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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 11:01:00 AM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Ian,

I hate communication mix ups!

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 12:29:56 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like just before I ended the turn. I'm worried about
the north coast and the north MLR because the Italians aren't up to snuff
like the Germans might be.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 3:40:27 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		3rd September 1943

Finally the Americans strike and break through Italian positions east of Tortorici thanks to combined arms from 1st US Armoured and elements of 2nd and 3rd US Divisions supported by heavy air bombardments. The salient is not totally secure but hopefully should either prompt the German Panzer Grenadiers north and south to abandon their dug in positions to counter attack or else risk being encircled.

KG Hudel to the south is forced back from its marauding by a British Guards Recon unit and after an initial check the British continue to gain ground up the east coast.

Thankfully, and not before time the artillery assets of the Axis on Sicily are taking some serious damage which hopefully will help precipitate a breakthrough in the east too.



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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 4:52:40 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Ian is slowly makeing inroads and I'm having to rearrange the units so as to
plug the gaps and put the units where they make the best possible defense and
prevent breakthroughs.




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Post #: 64
RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 6:01:04 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		7th September 1943

US offensive continues and breaks through another line of defence leaving the Allies about 25Km from Messina but it is then halted by furious Italian artillery barrages in support of the retreating Panzer Grenadiers and 60 Infantry squads are lost by the Allies in the maelstrom....

Another 5km is gained by the British but it seems as Larry predicted it may be the north western front that may eventually break the resistance of the defenders.

KG Hudel is destroyed in the south and only an isolated HQ unit remains at large in the newly conquered areas in the south west.

More elements of 1st British Airborne arrive as reinforcements and news arrives that the German Sardinian Division has been evacuated to the mainland and renamed the 90th Division.

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 6:28:08 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		It's time to pull back to the Alamo perimeter with the Germans and let the
Italians surrender and leave the war behind. Messina is the site for the
spawning of several units for the past few turns and I'm moving them to the
area NE of Messina to make room for more. I'm wondering if it's time to
deploy the Axis aircraft to the toe yet.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/20/2018 6:53:41 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I see where I have only a single FW-190A (late) and that means the units are
soaking them up as fast as they are being built and I've found a squadron that
needs a bunch more to be full and I'm guessing that I'll have to hold it back
from combat for about a month or more. I need to find the other squadrons
flying these things and stand them down too.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 5:36:56 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		10th September 1943

The American 7th Army takes over the heavy lifting this turn as with the exception of a battered battalion strength force all of the Italian units left behind as a rearguard are destroyed and there is shelling of the port at Messina of troops waiting to board evacuation ferries.

There was an interesting development this turn with the unwelcome and surprising reappearance of the Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica which appeared to try and stop the transport of 345th US Tank Destroyer Regiment from Tunisia by sea and repeatedly attempted interdiction. Fortunately the CAP did its job and the Americans were unscathed though left stuck on board but this started a pattern as the Axis air assets continued to try to intervene in the ground battles with the Italians. By turn end estimates were around 95 Axis losses to 30 or so Allied ones but it has nonetheless concentrated minds in Allied Air Command which had been getting somewhat complacent.....

Most Allied artillery got a much needed rest this turn, as did the British as there will now be the tougher task of clearing the German rearguard...



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Post #: 68
RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 7:47:34 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looked like just before I ended my turn. I did a survey of
the air fleet and found about a dozen Ju-88A squadrons that were missing a
lot of planes and that's my fault for comitting the bombers before I did
some sweeps with the fighters. It seems like about 30 bombers are missing.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 7:49:51 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the aircraft parameters from the inventory dialog.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 10:08:41 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
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Status: offline 		14th September 1943

In a masterly game of "expectations management" beloved by political parties everywhere...having now fallen a month behind the historic timetable of the fall of Messina Clark and Montgomery target the end of September as a deadline for capturing the city...that being the day Larry captured it in the reverse fixture.

Given how close he came to taking Brenner Pass and that he still managed a minor victory in the scenario without it I would still have a decent shot at victory.

The remaining Italians are destroyed in the pocket south of Falcone and a bombardment of the Italian heavy guns north west of Messina and Messina itself is underway. Allied air attempts to assist with the bombardment in Messina but heavy AA cover causes several losses. The air war was more even this turn with about 40 planes lost each but I am happy with this as the Allies have much more resilience in this area.






