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CV has 1 too many planes - 5/21/2018 4:50:12 PM   
dougmichel


Posts: 58
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline 		I recently finished my CV airgroup resizing plan outlined in the Japan setup spreadsheet. I made an error along the way and one of the Kate airgroups has 1 airframe in reserve. I was able to get the unit loaded to the Ryujo which put the CV at 49 planes with 48 max. What will the effect of this be? Is there a way to send the extra airframe back into the pool or do I just need to wait for a plane to be destroyed? Will my carrier be able to launch any sorties with me being over?
Post #: 1
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 5/21/2018 4:56:12 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Extra reserve airframes are hung in the rafters so they do not interfere with operations. You can have up to 10% more active aircraft on your carrier than the stated capacity without any big detrimental effect on your operations, and up to 15% before launch is stopped. But it does mean that if another carrier in your fleet gets knocked out of operation, you cannot take aboard in-flight planes from the airgroups of the damaged/sunk carrier.

If the one extra aircraft really bothers you just resize the squadron again. You need one turn to order the resize and another turn in port for it to take effect.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 2
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 5/22/2018 12:42:12 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Extra reserve airframes are hung in the rafters so they do not interfere with operations. You can have up to 10% more active aircraft on your carrier than the stated capacity without any big detrimental effect on your operations, and up to 15% before launch is stopped. But it does mean that if another carrier in your fleet gets knocked out of operation, you cannot take aboard in-flight planes from the airgroups of the damaged/sunk carrier.

If the one extra aircraft really bothers you just resize the squadron again. You need one turn to order the resize and another turn in port for it to take effect.


+

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Post #: 3
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 5/23/2018 6:22:41 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

one of the Kate airgroups has 1 airframe in reserve.


The one extra A/C will have no detrimental effects on your ops. If it bothers you, you should see some arrows at the bottom of the air group that'll allow you to return the 'reserve' back to the pool. You may have to be in port to see/do this, not sure as I've only done it with LBA so far.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 4
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 5/25/2018 6:44:15 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		You can have up to 15%, in this case 7 extra planes, either operational or reserve, with no effect on operations.

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Post #: 5
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 6/30/2018 6:46:43 PM   
AFBTD

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 5/21/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Extra reserve airframes are hung in the rafters so they do not interfere with operations. You can have up to 10% more active aircraft on your carrier than the stated capacity without any big detrimental effect on your operations, and up to 15% before launch is stopped. But it does mean that if another carrier in your fleet gets knocked out of operation, you cannot take aboard in-flight planes from the airgroups of the damaged/sunk carrier.

If the one extra aircraft really bothers you just resize the squadron again. You need one turn to order the resize and another turn in port for it to take effect.


THX Ranger; Interesting while i have always problem with chitose and chiyoda; noted that always when get a new CV i leave docked at the port that arrives there for days

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Post #: 6
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 6/30/2018 7:57:50 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You can have up to 15%, in this case 7 extra planes, either operational or reserve, with no effect on operations.


I believe that it's 10%, Gorn.

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Post #: 7
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 6/30/2018 8:31:46 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You can have up to 15%, in this case 7 extra planes, either operational or reserve, with no effect on operations.


I believe that it's 10%, Gorn.

My understanding as well. Between 10 and 15% you get increasing numbers of fragments in strikes. At or beyond 15% there is not enough deck left to launch anything.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 8
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 6/30/2018 9:42:35 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		You can go up to 115% (with no penalty AFAIK). At 115% capacity, operations stop - except for possibly fly-off transfers? I haven't checked the latter.

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Post #: 9
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/1/2018 10:03:59 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Alright. I remember 10%. Others 15%. We need a source. Anyone got a line on the section in the manual or subsequent patch that hammers this out?

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Post #: 10
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/2/2018 12:26:39 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		7.0.1.1.1.1 emergency landings will not exceed 110% of capacity.

15.4.1.2 explains more:
no flight operations if more than 50 points of systems and flotation damage
only transfer missions allowed at greater than 115% of capacity (think of replenishment CVE groups, carrying LBA airgroups)
emergency landings will not exceed 110% of capacity
may never carry more than twice the capacity

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Post #: 11
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/2/2018 12:45:13 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You can have up to 15%, in this case 7 extra planes, either operational or reserve, with no effect on operations.


