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OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/28/2018 2:17:53 AM   
Footslogger


Posts: 1232
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From: Washington USA
Status: offline 		Saw this article:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-leaked-photo-shows-that-china-is-building-a-supercarrier-that-could-rival-the-us-nimitz-class-carriers/ar-BBL9yaX?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/28/2018 2:38:26 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Interesting.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/28/2018 7:07:33 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
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Status: offline 		I still think it will take the PRC many years to match the expertise of 80+ years of running a CV fleet, they'd be more like the Kreigsmarine sending out "convoy raiders"

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/28/2018 7:26:46 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffroK

I still think it will take the PRC many years to match the expertise of 80+ years of running a CV fleet, they'd be more like the Kreigsmarine sending out "convoy raiders"

Don't underestimate them. I am sure they have downloaded all the USN training/maintenance manuals and operational guides. Their people seem to have a fanatical devotion to duty that may overcome their experience disadvantage - i.e. they will work hard with less grumbling than the average matelot!

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/29/2018 6:23:47 PM   
joey


Posts: 1408
Joined: 5/8/2004
From: Johnstown, PA
Status: offline 		Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/29/2018 7:17:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.


Regional.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/29/2018 7:33:46 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

As part of the consolidation of power and growth of the Ming Dynasty, Zheng was tasked with exploring the Western Seas, essentially the Indian Ocean region. By all accounts, not only was the scale of his seven voyages impressive, but the size of the Chinese ships dwarfed anything that had been seen before – and it would take centuries before they would be matched. National Geographic writes, “All the ships of Columbus and da Gama combined could have been stored on a single deck of a single vessel in the fleet that set sail under Zheng He”.[2]
Even more staggering are the details of his armada. One historian has noted that the size of his fleet would not be matched until after World War Two. A BBC report states that Zheng’s first voyage in 1405 had a fleet larger than the combined fleets of all of Europe.[3]

Not only were the ships larger than any before them – they were better-equipped, including being outfitted with magnetised compasses and watertight bulkhead compartments. It would be hundreds of years before European ships would carry similar technology. Reports also noted that the fleet had its own vegetable patches onboard.


an earlier Chinese admiral

Maybe they want to go back to these days. But at least the Western explorers were allowed to keep a couple of things that he wasn't.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/29/2018 10:53:32 PM   
jamesjohns

 

Posts: 135
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Status: offline 		A Nation with 1 billion people, nuclear weapons, a large commitment to developing science and engineering, a large industrial base (kind of the worlds assembly line in a way), large number of new factories and industrial technologies that have been build in the last 20-30 years, a record of taking/copying ideas and technology from other countries,

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Post #: 8
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/29/2018 11:46:15 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

. . . a record of taking/copying ideas and technology from other countries,


That sounds like old Rome, England/Great Britain in its Golden days, and the United States in its heyday. That is better than other places where they won't try new things as long as it is peaceful. But in China's case, I think that they are trying to migrate from an Economic and Ideological war to be able wage an actual Offensive War.

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Post #: 9
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 1:34:59 AM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

Don't forget China's submarine building program. It, too, rivals most of the world's nations. China is truly becoming a world military power.


Their nuclear submarine program is best described as "troubled". Their diesels are adequate , but hardly world class. China, like Iran , does have a world class propaganda machine. China DOES have potential , but to achieve it's declared goals must overcome China's greatest enemy. China itself. If it can overcome corruption and poor management practices that make it unable to produce high performance jet engines , let alone effective nuclear submarines. You can say about China the same thing people used to say about Brazil. "IT's the country of the future....and always will be".

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 2:33:54 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		For a communist country, they are better capitalists than we {Americans} are. This dichotomy was prevalent throughout my two trips. I've had the absolutely best service in a restaurant while in China.....and the utter worst service imaginable. Modern construction one street and the next street over were buildings I do not know how they were still standing. Meticulously placed paving stones laid for a sidewalk that had a sudden 6' drop to a doorway without any warning or safety rails. Store owners that would come out and chase off a fake monk trying to sell blessings to save us from the fraud. Every square inch of space has some form of advertisement on it.....in a country that is supposed to be communist. People bending over every which way to help us when they realized we had adopted a Chinese child and businessmen on a plane yelling at us because our daughter threw a tantrum on a plane.

I do not know what the future holds for China, but change is coming. I am hopeful that the change will be for the better.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 6:31:39 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		One of their conundrums is that being an industrial powerhouse imposes a huge price on air quality. I am not sure they will solve it any time soon. Their resilience is that they can afford to lose a million people a year to pollution and still keep operating.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 6:52:13 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		A million? Probably more than that. I read where the one child policy ended up with 75 million more boys than girls. Unless they share, they have a problem - unless they are used as cannon fodder.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 13
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 7:56:13 AM   
JamesM

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: QLD, Australia
Status: offline 		Interesting, I remember reading in the in the manual for Harpoon when it first came out in the 90's an interesting perspective on ships of the Soviet Navy. When western mariners went on boards Soviet ships they had a very low opinion on damaged control systems on Soviet ships. I wonder how good the da,age control systems are on the ships of the Chinese navy, they can meat out some punishment but can they take it?

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Post #: 14
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 8:00:04 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		China happens to be run by a party calling itself the Communist Party, but it isn't small-c communist by any stretch.

I see it running into the same problem as Korea: You can only get so far by copying, and actually creating new and useful things is not easy. After decades of very fast growth, Korea is on track to have lower GDP growth than the U.S. this year and that might not change anytime soon.