< Message edited by devoncop -- 5/21/2018 10:09:45 AM >

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 11:28:18 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like currently.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 11:58:47 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
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Status: offline 		17th September 1943

3rd US Division this time gets a bloody nose from dug in FJ and 15th Panzer Grenadiers so only minor progress but the defences on the Italian mainland are starting to get some attention with naval bombardments north of Calabria.

Supply to the East coast has finally been improved markedly with the rail line repair and with the perimeter reducing around Messina it is anticipated the British will be in good condition to move quickly once a mainland invasion is ordered.

In the air the Italian fighters took the brunt of Axis losses but this is one area I am at least happy with.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 3:14:26 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		20th September 1943

Drama !

RAF intelligence flights over Messina having revealed the presence of mainly artillery and Flak assets along with a small Italian Marine garrison it is decided to throw the kitchen sink at Messina in terms of air and artillery assets including naval support and try a landing in force by the fresh Free French Division based in Tunisia to effectively cut off the remaining Germans in Sicily between Messina and the attacking US and British forces from the south and west of the city.

Initially the plan was successful as the garrison took heavy casualties from the shelling as the French approached the Messina docks....hasty messages however from the garrison to German Panzer Grenadiers stationed on the city outskirts saw the Germans arrive just as the Italian marines and other units in the city were being forced back. The French, unable to dig in were forced to retreat from the beaches and were left floating offshore and the Allied military ships were ordered to try and protect them from expected Luftwaffe attack...........Losses were 23% to the Axis and 12% to the Allies but this amounted to 60 Infantry squads for the French and only a dozen or so for the Axis. An enquiry into the failures of military intelligence has been launched...



Elsewhere continued slow progress towards Messina by the Americans was reported though the 3rd Division again was checked by the stubborn FJ Regiment thanks to artillery support.

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 7:35:17 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Ian,

Good try. That was a neat idea.

Larry,

Your defence seems to be holding strong. Well done

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Post #: 75
RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/21/2018 7:38:48 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		24th September 1943

The Free French Division are left untouched by Axis airpower so slink back to Syracuse to lick their wounds save for a single battalion in reorganisation off Messina.

1st Armoured Division along with support from 3rd US Division and all available artillery force back a Stug Regiment dug in to the south of Messina and the Allies are finally only 10Km from the city.

Larry has managed to extricate a lot of units but plenty of Panzer Grenadiers remain on the island in the Messina perimeter so it will be interesting to see how he approaches this now.



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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 5:49:41 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		28th September 1943

A sustained assault by US 1st Armoured Divn supported by the British Royal tank Regiment smashes through German resistance including some arriving Panzer Grenadiers from Messina and gains another 5Km for relatively little loss south of the city leaving British and American tanks at the gates of the elusive prize on the main road.

The city still has considerable numbers of 88mm Guns and over 40 Panzer II and Panzer IV tanks and has the still formidable Italian Heavy gun units in support however so the (new) deadline of the end of September will slip again.

The Free French Division goes sailing again.....


< Message edited by devoncop -- 5/22/2018 5:58:08 AM >

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 6:13:15 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the front lines just before I ended the turn. This is just about the
best I can do with the units I have at hand. Ian almost has the port now.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 8:10:36 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		2nd October 1943

Messina falls !

(For now)

After furious fighting the 8th Army,despite heavy losses from entrenched German defenders with air support and supported by 2nd and 3rd US Divisions storms Messina from the south whilst diversionary attacks go in against the FJ troops just to the north west of the city ....The city barely fell so a counter attack is now expected and the fight may yet not be over for the city. Fresh troops are hurrying to exploit the breakthrough and it is hoped remaining German troops on Sicily will surrender......(I am an optimist)...

I really need the armoured units in Messina just to hold this turn...

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Post #: 79
RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 10:37:44 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I used what units were nearby and did a three-dot attack that
took back the city but then failed a proficiency test and the
turn ended with only a small armor unit in the Messina hex and
Ian should have no problem taking back the city and keeping it
next turn. That will force all the units on the island to be
out of supply and therefore can't be disbanded and that means
that Ian will eventually destroy all of them.

