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A spywhare integrated in Civ 6

 
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A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 10:27:37 AM   
Dabo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline 		and in other games too. Here's a l list.
The program is called Red Shell (be aware there’s also a virus with the same name).

The purpose of this software is to track the "device" (PC, console, whatever) it is installed on, observing such things as what game(s) you play, what youtube video(s) you watch, and more, in order to report back to Red Shell's clients about how successful those clients' advertising campaigns are.

I’m not a lawyer but it should be illegal under the new EU’s GDPR if they don’t provide an opt-out. If you’re not an Eu citizen it depends on your country’s legislation.
Some of the companies in the list have removed the software claiming they didn’t know about it (yeah sure). 2K hasn't yet.


< Message edited by Dabo -- 6/16/2018 10:28:14 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 11:21:22 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you for sharing.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 2
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 12:35:22 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabo

and in other games too. Here's a l list.
The program is called Red Shell (be aware there’s also a virus with the same name).

The purpose of this software is to track the "device" (PC, console, whatever) it is installed on, observing such things as what game(s) you play, what youtube video(s) you watch, and more, in order to report back to Red Shell's clients about how successful those clients' advertising campaigns are.

I’m not a lawyer but it should be illegal under the new EU’s GDPR if they don’t provide an opt-out. If you’re not an Eu citizen it depends on your country’s legislation.
Some of the companies in the list have removed the software claiming they didn’t know about it (yeah sure). 2K hasn't yet.



About opt-out. People should not have to opt-out. Instead they should have an option to opt-in. Then there is no need to read all of the crap they throw at you so you can attempt to understand exactly what is being done. Opt-in should be the method, NOT opt-out.

_____________________________

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

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A: A stick.

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 3
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 12:58:40 PM   
Dabo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline 		Agreed, but i don't think that's the way this law works unfortunately, and still it's a big improvement over the older EU legislation.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 4
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 1:49:55 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		Such spyware is why I don't like using networks like Steam. There's no way to know what the code is doing.

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 5
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/16/2018 3:44:47 PM   
sanch

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
...
About opt-out. People should not have to opt-out. Instead they should have an option to opt-in. Then there is no need to read all of the crap they throw at you so you can attempt to understand exactly what is being done. Opt-in should be the method, NOT opt-out.


Back in the '90's, US passed a law requiring telecom companies to allow customers to opt-in before sharing their data. Shortly thereafter, I received a letter from the local phone company explaining how I could opt-out! Huh?

I actually complained to the state Public Utility Control Department. The reply I got back was ...

The FCC, when implementing the opt-in legislation, determined that opt-in really meant opt-out.

So there. The law says opt-in but the implementation is opt-out. Bribery (oops, I really mean 'campaign contributions") at work.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 6
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/18/2018 3:32:32 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline 		In fairness the FCC is (a) always going to be aligned with the governing party, which is a terrible idea, but as designed. And (b) it's now very much worse...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/04/trumps-signature-makes-it-official-isp-privacy-rules-are-dead/

Not political - both US parties enjoy taking campaign contributions from ISPs. But the privacy rules were opt-in (as per an FCC rule) until this legislation was passed.

That said, back OT, and to see this kind of software installed as part of a major game is pretty shocking IMO.

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 7
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/18/2018 3:36:45 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Shocking perhaps, but not surprising.

The young people I discuss such things with doesn't seem bothered. They say that they have nothing to hide...

< Message edited by Orm -- 6/18/2018 3:38:07 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 8
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/18/2018 6:56:35 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

The young people I discuss such things with doesn't seem bothered. They say that they have nothing to hide...

Nothing to hide? Like credit card numbers and online account info including passwords?

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 9
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/18/2018 7:05:41 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

The young people I discuss such things with doesn't seem bothered. They say that they have nothing to hide...

Nothing to hide? Like credit card numbers and online account info including passwords?


Steam does the same thing. I have mentioned it before. Here as a matter of fact. I got the same response from people.

YAWN

And folks wonder why hacking is so prevalent. Many, many people just flat don't care. Some do, but they are a minority.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 10
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/18/2018 11:34:40 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 6/23/2010
Status: offline 		Do you have any sources that the Steam client snoops on or records CC or passwords? Because otherwise...

Cheers

Pip


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follow me on Twitter here

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 11
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 3:20:35 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Will deleting the redshell dll in the Civ VI folder do it, or will it just reappear if/when I start the game?

"My" computer won't let me edit and save the host file per the OP's link instructions.

Doing it more out of principle than anything, as with MS, Adobe and countless others, my computer is probably porous as heck.

Thanks

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 12
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 4:13:15 AM   
zonks

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
They say that they have nothing to hide...


It always amazes me when I hear people say that, they don't realise they are quoting Joseph Goebbels, The minister for Propaganda of Nazi Germany.

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 13
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 7:06:03 AM   
Dabo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Will deleting the redshell dll in the Civ VI folder do it, or will it just reappear if/when I start the game?