I believe that it's 10%, Gorn.


The old WitP was 110% before stopping operations. AE is 115%.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 12
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/2/2018 8:28:50 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

7.0.1.1.1.1 emergency landings will not exceed 110% of capacity.

15.4.1.2 explains more:
no flight operations if more than 50 points of systems and flotation damage
only transfer missions allowed at greater than 115% of capacity (think of replenishment CVE groups, carrying LBA airgroups)
emergency landings will not exceed 110% of capacity
may never carry more than twice the capacity


Thanks, RangerJoe. That cements it.

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Post #: 13
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/2/2018 8:53:17 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You are welcome.

Also note that Carrier Capable but not Carrier Trained will suffer a higher rate of operational losses. (7.01.1.1) The same section also notes that more more than five groups may not be on a carrier. I do not know for sure if breaking a squadron down counts as multiple groups but it may.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 7/2/2018 10:32:15 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 14
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 6:44:39 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Squadrons broken up to thirds count as 1/3 of the squadron. So you can actually have 4 squadron and 3 thirds and be still operable.

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Post #: 15
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 1:29:08 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

I recently finished my CV airgroup resizing plan outlined in the Japan setup spreadsheet. I made an error along the way and one of the Kate airgroups has 1 airframe in reserve. I was able to get the unit loaded to the Ryujo which put the CV at 49 planes with 48 max. What will the effect of this be? Is there a way to send the extra airframe back into the pool or do I just need to wait for a plane to be destroyed? Will my carrier be able to launch any sorties with me being over?


Extra planes?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 1:31:10 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

I recently finished my CV airgroup resizing plan outlined in the Japan setup spreadsheet. I made an error along the way and one of the Kate airgroups has 1 airframe in reserve. I was able to get the unit loaded to the Ryujo which put the CV at 49 planes with 48 max. What will the effect of this be? Is there a way to send the extra airframe back into the pool or do I just need to wait for a plane to be destroyed? Will my carrier be able to launch any sorties with me being over?


Extra planes?





More extra planes..USS Enterprise, 1941.




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Post #: 17
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 4:07:44 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		In-game, those are squadron reserve (spare) aircraft, up to 3 per squadron IIRC. They do not count toward the limit of 5 squadrons but I think they are part of the 115%.

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Post #: 18
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 6:10:08 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Also note that Carrier Capable but not Carrier Trained will suffer a higher rate of operational losses. (7.01.1.1)


Not that I've ever noticed, although that is what it says.

quote:

The same section also notes that more more than five groups may not be on a carrier. I do not know for sure if breaking a squadron down counts as multiple groups but it may.


quote:

Squadrons broken up to thirds count as 1/3 of the squadron. So you can actually have 4 squadron and 3 thirds and be still operable.


Played a friend in a face-to-face Coral Sea scenario and he had multiple groups on-board (over 5) due to recovery efforts and that carrier still carried on air ops. Was probably within the parameters stated above.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 19
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 6:27:29 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Also note that Carrier Capable but not Carrier Trained will suffer a higher rate of operational losses. (7.01.1.1)


Not that I've ever noticed, although that is what it says.

quote:

The same section also notes that more more than five groups may not be on a carrier. I do not know for sure if breaking a squadron down counts as multiple groups but it may.


quote:

Squadrons broken up to thirds count as 1/3 of the squadron. So you can actually have 4 squadron and 3 thirds and be still operable.


Played a friend in a face-to-face Coral Sea scenario and he had multiple groups on-board (over 5) due to recovery efforts and that carrier still carried on air ops. Was probably within the parameters stated above.


Fragments (from emergency landings and such) may count against the limit; I'm not sure.

It's also possible that simply the "first five" (contrast with the Final Five) would fly operations.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 20
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 6:45:15 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Fragments (from emergency landings and such) may count against the limit; I'm not sure.


I would think they do.

quote:

It's also possible that simply the "first five" (contrast with the Final Five) would fly operations.


