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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 12:59:12 AM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		Hmm, I guess that is a known unknown.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 4:06:07 AM   
Canoerebel


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NoPac: A pitched battle near Shikuka. The Allies come out short on points but force the Japanese fleet to expend a lot of ammo. If Erik's combat ships have to retire to replenish, then this bought perhaps four or five days. At this point, that's critical.




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Post #: 872
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 4:31:23 PM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		I know you've heard this before, but feel the need to reiterate for those that are unfamiliar with this technique: I find the use of xAKs, xAPs and other non-military craft intentionally to soak off sorties and act as ablative ammo soaks gamey in the extreme. Your mileage may vary.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 4:51:24 PM   
DRF99


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I know you've heard this before, but feel the need to reiterate for those that are unfamiliar with this technique: I find the use of xAKs, xAPs and other non-military craft intentionally to soak off sorties and act as ablative ammo soaks gamey in the extreme. Your mileage may vary.


Here it seems that both sides are doing it.

Erik is flooding the zone with "riff-raff", Canoe is meeting them with hordes of PTs, xAKs, etc. Seems pretty balanced.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 874
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 5:06:58 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I haven't (and never have) used non-military ships to soak off sorties. Erik hasn't even flown any sorties.

As for the use of ships, what's going on is what you'd expect under these circumstances in war. It's late 1944, the Allies are pretty far behind the real war, the Japanese air force is far mightier than in reality, and Erik is throwing every kind of ship he has at a "cavalry detachment" surrounded and threatened with annihilation. Under these circumstances, the Allies would make the wisest possible use of all the ships and other assets at their disposal - creating floating "torpedoes" (bombs), sinking them to close channels, or whatever else might be thought necessary and prudent to stave off destruction. The game engine doesn't allow us to block channels, etc., so I'm doing the next best thing.

The cavalry is on the way, so buying time is paramount. Expending PT boats, LSTs and xAKs while also committing everything possible capable of fighting as a combat TF (DMS, DE, APD) makes sense. I'm doing it at a cost - the xAKS, for instance, are worth a lot of points, and the APDs, DEs and DMSs are important parts of my OOB. But I have little choice.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 5:31:07 PM   
Canoerebel


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Shikuka: Very tense as Erik seeks a way to penetrate the Allied defenses. Does he know or suspect that Death Star is around or has whatever data he has available led him to other suspicions?





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Post #: 876
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 6:19:49 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DRF99


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I know you've heard this before, but feel the need to reiterate for those that are unfamiliar with this technique: I find the use of xAKs, xAPs and other non-military craft intentionally to soak off sorties and act as ablative ammo soaks gamey in the extreme. Your mileage may vary.


Here it seems that both sides are doing it.

Erik is flooding the zone with "riff-raff", Canoe is meeting them with hordes of PTs, xAKs, etc. Seems pretty balanced.


Equally egregious is what you meant.

I have no problems using military craft as pickets or in small "riff-raff" TFs that are expendable and have little chance of surviving an encounter with a 'real' SCTF. PT, YMS, AM, PB, PC, etc. are all fair game. My objection is to flooding the zone with superfluous xAKs, xAPs and non-military ships that will-because of the game's model-soak off valuable movement / reaction and ammunition points from the opponent.

In real life, these ships wouldn't merit a second glance from a SCTF bound on a mission of surface combat. In the game, the incoming TFs will engage and destroy them all before continuing on their way. Minus ammunition and operational points / movement points, of course.

Like I said, your mileage may vary. But I find this to be manipulation of the game engine. Players that do this wantonly have no cause for complaint about what their opponent does in turn to manipulate the mechanics of the game.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 6:23:33 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I haven't (and never have) used non-military ships to soak off sorties. Erik hasn't even flown any sorties.


In addition to aerial sorties, I also meant ship sorties. The fact that you are trying to soak off aerial sorties, but he hasn't bitten doesn't overlook the fact that you are also trying to soak off ship sorties / ammunition / movement points and operational points.

If he *does* fly some aerial sorties against the xAK rabble you are throwing out there, then you will be successfully contradicting yourself. Why put yourself in that position?

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Post #: 878
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 6:51:34 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I am not "trying to soak off aerial sorties." (You keep saying that I am, but I don't know if that's a typo in your last post or if you actually think that.) The xAK TFs and other TFs move forward one hex at night and retire during the same phase. So there haven't been any targets of opportunity out there, other than PT TFs. He's been targeting those with Nates, but stopped after some LRCAP handled them.

There is nothing gamey about this tactic. It would have been used under similar circumstances in the war and there are obvious counters to it. Erik can send in DD TFs or whatever, though there's risk in that if I counter with CA TFs. He is close to his ports and can replenish and attack repeatedly, harvesting a great deal of points.

As for targeting issues, that's just part of the game. I can't order my strike TFs to target only his big combat TFs - last turn, they flew only against riff-raff. That's just part of the game. All of this is part of the game. In real life, the Allies would make use of these empty xAKs to stem the Japanese onslaught. I'm doing the same.

I wish forumites wouldn't lob hand grenades. In another thread last week, it was allegations that people weren't interested in sportsmanship and were otherwise acting reprehensibly by doing things that half (or more) of the community didn't think was gamey. Now my conduct is "egregious" and I'm using gamey tactics when neither player (to my knowledge) thinks there's anything amiss.

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Post #: 879
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 7:16:37 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I wish forumites wouldn't lob hand grenades. In another thread last week, it was allegations that people weren't interested in sportsmanship and were otherwise acting reprehensibly by doing things that half (or more) of the community didn't think was gamey. Now my conduct is "egregious" and I'm using gamey tactics when neither player (to my knowledge) thinks there's anything amiss.