As far as i know if you delete redshell.dll the game won't start anymore.
There are a couple of ways to modify the host file:
1) right-click on notepad.exe (or notepad++ if you use it) and click on "Run as administrator", then open the Host file and modify it.
2) copy the Host file somewhere, modify it and then overwrite the original file in "c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc"

(in reply to zonks)
Post #: 14
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 7:15:28 AM   
Dabo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline 		an updated list:

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/191118/games-removing-sdk-amid-spyware-accusations

Games who used Redshell which removed or pledged to remove it (as of 16.06.2018):

Elder Scrolls Online (Pledged to remove it)
Conan Exiles (Pledged to remove it)
Ylands (Removed)
Holy Potatoes! We’re in Space?! (Pledged to remove it)
All Total War games, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide II, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide I, (might get removed also?)
My Time At Portia, (Pledged to remove it)
Dead by Daylight, (Pledged to remove it)
Battlerite, (Pledged to remove it)
AER Memories of Old, (Pledged to remove it)
Magic the Gathering Arena (closed beta & not on Steam), (Pledged to remove it for now)
Secret World Legends (Pledged to remove remains of it)
Hunt: Showdown (Pledged to remove it)
Escapists 2 (Pledged to remove it)
Omensight (Pledged to remove it)

Games still using Redshell according to community reports (as of 16.06.2018):

Civilization VI,
Kerbal Space Program,
Guardians of Ember,
The Onion Knights,
Realm Grinder,
Heroine Anthem Zero,
Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade,
Krosmaga
Eternal Card Game
Sniper Ghost Warrior 3
Astro Boy: Edge of Time
Ballistic Overkill
Cabals: Card Blitz
CityBattle | Virtual Earth
Desolate
Doodle God
Doodle God Blitz
Dungeon Rushers
Labyrinth
My Free Farm 2
NosTale
RockShot
Shadowverse
SOS & SOS Classic
SoulWorker
Stonies
Tales from Candlekeep: Tomb of Annihilation
War Robots
Survived By
Injustice 2
The Wild Eight

New Adds:

Yoku's Island Express
Raging Justice
Warriors: Rise to Glory!
Trailmakers
Clone Drone in the Danger Zone
Vaporum
Robothorium
League of Pirates
Doodle God: Genesis Secrets

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 15
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 1:08:48 PM   
Blond_Knight


Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
They say that they have nothing to hide...


It always amazes me when I hear people say that, they don't realise they are quoting Joseph Goebbels, The minister for Propaganda of Nazi Germany.

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"




Well damn, that quote is even more terrifying now that I know the source.


It should be followed up by Niemoller's:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


< Message edited by Blond_Knight -- 6/19/2018 1:12:40 PM >

(in reply to zonks)
Post #: 16
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/19/2018 10:23:40 PM   
Will_L

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: NYC-Queens
Status: offline 		It was removed from Conan Exiles.

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 17
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/20/2018 3:20:33 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

Do you have any sources that the Steam client snoops on or records CC or passwords? Because otherwise...

Cheers

Pip



I had wireshark's showing a LOT of data going to them every time you log in from a new computer, from a few months ago, while looking at another problem. I didn't break the messages down. From memory it was @ 385k of info. That's a lot more than the cookies folder. Credit Card info, or passwords? I doubt it. But snoops? Guaranteed.

It's on my open PC used to play games, I could care less. There is nothing there but my games, Amazon, and website history. I could roll a grenade into it, and only be down a day. I use a different LAN and PC for privileged info, and that gomer is secure. Still, there is no need for that much info to be sent to a file share operator on logging in.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to PipFromSlitherine)
Post #: 18
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/20/2018 7:36:23 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I had wireshark's showing a LOT of data going to them every time you log in from a new computer, from a few months ago, while looking at another problem. I didn't break the messages down. From memory it was @ 385k of info. That's a lot more than the cookies folder. Credit Card info, or passwords? I doubt it. But snoops? Guaranteed.

It's on my open PC used to play games, I could care less. There is nothing there but my games, Amazon, and website history. I could roll a grenade into it, and only be down a day. I use a different LAN and PC for privileged info, and that gomer is secure. Still, there is no need for that much info to be sent to a file share operator on logging in.

Interesting. Has anyone ever analyzed what gets send over there?

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 19
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 9:45:24 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		This is a storm in a teacup. Loads of games have RedShell and its entire purpose is to work out which marketing campaign generated your sale on Steam, as there is currently no other way to track it back as team does not provide the tools to do that. Its just a tool to help marketeers understand which of their campaigns are working and which not. The idea that its trying to steal your personal data is completely misleading and untrue. We don't use RedShell and don't plan to but can see why developers do. It's just people trying to create a fuss about something that really doesn't matter.

_____________________________

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Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 20
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 11:27:35 AM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		For me the real nuisance is not all the spyware that plays Big Brother.
The real nuisance is that by doing so, it slows down my PC in my activities and that is a storm in my cup of coffee!

