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" TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers"

 
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" TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/6/2018 2:40:47 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline 		From the manual section 6.2.5 - “Unless set to follow another Task Force, Carrier TFs will react to enemy carrier forces and try and avoid enemy surface combat forces. Carrier TFs set to follow another TF are assumed to be providing air cover to that TF”

Can anyone provide some insight on the criteria that causes a carrier TF to react ? This has happened in both of my PBEM games, and caused me some serious losses in both instances. I need to learn how to either control it, or be more aware of what can be done to minimize the effect.

During a turn I ran yesterday, I had a TF that contained about 6 CVE’s react to an enemy carrier TF – and run headlong into a large Japanese SCTF that contained several BB’s. Aside from losing 5 of the CVE’s, the frustrating part was that the Japanese SCTF should have been avoided because that Japanese SCTF had already engaged in a surface combat with another Allied TF and its location was known.

To add to my frustration, a second carrier TF also reacted to the enemy carriers and it also ran into the same Japanese SCTF. My CV engaged in a duel with BB Fuso, while my BB Iowa stood by and fired one salvo…. Good thing that the Japanese SCTF had already been in two combats and was short on ammo. CV Chickamauga survived thankfully, and will make port.

In my other game, CV Saratoga reacted to enemy carriers, alerted those carriers to her presence ( she had been undetected previously) and got pummeled in the exchange of air strikes. Her reaction indirectly led to CV’s Enterprise and Yorktown also being detected and consequently sank. So one reaction ruined a carefully orchestrated ambush, and ultimately cost me 3 CV’s in March of 42….
Post #: 1
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/6/2018 6:13:51 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Well, for starters... make sure you are playing with the most up to date version of the game, which has a limit on this movement to 1 reaction per phase for each TF. They used to react in a chain and you could end up 4 or more hexes away from where you ordered them to be.

The best way to manage it is to anticipate where the enemy will end up. Of course, you can never be perfect in that.

The second-best way is to not have too many TFs and to keep them "stacked" in the same hex whenever possible.

The inclusion of an SCTF that the CVs are set to follow is something other forumites have done, but I scrapped it after it didn't appear to matter.

(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 2
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/6/2018 6:28:30 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Can anyone provide some insight on the criteria that causes a carrier TF to react ?


That's a question loaded with minefields, as a simple answer is all but impossible.

With this exception...

quote:

I had a TF that contained about 6 CVE’s react to an enemy carrier TF


If you don't want your CVE's getting into trouble (or at least have less of a chance) assign them to a CV Escort TF. These will try to avoid other surface combat forces.

Now, back to the original question. TF reaction is governed by many factors. Some of these are related to your TF commander. His naval and agression skill levels. A TF has a reaction setting of up to six hexes. IIRC CV TF's have an automatic reaction distance of one, according to the manual. TF's must pass 'die roll' checks to react, and so on.

Just too much going on under the hood for me to give you any real advice, other than that above. Hopefully others will chime in who are better in the know. For me I just kinda put things together as I can and hope for the best.





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(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 3
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/6/2018 8:35:00 PM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/29/2010
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		From my first experiences with Uncommon Valor (WITP:AE's forebear) to my latest with WITP:AE, I have found the ability of CV TFs to react to other TFs (CV or otherwise) to be problematic. My solution: turn off the ability of CV TFs to react. Set the reaction range to 0.

(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 4
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/6/2018 8:42:48 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

From my first experiences with Uncommon Valor (WITP:AE's forebear) to my latest with WITP:AE, I have found the ability of CV TFs to react to other TFs (CV or otherwise) to be problematic. My solution: turn off the ability of CV TFs to react. Set the reaction range to 0.


I'm reasonably sure I read somewhere, perhaps one of Alfred's posts, that the CV reaction is not tied to the "reaction" setting on the TF screen. That it's a different thing altogether.

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)
Post #: 5
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/7/2018 1:17:55 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Was Halsey in charge of any of those TFs? I only use him for surface TFs where I want reactions to happen. He's way too aggressive for CVs.

Cheers,
CB

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(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 6
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/7/2018 8:23:57 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		CV TF reactions are not linked to "React Range" setting on screen. Separate mechanics for that. CVE TFs do not "suffer" the same CV TF reaction - so it is common that your fleet carriers surge forward leaving CVE TFs with protection offered by hundreds of fighters behind in order to engage enemy CV TF.
IIRC there is just the enemy CVTF detection and commander aggression rating involved and hex per reaction phase (2 or 3 per turn). Also the reaction occurs only if range between CV TFs is 5/6 hex. I think closer it won't trigger the reaction (but you can end up closer depending on standard orders).

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(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 7
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/7/2018 11:57:21 AM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Was Halsey in charge of any of those TFs? I only use him for surface TFs where I want reactions to happen. He's way too aggressive for CVs.

Cheers,
CB



I dont recall who was in charge of either reacting TF, but I do know it was NOT Halsey. He's with another TF covering an Iwo Jima invasion....

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 8
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/8/2018 7:01:40 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

CV TF reactions are not linked to "React Range" setting on screen. Separate mechanics for that. CVE TFs do not "suffer" the same CV TF reaction - so it is common that your fleet carriers surge forward leaving CVE TFs with protection offered by hundreds of fighters behind in order to engage enemy CV TF.
IIRC there is just the enemy CVTF detection and commander aggression rating involved and hex per reaction phase (2 or 3 per turn). Also the reaction occurs only if range between CV TFs is 5/6 hex. I think closer it won't trigger the reaction (but you can end up closer depending on standard orders).


In the most recent version of the game, it is limited to 1 reaction per phase (so 2 reactions total), for each TF.

Reaction does not seem to occur at >6 hexes, but I haven't been reliably able to reproduce CV TF reaction in a test bed (which is weird). I think there is old WITP hex-distance code here. Old WITP 6 hexes = WITP:AE 8 hexes in terms of miles.

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 9
RE: " TF xxx reacting to enemy carriers" - 8/8/2018 3:44:32 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

CV TF reactions are not linked to "React Range" setting on screen. Separate mechanics for that. CVE TFs do not "suffer" the same CV TF reaction - so it is common that your fleet carriers surge forward leaving CVE TFs with protection offered by hundreds of fighters behind in order to engage enemy CV TF.
IIRC there is just the enemy CVTF detection and commander aggression rating involved and hex per reaction phase (2 or 3 per turn). Also the reaction occurs only if range between CV TFs is 5/6 hex. I think closer it won't trigger the reaction (but you can end up closer depending on standard orders).


In the most recent version of the game, it is limited to 1 reaction per phase (so 2 reactions total), for each TF.

Reaction does not seem to occur at >6 hexes, but I haven't been reliably able to reproduce CV TF reaction in a test bed (which is weird). I think there is old WITP hex-distance code here. Old WITP 6 hexes = WITP:AE 8 hexes in terms of miles.


Thanks for your input and observations Loka. One of the things I love about WITP:AE is the randomness and uncertainty that is inherent in the game. But at times it is also one of the most frustrating things about the game...

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 10
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