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RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v1.11.02

 
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RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 5/29/2018 4:48:50 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Well damn M60 perhaps I should have been clearer- can you elaborate on what the true costs are? :)


Normally I'd tell you to find out for yourself, but since you come from Dallas and I enjoyed living there at one time, I will tell you.

Division = 5
Brigade = 3


Well I have just merged 4 rifle divisions into 2 rifle divisions at zero (0) cost of Admin points using the Merge function. I assume we are talking at cross purposes?



I really don't know. You tell me.


(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 31
RE: no morale loss - 5/29/2018 7:01:11 AM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I think that has been done to encourage Soviet commanders to attack German units a bit more aggressively. The problem is morale in game doesn't equal ''morale'' per se, its rather a combo of morale, cohesion and organisation as far as I know. Can anyone tell me what the range command does? Restricts flying space?

(in reply to BrianG)
Post #: 32
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 5/30/2018 4:15:08 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

Well damn M60 perhaps I should have been clearer- can you elaborate on what the true costs are? :)


Normally I'd tell you to find out for yourself, but since you come from Dallas and I enjoyed living there at one time, I will tell you.

Division = 5
Brigade = 3


Well I have just merged 4 rifle divisions into 2 rifle divisions at zero (0) cost of Admin points using the Merge function. I assume we are talking at cross purposes?



I really don't know. You tell me.



Hey, I have confirmed your results. I had to use my 'live' multiplayer game to find enough units that match the merge criteria.

Merging 2 divs cost 5 points, merging a div and brigade cost 3 points. Note these units were in supply.

In another game against the AI I merged 2 divs and the cost was zero. These units were not in supply.

Do we have a bug?



_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 33
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 5/30/2018 9:03:53 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Guess this comes from the other change - merged units are treated as destroyed and will return in X weeks. And since destroyed units cost APs to rebuild... this is the final effect. So M60A3TTS the changelog is actually true. Merge is free (was not), but rebuild of destroyed units is not free :)
Now, whether this is something to fix - I don't know. Seems to me it could be abused when your units are in bad situation - merge as many as you can to get free rebuilds. So I guess this has to stay.
After all I've saved you 1 AP and your merged unit will return so those APs are not lost (and if you'll merge when at 0 AP this will be free).

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 34
RE: no morale loss - 5/30/2018 6:25:51 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Thanks to Dennis and Morvael for your work

quote:

9. In land battles, in which the attacker lost, there will be no morale changes for either attacker or defender.

Very bad new for the axis player in the late war...

quote:

14. To inflate losses in battle which were universally perceived as too low, men that went to the disabled pool during battle will be no longer shown as DAM, but will be included in the LOST value. DAM value will instead represent the number of men in damaged elements, multiplied by 50% (for the Soviet), and 40% (for the Axis). This represents the number of men that may be lost during the next logistics phase, when damaged elements will be sent to pool or discarded.

Could you detail or show an example please.

I've played 2 turns under 1.11.02 and it seems that losses have greatly increased

(in reply to BrianG)
Post #: 35
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 5/31/2018 3:52:07 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Guess this comes from the other change - merged units are treated as destroyed and will return in X weeks. And since destroyed units cost APs to rebuild... this is the final effect. So M60A3TTS the changelog is actually true. Merge is free (was not), but rebuild of destroyed units is not free :)
Now, whether this is something to fix - I don't know. Seems to me it could be abused when your units are in bad situation - merge as many as you can to get free rebuilds. So I guess this has to stay.
After all I've saved you 1 AP and your merged unit will return so those APs are not lost (and if you'll merge when at 0 AP this will be free).

So if you want to Merge for free use up all your Admin points first....Like all good Soviets do anyway...

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 36
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/1/2018 1:21:41 PM   
boudi

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 1/7/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

20. Disabled “both” night missions mode, it will be no longer possible to select that option.


In a new game, it's seems that i can still select day/night bombing mission ?

(in reply to HybridSpyda)
Post #: 37
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/1/2018 5:46:53 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		day or night but not both at the same time/turn

(in reply to boudi)
Post #: 38
RE: no morale loss - 6/1/2018 7:28:19 PM   
Blubel2

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 5/10/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

9. In land battles, in which the attacker lost, there will be no morale changes for either attacker or defender.

Very bad new for the axis player in the late war...


I agree. I think that this will kill the late game.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 39
RE: no morale loss - 6/1/2018 8:51:41 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Keep in mind it also does the reverse for 41/42

(in reply to Blubel2)
Post #: 40
RE: no morale loss - 6/1/2018 9:00:51 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Keep in mind it also does the reverse for 41/42

impact isn't the same, average russian morale is low in 41/42 and growing.

