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Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule

 
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Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/5/2018 8:07:56 PM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		Dear fellow Commanders,

What has been your experience/thoughts regarding the build up for Barbarossa, considering that you cannot have more than 18 units within 10 hexes of Warsaw, in order not to increase Russian mobilization?

Do you keep just 18 units inside of the Warsaw radius and the rest outside of it? For how many turns do you think it is wise to "violate" the 18-units-rule, and allow the Russians to increase mobilization? Do you march the units to the border, or operate them all at once? (the latter option must cost quite some money, of course)

Any insigths into this conundrum will be greatly appreciated
Post #: 1
RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/6/2018 4:41:27 PM   
LordOfPants

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/5/2018
Status: offline 		Two tricks you can try: If you take Lithuania as Germany, you can put units in the northern part of the country and they won't count as they're more than 10 hexes out. Also if you take the 'no polish partition' option lots of the border is more than 10 hexes out, so units pushed as far forward as possible are safe. Obviously both of those involve a jump in Soviet mobilization (especially the no partition), but they're worth knowing about.

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
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RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/7/2018 2:27:12 PM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOfPants

Two tricks you can try: If you take Lithuania as Germany, you can put units in the northern part of the country and they won't count as they're more than 10 hexes out. Also if you take the 'no polish partition' option lots of the border is more than 10 hexes out, so units pushed as far forward as possible are safe. Obviously both of those involve a jump in Soviet mobilization (especially the no partition), but they're worth knowing about.


Thank you, LorfOfPants, both ideas are very interesting!

Now, if one wants to minimize Soviet mobilization, it seems that keeping units ouf of the 10 hexes radius is the only way to go. I've been thinking that perhaps one could keep all corps out of the radius, because they are cheaper to operate, while parking tanks, mechanized and armies next to the border...

Any further thoughts / experiences anyone? Perhaps this whole issue is not much of a problem and I'm just worrying too much? Probably allowing Russia a couple of turns of increased mobilization won't change anything?

(in reply to LordOfPants)
Post #: 3
RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/7/2018 3:08:10 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		It's all about timing.
Timing when Russia is able to declare war themselves, versus when you want to start Barbarossa yourself. Some advocate for an early launch to maximize the summer 1941 weather. Others advocate a late summer launch to minimize Russian production and go for the throat in 1942.

What you don't want is Russia declaring war and preventing all those expensive units from getting killed, particularly killed while cut off.
If you start Barb too late you won't get far enough in before the weather turns, making it hard to kill said expensive units and setting your 1942 push way far back.

In light of the above, I believe most players move units into the zone a turn or so before they intend to launch. Planes and mobile units are easier to get into position.
You also may not need "everything" for turn 1 either.
Just be alert to how much Mobilization increase the USSR will get for the end of your turn and his turn to ensure that it doesn't go over the tipping point so that you are the one that declares war.

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RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/7/2018 3:43:29 PM   
crispy131313


Posts: 2055
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline 		Leaving your units in the Production Que until you are near ready for Barbarossa is another option, it will give you the option of placing along the Eastern border when you are ready, no need to operate or trigger USSR mobilization. It also does help with the surprise factor of suddenly lining up across the entire border when your opponent may think he has a bit of extra time.

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RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/7/2018 4:57:15 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		Be aware that doing that will deploy your units at 50/50 morale and readiness. Far from optimal values.

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RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/8/2018 3:01:56 PM   
LordOfPants

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/5/2018
Status: offline 		Also you can't upgrade units while they are in the production queue, so if you're going to 'queue hold' them you need to buy them with the upgrades you want, and won't be able to get any last minute tech jumps.

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Post #: 7
RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 8/8/2018 5:46:27 PM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		Excellent advice, gentlemen, thanks a lot!! +

Considering your ideas, I think that a late summer launch must be the best for Barbarossa, since the Axis side is having so much more MPP, the Axis are gaining a huge advantage in terms of research and construction. the longer Russia is out of the war... Doesn't the invincible Axis guru, Sugar, go always for a Barbarossa late summer launch (the best to make mincemeat of the Brits in the Mediterranean at leisure)?

In the future, I will try having 16-18 units next to the Soviet border, that surely includes all or most HQs, armies, mechanized and tanks. Just regular move to the border for the rest doesn't seem like an option, though, infantry never moves as far as ten hexes... I think I will try spending MPPs operating a few units. And Taxman66 is surely right, you don't need "everything" for turn 1, the killers are planes, tanks, armies and mechanized anyway.

Thanks again LordOfPants, Taxman66 and crispy131313 for the very helpful suggestions!!

(in reply to LordOfPants)
Post #: 8
RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 5/23/2019 3:10:24 PM   
rocketman71

 

Posts: 441
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		I have a question about the timing of Barbarossa. There is an in game prompt that states that it is wise to wait until the USSR is near 100% mobilized for war. Why is that? Wouldn't it be better when they are not?

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Post #: 9
RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 5/25/2019 8:40:40 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		The reason is that while their Mobilization is lower their income is less, so you can spend more time preparing your forces while they can't build up their own forces at the same rate.

There is a fine line here though, because once their Mobilization goes above 90% they will start mobilizing for war automatically, but if you attack while their Mobilization is much lower (say 60%) then you are missing out on turns where their income will be much lower than yours.

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RE: Build up for Barbarossa and the 18rule - 5/26/2019 10:42:57 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rocketman71

I have a question about the timing of Barbarossa. There is an in game prompt that states that it is wise to wait until the USSR is near 100% mobilized for war. Why is that? Wouldn't it be better when they are not?




Although I understand the concept I disagree with the prompt. IMO the most successful strategy for the Axis is to keep SU <50% until April - June '41 and then attack. The Axis attack should be able to destroy/trap ALL SU reinforcements.

If the SU is near 100% in April - June there are better decisions along the way to keep it lower. If it takes until late '41 for SU to near 100% you have given the SU way to much time to build troops, catch up in research and soon face winter/Siberian troops. Also the US will enter.





(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 11
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