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 11:54:51 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		5th October 1943

Renewed assaults on Messina cause further losses to the Allies but the city is retaken and on a more secure footage. The RAF and USAAC have been tasked to provide all necessary support to keep the city safe.

In other news the Free French Division overwhelm the Italian garrison at Cagliari on Sardinia with naval support as the next phase of the liberation of Italy finally gets underway.

The Allied Divisions on Sicily have been heavily damaged in the fighting in the East and will need some recuperation though a fresh Indian Division arrived and has been awaiting orders in Syracuse and further reinforcements will be released with the fall of Messina.

Importantly more German reinforcements in Sicily should now stop.



< Message edited by devoncop -- 5/22/2018 2:04:34 PM >

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 1:00:52 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop
5th October 1943

Renewed assaults on Messina cause further losses to the Allies but the city is retaken and on a more secure footage. The RAF and USAF have been tasked to provide all necessary support to keep the city safe.

Hey Ian....The USAF wasn't called the USAF until September 18, 1947 and before that it was known as the US Army Air Corps. I think the first commander of the USAF was Gen. Curtis Lemay, but I'm not sure. I'll have to Google that and find out.

EDIT: Lemay served as the USAF Chief of Staff starting in 1948, promoted to the position from being commander of SAC.


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/22/2018 1:07:57 PM >

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 2:05:57 PM   
devoncop


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Joined: 7/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop
5th October 1943

Renewed assaults on Messina cause further losses to the Allies but the city is retaken and on a more secure footage. The RAF and USAF have been tasked to provide all necessary support to keep the city safe.

Hey Ian....The USAF wasn't called the USAF until September 18, 1947 and before that it was known as the US Army Air Corps. I think the first commander of the USAF was Gen. Curtis Lemay, but I'm not sure. I'll have to Google that and find out.

EDIT: Lemay served as the USAF Chief of Staff starting in 1948, promoted to the position from being commander of SAC.



Thanks Larry !!

(Above post edited to remove my ignorance)



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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 4:38:46 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Very interesting AAR. Thanks guys!

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 5:12:33 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Very interesting AAR. Thanks guys!



Thanks John

Hopefully the enjoyment I am getting out of my ham fisted efforts to eject Larry from occupied Europe comes through....it really is a fascinating scenario.

What Larry is VERY good at is getting maximum "bang for buck" from his formations. Properly supported infantry by artillery that is both concentrated and rested has been responsible for a lot of the casualties the Allies have incurred. My eye for detail is not what it should be but I am learning the hard way

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/22/2018 11:29:51 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Ian,

As ever, you are too hard on yourself. This is a fun AAR and I enjoy the two styles of play.


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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/23/2018 12:17:04 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

What Larry is VERY good at is getting maximum "bang for buck" from his formations.

Well, thank you very much. I've been practicing for a while now and I think maybe it's starting
to pay off.

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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/23/2018 11:07:54 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Ian sent me a PM, thank goodness, to let me know that the moves are in my court
and so I must have deleted the email intending to do my moves right away and for
some reason didn't do my moves right away and soon forgot about the moves being
in my court. And there were no turns for a while. Time wasted. Sorry everybody.




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RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/23/2018 3:18:31 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		5th October 1943

The ferocious fighting amongst the narrow streets of Messina continues as the Stugs and Panzers again counter attack and throw out the bloodied Americans holding the city. An Allied response is immediately ordered and the American and British troops to the south now hit the Germans hard again and again retake the city destroying all 21 of the StuGs and for now Messina is again under Allied control.... (or what is left of Messina is anyway !)

In Sardinia the Free French push out from Cagliari causing heavy losses to the Italian Coastal troops in the area.

The Indian Division is ordered to the Messina area to try and finish the job of securing the island of Sicily once and for all.


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Post #: 89
RE: Yet Another Sicily t BP Ian Allies me Axis - 5/23/2018 6:36:15 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		There's an early morning fog over the west coast of the Italian mainland so
the recon flights couldn't spy what's in the ports but it was clear over
Sicily so everything is exposed. Ian took back Messina without using the
ships for support, I'm impressed.

I'm thinking of pulling all the German stuff to immediately around Messina
for mutual support and so that the arty will all be in one spot for protection.
I'm going to turn the airplanes on again because now the mainland is at risk.

I don't expect the remnants to last very long.




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