One of german key asset in late war is morale of inf units but national morale is declining, thus winning battle is an absolute necessity for axis players.


(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 41
RE: no morale loss - 6/1/2018 10:21:56 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		By reverse I did not mean solely from an axis standpoint I more meant the effects nation wise as late game it will be in Soviet favour while 41-42 it will be in Axis favour

I am guessing that now all skill levels will find 42 Axis easier to be dominant without needing to manage morale as much and also by making it harder for Soviets to gain morale from "held" but from late 42, early 43 I am guessing it would become an ever increasing asset for Soviets?

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 42
RE: no morale loss - 6/2/2018 3:41:37 AM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		I think the changes in this update has bought back some of the bugs from earlier patches...for instance 1st pbem turn, the Germans HAVE NOT been able to make any of
the Security regiments to route..the best outcome is a retreat, with that magical zero appearing for combat results..(morvael fixed the bug).
Also, what is the story with HQ Surrounded & out of supply...I probably wrong, but I thought they were now knock out & not that
magical jump to a safe zone.
On turn 2....just tried to upload copy of map no luck..anyway you have to take my word, armored div taking 13th nkvd reg..3 attacks odds of 999.00 to 1 & you
guessed it 3 retreats..not even a rout in sight! Just had 3 boarder security units retreat until they joined together, now impossible to get them to route ..all they do is retreat.

< Message edited by Icier -- 6/2/2018 4:11:17 AM >

_____________________________

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 43
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/2/2018 4:56:02 PM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		Not sure I understand this one.

"Reworked “too many attackers” penalty. It will now penalize defenders that have less than 4000 men per adjacent hex occupied by enemy units..."

Is that saying defenders who are adjacent to 3 hexes of enemy units will be penalized if they (the defenders) have fewer than 12,000 men in the hex being attacked?

(in reply to HybridSpyda)
Post #: 44
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/2/2018 6:40:08 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Praise morvael for the ability to filter the Air Squadrons according to morale and XP. It save so much micromanagement Time !!

Thank you !!!

(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 45
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/4/2018 9:16:56 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline 		The filtering option is a huge boon, I love it with my heart and soul. Additional small quality of life improvement would be if the filtering in "national reserve" list persisted (when assigning air formations to airfields), so that we wouldn't need to tickbox i.e. fighters and fighter bombers every time for each airfield.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 46
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 5:52:59 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		So playing a new game now....

20 Morale for soviet planes in 1941 seems way to low....before planes wouldnt even commit at morale levels that low...did you change the dice rolls so low morale air units will commit to battle?

It hasnt really been felt yet as many soviet air groups start with 40+ morale but over time those units are going to drop and stop flying. That seems way, way to low.

(in reply to BrianG)
Post #: 47
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 6:04:23 PM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline 		What happened to PBEM? Unable to create game! Doesn't ask for a password and doesn't work at all.

_____________________________

Sorry, i use an online translator :(

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 48
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 8:40:30 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

So playing a new game now....

20 Morale for soviet planes in 1941 seems way to low....before planes wouldnt even commit at morale levels that low...did you change the dice rolls so low morale air units will commit to battle?

It hasnt really been felt yet as many soviet air groups start with 40+ morale but over time those units are going to drop and stop flying. That seems way, way to low.


It's also made sending units to the National Reserve useless in 1941. There are no longer any morale gains when doing so.

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 49
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 10:12:34 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		even in 1942, I doubt soviet planes will fly with morale that low...or a single german fighter will just scare them all away..

I mean you could just remove the soviet airforce from the game until 1943 if you didnt want it in the game.......

I will just call this extremely unrealistic and extremely pro german....in real life one of the main reason the germans couldnt supply stalingrad was soviet fighter interceptions on the supply aircraft...you will never see that with soviet fighters only having a base morale of 20-25 until 1943...absolutely a stupid change.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 50
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 10:21:02 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

even in 1942, I doubt soviet planes will fly with morale that low...or a single german fighter will just scare them all away..

I mean you could just remove the soviet airforce from the game until 1943 if you didnt want it in the game.......

I will just call this extremely unrealistic and extremely pro german....in real life one of the main reason the germans couldnt supply stalingrad was soviet fighter interceptions on the supply aircraft...you will never see that with soviet fighters only having a base morale of 20-25 until 1943...absolutely a stupid change.


