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OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 2:11:51 AM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline 		http://theothermccain.com/2018/06/17/tip-pentagon-covering-up-fact-that-female-officers-nearly-sank-navy-ship/
Post #: 1
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 2:17:18 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 2
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 4:33:31 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.



< Message edited by spence -- 6/23/2018 4:34:33 AM >

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 3
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 11:33:01 AM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.



The correct terminology from my day in the navy would be:

“With all due respect sir; pull your head out of your @ss”

The problem I think is time. Naval Officers these days are trained to be fully proficient in climate change, race relations, sexual harassment, transgender and LGBT studies, politically correct speech, women’s empowerment studies, cultural appropriation and cultural sensitivity.

They just don’t have the time to study basic seamanship.

That as well as the fact that an officer has to spend a lot of time thinking carefully about what they say
when one slight off color remark can can trigger someone and end their naval career.

As an example if an officer on bridge watch was to say something like:
“Hey, I just got a new optical sight for my AR-15 rifle and its a real beauty”.

A remark like that could trigger the entire bridge crew and they may curl up into the full fetal position and begin to whine and cry. That could cause a collision.



(in reply to spence)
Post #: 4
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 2:20:51 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?

_____________________________


(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 5
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 2:48:23 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		In my WitP:AE games I do get collisions and I doubt there are any women on board.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 6
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 3:10:38 PM   
pbiggar


Posts: 71
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Status: offline 		I thought this site was for talking about the most awesome WWII Pacific War game in history and other equally cool stuff?
Let’s all go and play another turn and close this thread.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 7
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 3:49:02 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.



The correct terminology from my day in the navy would be:

“With all due respect sir; pull your head out of your @ss”

The problem I think is time. Naval Officers these days are trained to be fully proficient in climate change, race relations, sexual harassment, transgender and LGBT studies, politically correct speech, women’s empowerment studies, cultural appropriation and cultural sensitivity.

They just don’t have the time to study basic seamanship.

That as well as the fact that an officer has to spend a lot of time thinking carefully about what they say
when one slight off color remark can can trigger someone and end their naval career.

As an example if an officer on bridge watch was to say something like:
“Hey, I just got a new optical sight for my AR-15 rifle and its a real beauty”.

A remark like that could trigger the entire bridge crew and they may curl up into the full fetal position and begin to whine and cry. That could cause a collision.








There is far too much tinfoil in these parts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 8
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 4:33:04 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		So, you have to wonder if the crew set the OOD up. As others have noted, there were likely at least 5 other naval personnel who should have been aware. Either collectively they were all texting when they should have had "eyes out" (our terminology for being aware of the space in which you are operating) or …


To say such things don't happen is to ignore both history and human nature. I'm of the age where I witnessed the 'integration' of other minority groups into the general flow and, very sorry to say, I was witness to any mumber of rather poor behaviors on the part of individuals who otherwise were excellent people.

I wasn't there, so I cannot possibly know. But the evidence publically presented is not passing the 'sniff' test.

Having reached this conclusion, the solution is anything but easy or obvious. Trust is earned, not ordered. And when you are talking about teams where the collective team's lives are on the line, well ... That the bar for this OOD is likely higher than someone else isn't fair, but it is also the price of admission (sadly). Historically, this has been the path and there doesn't appear to be an easier way. Hopefully in 10 years or so, this particular minority will be fully integrated.



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 9
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 6:25:28 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.

EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html



< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 6/23/2018 6:32:43 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 10
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/23/2018 7:55:15 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.

EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html



All of those 'never were any' comments were sarcasm.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/24/2018 3:20:31 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.

EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html



All of those 'never were any' comments were sarcasm.


Yeah, I was being facetious.

I had a thought that maybe I should've made each individual word a link to a separate incident that occurred without involving any female officers.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 12
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/24/2018 4:59:38 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Yeah, I was being facetious.

I had a thought that maybe I should've made each individual word a link to a separate incident that occurred without involving any female officers.