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 21
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 12:01:21 PM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		It really shouldn't slow anything down. If it does then they've done it really badly :)

_____________________________

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Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 22
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 12:34:15 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		Especially at present, there is as much spyware on a computer as fleas on a dog.
It is their increasing number which is the embarrassment.

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 23
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 1:41:47 PM   
Dabo

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

to work out which marketing campaign generated your sale on Steam, as there is currently no other way to track it back as team does not provide the tools to do that. Its just a tool to help marketeers understand which of their campaigns are working and which not. The idea that its trying to steal your personal data is completely misleading and untrue.

Glad you don't use it but still it's something that collects my data and phones back the info without my approval (and knowledge) that's pretty much the definition of spyware and it probably violates the new GDPR .


< Message edited by Dabo -- 6/21/2018 1:42:32 PM >

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 24
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 2:43:24 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IainMcNeil

This is a storm in a teacup. Loads of games have RedShell and its entire purpose is to work out which marketing campaign generated your sale on Steam, as there is currently no other way to track it back as team does not provide the tools to do that. Its just a tool to help marketeers understand which of their campaigns are working and which not. The idea that its trying to steal your personal data is completely misleading and untrue. We don't use RedShell and don't plan to but can see why developers do. It's just people trying to create a fuss about something that really doesn't matter.

Yes, I can understand that that is what they want to do. But, in my humble opinion, that is not a nice way to do it. And once they gather that data they might find other way to use that data. And, perhaps, combine it with other sources of data to compile it into a "better" profile.

I think it deserves more objections than I think it currently gets. Although that is just mine humble opinion.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 25
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 4:17:40 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Agreed. As stated earlier, I seriously doubt Steam is stealing banking information, or financial info, or anything at all of that nature. And what they do will not slow down your machine Part of their EULA is they can use information gathered for marketing purposes, just as Ian states. But it was a lot of data gathered. And I am a paranoid little bastage

That same language was used by Facebook, and by a LOT of other file share servers. I have never seen anything like that type of file transfer from Matrix, or GoG. And you have no idea where data gathered will end up, because you do allow it to be distributed as the far end see's fit as a part of the EULA agreements. Your not paranoid if there really is someone out there And a little paranoia when using the internet is a good thing.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 26
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 5:20:10 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Agreed. As stated earlier, I seriously doubt Steam is stealing banking information, or financial info, or anything at all of that nature. And what they do will not slow down your machine Part of their EULA is they can use information gathered for marketing purposes, just as Ian states. But it was a lot of data gathered. And I am a paranoid little bastage

That same language was used by Facebook, and by a LOT of other file share servers. I have never seen anything like that type of file transfer from Matrix, or GoG. And you have no idea where data gathered will end up, because you do allow it to be distributed as the far end see's fit as a part of the EULA agreements. Your not paranoid if there really is someone out there And a little paranoia when using the internet is a good thing.

+1
I pay cash everywhere I can, just so the merchant doesn't get any info about me that could be misused or stolen.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 27
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 6/21/2018 7:41:17 PM   
sanch

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
...
+1
I pay cash everywhere I can, just so the merchant doesn't get any info about me that could be misused or stolen.


And when they ask for my phone number, I just say "Sorry, unlisted." for the exact same reasons.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 28
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 10/16/2018 8:48:29 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabo

and in other games too. Here's a l list.
The program is called Red Shell (be aware there’s also a virus with the same name).

The purpose of this software is to track the "device" (PC, console, whatever) it is installed on, observing such things as what game(s) you play, what youtube video(s) you watch, and more, in order to report back to Red Shell's clients about how successful those clients' advertising campaigns are.

I’m not a lawyer but it should be illegal under the new EU’s GDPR if they don’t provide an opt-out. If you’re not an Eu citizen it depends on your country’s legislation.
Some of the companies in the list have removed the software claiming they didn’t know about it (yeah sure). 2K hasn't yet.


Is anyone aware of an update to this?

(in reply to Dabo)
Post #: 29
RE: A spywhare integrated in Civ 6 - 10/16/2018 11:26:42 PM   
Gilmer


Posts: 1452
Joined: 7/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IainMcNeil

This is a storm in a teacup. Loads of games have RedShell and its entire purpose is to work out which marketing campaign generated your sale on Steam, as there is currently no other way to track it back as team does not provide the tools to do that. Its just a tool to help marketeers understand which of their campaigns are working and which not. The idea that its trying to steal your personal data is completely misleading and untrue. We don't use RedShell and don't plan to but can see why developers do. It's just people trying to create a fuss about something that really doesn't matter.


Let me the first to say, don't ever plan to and don't change your minds!!

_____________________________

"Venimus, vidimus, Deus vicit" John III Sobieski as he entered Vienna on 9/11/1683. "I came, I saw, God conquered."
He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
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