I entirely agree. This ranks up there as one of the worst changes implemented in the history of WiTE. Who in the world is coming up with these ideas? If this is supposed to be progress, I would consider it a personal favor if you would stop patching this game. You've done enough damage already.

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 51
RE: no morale loss - 6/4/2018 11:55:31 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

even in 1942, I doubt soviet planes will fly with morale that low...or a single german fighter will just scare them all away..

I mean you could just remove the soviet airforce from the game until 1943 if you didnt want it in the game.......

I will just call this extremely unrealistic and extremely pro german....in real life one of the main reason the germans couldnt supply stalingrad was soviet fighter interceptions on the supply aircraft...you will never see that with soviet fighters only having a base morale of 20-25 until 1943...absolutely a stupid change.


I entirely agree. This ranks up there as one of the worst changes implemented in the history of WiTE. Who in the world is coming up with these ideas? If this is supposed to be progress, I would consider it a personal favor if you would stop patching this game. You've done enough damage already.


This change stemmed from my game with Dinglir where I used the Soviet air force to limit the German. Then again in another game with another player. After that there were a few other Soviet players taking advantage of the Air system for the Soviets. I do not agree with this change and fought it saying that the Germans have the power to stop such actions of the Soviets. But now we have it in this patch :(.

_____________________________


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 52
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 1:58:48 AM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Horrible, and will likely go on. Not the patches, many could have been done differently.

The remarks, the remarks, the remarks.

I almost deleted this, almost.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 53
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 2:38:12 AM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Well Charlie, if it doesn't bother you that a basic game mechanic which has been in place for about six years was gutted without any real community discussion, I don't know what to say. No reason not to post what you did. Like everyone else here, you're entitled to an opinion.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 54
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 3:04:20 AM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Doesn't take much to figure the reason for the air changes in our latest patch were the result of the quite ridiculous and gamey air war exploits which have come along fairly recently.

Yes the latest patch, especially the air parts did come "out of the blue"

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 55
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 10:59:44 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blubel2

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

9. In land battles, in which the attacker lost, there will be no morale changes for either attacker or defender.

Very bad new for the axis player in the late war...


I agree. I think that this will kill the late game.



I'm not so sure. Rarely I had a failed attack in 1944+ with 6-12 rifle corps plus 12-24 support units attacking German divisions all along the front line.

(in reply to Blubel2)
Post #: 56
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 11:03:26 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45
20 Morale for soviet planes in 1941 seems way to low....before planes wouldnt even commit at morale levels that low...did you change the dice rolls so low morale air units will commit to battle?


Perhaps early air war Soviet morale needs a revision, usually it's hard to get major change (tying air group morale to national morale instead of single hardcoded value, and fixing bugs related to lack of trained pilots) right on the first try, so any balancing comes after the reports from the field. As you know we are very limited in our tests, since we have a grand total of 0 testers, thus we're limited to spotting issues during AIvAI tests, and air losses weren't so much different from previous version.

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 57
RE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East Public Beta Update v... - 6/5/2018 11:05:23 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tomeck48

Not sure I understand this one.

"Reworked “too many attackers” penalty. It will now penalize defenders that have less than 4000 men per adjacent hex occupied by enemy units..."

Is that saying defenders who are adjacent to 3 hexes of enemy units will be penalized if they (the defenders) have fewer than 12,000 men in the hex being attacked?


Yes, they need to cover a very long frontline with few men, resulting in a very porous line. It's mainly to offset Axis superhuman regiments (which were better than full units in killing enemies due to initiative bonus).

(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 58
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 12:27:42 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Doesn't take much to figure the reason for the air changes in our latest patch were the result of the quite ridiculous and gamey air war exploits which have come along fairly recently.


As you know your comment on the recent air war was about my bombing of factories in which you included derogatory personal comments about me. When I challenged you about it you backed down. That would have been a very good place to stop. I hope you will back down here too.

As you know there are many interesting threads here discussing tactics such as strategic bombing and soaking attacks. You are welcome to contribute and make suggestions for future changes. These are not just commonly used tactics but are extensively described in the manual and so intended by the developers - see for example 16.3.3.2 in the manual on strategic bombing. If you do not like this game you are also welcome to make your own house rules for your own game.

As we all know you have made many messages in these forums and in private messages calling many of us cheaters/gamey/reloaders etc. I have to ask your to stop those references to me. I think it is also not cool to make comments about others characters or intentions. Keep it about the game.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/5/2018 1:52:07 PM >

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 59
RE: no morale loss - 6/5/2018 1:15:12 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		A blatant lie. Not unexpected.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 60
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