Cheers,
CB (ex-Commander Cody--Slitherine just merged my accounts)

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 12:23:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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Status: offline 		No one expects the Korean economy to top the US!

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 12:57:14 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		China releases video of 56-boat drone swarm, near Hong Kong, by Yunzhou-Tech. The drones make the shape of China's aircraft carrier.

"Tests of strike groups involving up to 1,000 drones are underway, technicians told reporters."




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 1:08:37 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		I notice almost ALL the technology is from the Gerald Ford class....


I wonder how that happened?

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Post #: 18
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 1:39:21 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		If history has shown us anything...it should be to never under-estimate the abilities of a determined foe.

On the other hand...it is one thing to build a huge navy...but it also requires a commitment to provide the support to keep it moving.

A former submariner from this very forum used to say..."There are two kinds of ships in the ocean...Submarines...and targets."

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 8:02:56 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

The Nimitz Class


Yeah, were on to the Ford class.

quote:

I notice almost ALL the technology is from the Gerald Ford class....


I wonder how that happened?


Easy enough to know much of what were up to if you read. I mean I've know about some of the innovations for some time now. Electro-mechanical cats, laser type cannon, new arrester gear, and more talk of 'rail guns'. These are there for the eye to at least see the surface of, what's down below is another story.

quote:

A former submariner from this very forum used to say..."There are two kinds of ships in the ocean...Submarines...and targets."


Pretty sure they all say that.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 8:49:15 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Status: offline 		I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 8:58:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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Status: offline 		We just know how well they burn . . .

edited for spelling.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 7/31/2018 1:42:14 AM >

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 22
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 9:07:21 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...


I'm not being dismissive, I see the things China is doing/attempting with great misgivings. Just don't think see could become a global CV power overnight. Its not an easy task to build/field such forces, as we know from playing this game.

Not only is China building military muscle, she's involved in a great many other things that could lead to a greater and easier domination of territory in her backyard. Infrastructure projects, like road building into remote regions, and an 'inland' port are just a couple. On the surface these are to open trade... Where it could lead from there....


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 10:18:51 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...


I'm not being dismissive, I see the things China is doing/attempting with great misgivings. Just don't think see could become a global CV power overnight. Its not an easy task to build/field such forces, as we know from playing this game.

Not only is China building military muscle, she's involved in a great many other things that could lead to a greater and easier domination of territory in her backyard. Infrastructure projects, like road building into remote regions, and an 'inland' port are just a couple. On the surface these are to open trade... Where it could lead from there....


I looks to me that they want to get all the nations around them hooked on easy trade with them to create a sort of dependency. Then it will be easy to pressure them on the geopolitical stuff. Look how all the Airlines have caved in on use of the word Formosa, because China does not recognize it. Just one more tiny step toward isolating those proud people.

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 10:25:07 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...



I'm not being dismissive, I see the things China is doing/attempting with great misgivings. Just don't think see could become a global CV power overnight. Its not an easy task to build/field such forces, as we know from playing this game.

Not only is China building military muscle, she's involved in a great many other things that could lead to a greater and easier domination of territory in her backyard. Infrastructure projects, like road building into remote regions, and an 'inland' port are just a couple. On the surface these are to open trade... Where it could lead from there....


I looks to me that they want to get all the nations around them hooked on easy trade with them to create a sort of dependency. Then it will be easy to pressure them on the geopolitical stuff. Look how all the Airlines have caved in on use of the word Formosa, because China does not recognize it. Just one more tiny step toward isolating those proud people.


They did not like it when the United Kingdom had their opium trade with the Chinese people and I am sure that other countries had a similar hook . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/30/2018 10:26:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...


No irony and maybe they do more in the future. But right now I doubt they have the ability to throw even one ID onto another continent and support it. That makes them a regional power.

I've said it before: Ships only exist to affect operations ashore. A giant carrier? That's nice. But for what?

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/31/2018 12:50:51 AM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...


No irony and maybe they do more in the future. But right now I doubt they have the ability to throw even one ID onto another continent and support it. That makes them a regional power.

I've said it before: Ships only exist to affect operations ashore. A giant carrier? That's nice. But for what?


Intimidation.

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Post #: 27
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/31/2018 2:52:32 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

No one expects the Korean economy to top the US!

I'm talking growth, as in GDP growth rate, not GDP. The Korean economy used to be like China's with 7-10% growth per year. Eventually it dropped to 5% and this year maybe 2%.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/31/2018 3:00:11 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

I've said it before: Ships only exist to affect operations ashore. A giant carrier? That's nice. But for what?


A big troop ship like the US Navy did in 1945, but only after Japan surrendered.

quote:

I'm talking growth, as in GDP growth rate, not GDP. The Korean economy used to be like China's with 7-10% growth per year. Eventually it dropped to 5% and this year maybe 2%.


The bigger the economy gets, the harder it is to keep that high growth rate up. The easy things have been done then it gets harder and more expensive.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 29
RE: OT: Bigger Than The Nimitz Class? - 7/31/2018 3:04:54 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I hope the irony of our American forumites being dismissive of the military capabilities of an Asian nation is not lost on anyone given the fact that we all play WitP...


No irony and maybe they do more in the future. But right now I doubt they have the ability to throw even one ID onto another continent and support it. That makes them a regional power.

I've said it before: Ships only exist to affect operations ashore. A giant carrier? That's nice. But for what?


Intimidation.


If they want to intimidate they should build credible SSNs. A CV is only intimidating if you have the rest of the packages to go with it.

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Post #: 30
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