This I doubt, but I've no experience in the matter. TBH the comments I made above about the five group limit were to show my friend how the game worked, as we were actually looking at each others' moves more or less. It was a learning game for him. I was surprised when the carrier operated its aircraft, and told him it must be in relation to the fragments. One thing for sure is that the carrier had more than five units or parts thereof on board. Oh, and to clarify a bit it was well under its maximum capacity for carrying planes.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 21
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/3/2018 10:00:39 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Fragments (from emergency landings and such) may count against the limit; I'm not sure.


I would think they do.

quote:

It's also possible that simply the "first five" (contrast with the Final Five) would fly operations.


This I doubt, but I've no experience in the matter. TBH the comments I made above about the five group limit were to show my friend how the game worked, as we were actually looking at each others' moves more or less. It was a learning game for him. I was surprised when the carrier operated its aircraft, and told him it must be in relation to the fragments. One thing for sure is that the carrier had more than five units or parts thereof on board. Oh, and to clarify a bit it was well under its maximum capacity for carrying planes.

Maybe once you have six different units, no matter the number of aircraft, flying ops cease because the pilots are fighting over the bunk space and magazines to read in the heads ...

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 22
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/4/2018 7:45:00 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		A clear example.
This is the air compliment this CV enters with (not B25s).
Between 110% and 115% over capacity and air ops are orange not red.




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Hans


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Post #: 23
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 1:22:16 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I have not experienced problems with active planes at <115%. Reserve planes aren't even counted toward that figure, as far as I can tell. Look at the number on the ship info screen. The number of aircraft counted will be in yellow if above 100% but less than 115%. Reserve aircraft (so long as you don't overdo it) won't be included in that number. I just haven't had a carrier fail to send strikes as long as the capacity taken number was below 115%. If you have too many reserve aircraft, they will start registering in the capacity used number.

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Post #: 24
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 1:30:45 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Let me put this another way, just to be clear. Reserve squadron aircraft that don't register in the capacity used number are ignored. They do not count as part of the 15% overage you are allowed while still being fully operational. I'm not recommending that you max out your numbers aboard, in a battle you may need some space to recover planes from sunk carriers, after all.

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Post #: 25
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 2:12:29 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Let me put this another way, just to be clear. Reserve squadron aircraft that don't register in the capacity used number are ignored. They do not count as part of the 15% overage you are allowed while still being fully operational. I'm not recommending that you max out your numbers aboard, in a battle you may need some space to recover planes from sunk carriers, after all.

I went back and checked one of my carriers and you are correct, Yorktown has 105 aircraft showing in total but more than that if you count in the reserve aircraft. My carrier based squadrons can only have three reserve aircraft each.
I do wonder if the spares could play into whether you can disband a fragment of another (emergency landed) unit and have the aircraft go into the carrier squadrons instead of being destroyed. Haven't had to do that yet so I don't know what would happen.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 26
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 3:02:50 AM   
pbiggar


Posts: 71
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Status: offline 		Can someone help me to understand why this CV is over the limit when the squadron seems to have less planes?





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Post #: 27
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 3:41:21 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbiggar

Can someone help me to understand why this CV is over the limit when the squadron seems to have less planes?






The air unit is not equipped with a carrier capable aircraft model. Each non carrier capable model airframe counts as 4 carrier capable airframes.

Alfred

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Post #: 28
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/5/2018 2:50:22 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: pbiggar

Can someone help me to understand why this CV is over the limit when the squadron seems to have less planes?


The air unit is not equipped with a carrier capable aircraft model. Each non carrier capable model airframe counts as 4 carrier capable airframes.

Alfred

Once again Alfred has the sharp eye and a nugget of information that explains all! Several other players (me included) have learned in the past that you need to wait for the Corsair F4U-1A before you have a carrier-capable model.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 29
RE: CV has 1 too many planes - 7/6/2018 2:53:42 AM   
pbiggar


Posts: 71
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks so much. They squadron is carrier trained, just not flying carrier capable planes yet. I await the good times with the Corsair 4FU-1A.

Much appreciated.

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Post #: 30
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