mechanical failure) of AFVs. And that's with nearly "perfect play", in an operational if not strategic sense. I hate Eastern Front games where the Germans suffer next to no losses at all during 1941.

This game is not without its flaws. In particular, I find it is actually a bit skewed towards the Germans, particularly in AGS where it has some a-historical bonuses, for the Axis Allies in particular. And the game doesn't give the Russians enough incentive to fight hard for every scrap of ground - since only Leningrad, Moscow, and Rostov really matter, a Russian "three fortresses" strategy is viable, to the neglect of historically important parts of the front like Orel-Kharkov area.

The Soviet paralysis is well-simulated through inability to move units around as a player might like to, rather than through tactical penalties. If you can't play to the Russians' weaknesses in mobility and reaction speed, and insist on a tactical advantage, then you are misunderstanding the game and you will fail. If you can't figure out the logistics game, you will fail. If you can't work out how to load bonuses up on your schwerpunkt, you will fail...

(in reply to General Straw Wall)

Post #: 39