That would have been very cool!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 13
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/24/2018 1:41:09 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		Let’s stick to the game and avoid politics, plenty of other places on internet for it

< Message edited by jamesjohns -- 6/24/2018 1:48:08 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/24/2018 9:20:04 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		This kind of misogynistic , slanted writing is not worth posing here. What point are you trying to make? Women are not up to the job? Why don't you look up Tammie Jo Shults and tell me female Navy officers are not up to the job. Unfortunately I didn't see the name of the propaganda organization that started the smear job...the junk paper Washington Times, until the end of the article. The the nitwit author posts this as absolute fact "Another fun fact: In the Navy that won WWII, the damage control officers were usually some of the biggest and strongest men aboard" while offering no back up whatsoever except his opinion. I guess he failed to mention what ship he served on in WWII and what battles he saw these giant damage control perform these heroic actions. I really expect more from this forum and don't know how the mods missed this. I have not had to block a member in a long time, but unfortunately....I had to block the original poster. We are better than this. grind your ax elsewhere

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 6/24/2018 10:22:54 PM >

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 15
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 3:05:27 AM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting JohnDillworth. I agree with your post and that this board and the vast majority of posters are better than this

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 16
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 3:54:26 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!


(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 17
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 4:09:33 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!



Can you bury hatchets there, too?

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 18
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 4:27:23 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		https://news.usni.org/2018/06/06/navy-study-finds-junior-swos-major-gaps-seamanship-ship-handling-knowledge
Navy Study Finds Junior SWOs Have Major Gaps in Seamanship, Ship Handling Knowledge

“Of the 164 officers assessed, only 27 Completed No Concerns, 108 Completed Some Concerns and 29 had Significant Concerns. In short, this confirms we have work to do.”

The study also found that the practical application of the maritime rules of the road was a deficiency in the junior officers quizzed. While 91 percent passed the written test, “more than half of the officers assessed struggled to correctly apply rules of the road during encounters in the scenario,”


Not surprising, even if they were all men, when PC takes over being pious(political replaces religious in this case) is the name of the game.

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 19
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 7:59:03 PM   
FlyByKnight


Posts: 245
Joined: 10/8/2016
From: West Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!



Can you bury hatchets there, too?

I'm sure there's a mod for that.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 20
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/25/2018 8:51:51 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!



Do Gunnys also use that one to grind recruit a$$es, or just hold officer candidates noses to it?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 21
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/26/2018 2:09:02 AM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		A


< Message edited by jamesjohns -- 6/26/2018 2:10:54 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 22
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/26/2018 9:42:32 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		a

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 23
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/26/2018 10:02:34 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		Typical Damage Control Officers of past generations......





Damage Control Officers in action

Somewhere in the South Pacific they position planes for take-off



Ship lost power, Damage Control Officer steps in



Emergency Repairs





(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 24
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 4:25:51 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		DC, after an engine casualty, in The Good Ole Days






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 25
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 4:45:42 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I do not understand why it was so wrong to link the article that starts this thread. Regardless of what one thinks of the article itself.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 26
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 5:13:45 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		Whole point of the article was to insinuate women are not fit to serve in the U.S. Navy. Factually full of holes, poorly researched and uses a primary source that trades in climate change denial, Obama is a secret Muslim crackpot theories. Lots went wrong in those incidents, I’ve read the reports. To blame it on gender, when none of the official evidence supports that ridiculous assertion, is offensive.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 27
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 5:25:39 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 12/2/2013
Status: offline 		Agreed,

Competence or incompetence in the military (or any organization) is nothing new and not related to sex, race, or creed. The article and source it is from, at best, ignored that fact

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 28
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 5:27:49 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Yup. And based on the OP's posts in the prior thread it was clearly his intention to continue claiming such.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to jamesjohns)
Post #: 29
RE: OT: Update on Collision - 6/27/2018 5:31:05 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Whole point of the article was to insinuate women are not fit to serve in the U.S. Navy. Factually full of holes, poorly researched and uses a primary source that trades in climate change denial, Obama is a secret Muslim crackpot theories. Lots went wrong in those incidents, I’ve read the reports. To blame it on gender, when none of the official evidence supports that ridiculous assertion, is offensive.

Thank you.

My thinking, however, is that if what all you say is true about the article then I think it is still important to share knowledge about such a article. Preferably with comments about the articles faults although that can be difficult to do here without breaking the forum rules.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 30
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