I'm sorry you think this is an onslaught. I'll avoid further discussion of this topic here in your AAR thread. Outside of this, however, I think this is a valid topic of discussion and argument and will not shy away from bringing this to the fore.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 7:19:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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Oz: The Aussie armored squadron beat the clock and auto-flipped Broome on the day it withdrew.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 9:48:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		Another point is that lots of the "riff-raff" that Eric is sending started out as xAKs/xAKLs but the Japanese are able to convert them into PBs, AMcs, etc. If the Allies could do the same they would have lots of riff-raff to meet the IJN riff-raff!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 882
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/18/2018 10:28:36 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Another point is that lots of the "riff-raff" that Eric is sending started out as xAKs/xAKLs but the Japanese are able to convert them into PBs, AMcs, etc. If the Allies could do the same they would have lots of riff-raff to meet the IJN riff-raff!


Not in this case, unless CR purpose-brought them into the theater in question. The Allies get more YMS, PC, PG, AM and so forth than you can shake a stick at also. Anyways, I said I wouldn't bring up this issue in CR's AAR anymore. Please PM me or start a thread in another area of the forum if you'd like a serious discussion.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:03:52 PM   
T Rav

 

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Status: offline 		Why did Doolittle launch early? Riff-Raff. Every commander will use the tools at hand.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:05:57 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		I think Erik and I are well-matched in this regard. In both of his all-out assaults on Shikuka, he arranged to send in his riff-raff first, to deplete the ammo of my defenses so that his big boys can then come in and savage my out-of-ammo combat TFs. It worked the first time. I countered that by creating a deeper defense incorporating my own riff-raff. So far it seems to be working.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/19/2018 5:06:25 PM >

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Post #: 885
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:20:19 PM   
T Rav

 

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Status: offline 		Tip of the hat to the commander. Back to lurking.

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Post #: 886
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:33:50 PM   
Canoerebel


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In the nighttime hours, under a full moon, Erik commits his navy in strength and force.

The first obstacles are in the hex south of Shikuka. There, I had two merchant TFs that had vacated Shikuka yesterday (against orders), fleeing the approach of enemy vessels. I ordered them back to Shikuka this turn, but Erik sent in a good CA TF to deal with the opposition. They do so, handily, but expend some ammo in the process.

Then a CL TF arrives in the same hex and tangles with a PT TF. One torpedo is enough to sink CL Oi, which is a good start.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/19/2018 5:36:10 PM >

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Post #: 887
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:37:32 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Not sure why that last image was so small. Here's a larger image of the dispatch of CL Oi.




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Post #: 888
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:44:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: There then follow a number of "dry" engagements between TFs low on ammo - these take place one to five hexes south of Shikuka. A lot of these are PT TFs that scattered to avoid enemy contact yesterday.

Even as these are going on, I can see enemy TF icons at SHikuka and begin getting replay messages that various Allied TFs are scattering to avoid contact.




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Post #: 889
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:47:33 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: Enemy subs are present, but not nearly as numerous as in early September, during that First Full Moon Phase Attack (this being the Second Full Moon Phase Attack).






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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:51:40 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: E-Class ships unable to vanquish the damaged xAK Glanville (she too had fled Shikuka yesterday, without orders).

To this point, all the action is taking place a hex or more south of Shikuka. What I'm really anxious to know is whether Erik is committing his big boys and, if so, whether they'll be able to unleash a nuclear bombardments, as in the Moon Phase I attack.




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Post #: 891
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 5:57:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: The first enemy TF to enter Shikuka during this Moon Phase battle.

I think we both made miscalculations here, but they worked out in my favor. Erik figured he would have to fight through Allied riff-raff, so he commits his riff-raff first (or perhaps he does so intentionally, to drain my ammo). I have lots off riff-raff in port, mostly in TFs that have lower numbers than my combat TFs, but I set most of my combat TFs to patrol the hex, so they react and immediately engage.

So, to this point, my Shikuka riff-raff haven't been a factor in the opening of this day's contests.

By the way, this is by far my strongest remaining combat force. I hope they don't get bloodied.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/19/2018 5:58:24 PM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:02:05 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: Next comes a small DD TF that yesterday ate up a bunch of riff-raff a hex SE of Shikuka. My second-strongest combat TF deals with it.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:04:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: PT TF helps deal with riff-raff.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:07:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: Here come the cruisers. So Erik means business this night.

I'm not sure why my CA Astoria TF and my CL Nashville TF didn't react to deal with this TF first - perhaps they are already low on ammo.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:14:09 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: A strong and pristine enemy CA TF tangles with my third (and last) decent combat TFs. The Fletchers perform superbly, it seems. Three enemy DDs confirmed sunk.

One of the keys of this battle will be what ammo state Erik's TFs are in afterwards. Mine can replenish at Shikuka. Will he be able to come again, or will he have to retire to replenish?




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:18:33 PM   
Canoerebel


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BAttle of SHikuka: CL Santa Fe TF still has ammo, which is encouraging.


Just prior to this clash, a large enemy CL/DD TF skirmished with some PT TFs a hex south of Shikuka, so I think Erik has more inbound.

And just prior to the big Fletcher battle, above, one enemy DD hit two mines at Shikuka.





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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:21:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: Santa Fe deals with more riff-raff at Shikuka.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:25:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: Here comes the big enemy CL/DD TF, taking on the tuckered out Santa Fe TF. Santa Fe takes a torpedo. Only one enemy DD shows any damage to speak of. This may be the beginning of the end. This was my second strongest TF. The cupboard is getting bare.




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Post #: 899
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 5/19/2018 6:28:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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Battle of Shikuka: CA Astoria and CL Nashville TF still have enough ammo to fight and win.

There's been a lot of fighting already. Will Erik commit his BB TFs?




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