My first view of 5.01

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My first view of 5.01 - 6/12/2001 1:11:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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I played my first several 5.01 scenarios (German vs Poland, generated WWII campaign) this weekend. Here are my comments. The Polish buy units routine is better. No more hundred or so tanks but what are these "gun support squads" with only rifles and handgrenades? There are dozens of them. It seems that this is a bug in the routine or are they something the Poles really deployed with all infantry companies? The AIP has a better mine setup routine for defenses. It used to use one linear belt. Find one mine hex with artillery and you knew where all the mines were within a hex or two. I was surprised (to the tune of four tanks out) by mines several hexes in front of the main belt. I easily beat the AIP on a medium battle but found it difficult to deal with hundreds (~300 or so) of units on the hard (2x my buy points). This is a great idea but it needs more granularity, i.e. some more increments. And lastly, I love the overrun sound file!!!

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- 6/12/2001 4:52:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
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From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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Glad you are enjoying it, G-2! :D ;) Wild Bill

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Post #: 2

- 6/12/2001 6:20:00 AM

Figmo

Posts: 556
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From: Pennsylvania, USA
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That Overrun stuff IS great!! I go crazy with it - driving around looking for things to overrun. It makes cleanup at the end of Campaign battle even MORE fun!! Figmo

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Post #: 3

- 6/12/2001 7:30:00 AM

rich12545

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
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Wellll (biggest sigh) eventually I'll get my disk and will find out.

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Post #: 4

- 6/12/2001 10:13:00 AM

David boutwell

Posts: 353
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Haymarket, Virginia, USA
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You and me, both, Rich :( I haven't been able to play SPWAW in over a month, now. David Boutwell

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- 6/12/2001 11:47:00 AM

Stuart Millis

Posts: 217
Joined: 2/18/2001
From: British Columbia, Canada
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Gun support squads. Polish gun teams were large. Mostly the extra men would be horse handlers and ammo bearers etc, but they all carried rifles. And when the guns were firing those extra rifles could be used for defending the guns against infantry attack. Unfortunately the AI does not know how to use them. So shoot them down with your PzI's [ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Stuart Millis ]

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- 6/12/2001 12:24:00 PM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
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David and Rich, I understand your frustration, I really do. This kind of post only heightens it. My apologies. Kinda like rubbing salt in the wound but we did not mean it that way. I've been talking with David via long distance on a daily basis and he assures me that all possible is being done to get these CDs to you. As you may know, this path has been fraught with difficulties that have slowed down the process way too much. And of course I am anxious to see that Mega Campaign get out of the gate and onto the track. Frustrating for me and the design team. Hang in there. We are learning and will do better as we go. We do very much appreciate the ready support both of you and thousands more have shown to date. Wild Bill

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Post #: 7

- 6/13/2001 8:51:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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I played a German advance against British delay: The AIP has always been better at stationary scenarios than in the advance but it seems that it has been tweaked even better (Paul will probably say that the code wasn't changed and its just my imagination). The AIP still put a string of infantry out in the open following the setup front but behind that, around the objectives, it placed units in depth and in mutually supporting positions. I tried to punch through then move laterally in its real area to take the AIP from the flank/rear. I found units back there with overlapping fields of fire that kept ambushing me. While I was able to fight through and overwhelm them with multiple attacks, the ambushes left a string of burning wrecks (my wrecked units) in my wake. What happened to those pop up boxes with the % to hit and penetration results? I don't see them anymore. On a similar note, when the AIP shoots at me, it is often difficult to determine what generic type of weapon is firing. I am not asking to be told that its a model x MG but its difficult to know if its rifle or MG auto fire, ATR or main gun fire, etc. IRL I'd at least know that much.

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Post #: 8

- 6/14/2001 9:53:00 AM

kao16

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quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt: What happened to those pop up boxes with the % to hit and penetration results? I don't see them anymore.

Have a look at your preferences. "Live Delay" is probably set to zero.

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Post #: 9

- 6/14/2001 10:05:00 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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I'm veeeerrrrryyyy satisfied with this version of "sp"..I was really tired of the M10's and M18's being sitting ducks..Now they're guns are actually worth something close to real life!...(First shot,first kill,instead of "first miss and bail out"!!!)Also like the fact infantry can rout but is still able to hold it's own if necessary,(and supported)..Real combined arms has a chance with any country now..(Italians and Poles used to be a cakewalk,not accurate at all,but that's been fixed....Great!!! :)

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Post #: 10

- 6/14/2001 11:34:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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I've played the Germans against the Poles, Brits and French. Brits: very hard troops, they often do not fall back, even with broken force morale individual infantry squads fight on without any degregation, the platoon HQs have the ATRs (that are accurate out to 15 hexes or so) so deal with those first but watch the rifle grenades that all squads have. French: almost arcade like they are so easy to kill, squads often fall back after only one kill, they can get 15% or so close assault so be carefull driving up next to them. Poles: in the middle, lots of ATRs but not so accurate as the Brits, in between as far as ability to shoot them up and fall back, etc. Note that I did not see any Char Bs or Matildas! Oh joy, oh rapture a realistice AIP buy routine.

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Post #: 11

- 6/14/2001 11:59:00 PM

Mike Wood

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From: Oakland, California
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Hello... For version 5.01, we recoded the purchase, deployment and mine laying routines for the artificial intelligence. Hope You like them... Michael Wood Lead Programmer, Matrix Games

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Post #: 12

- 6/15/2001 12:03:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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They are much better. Perhaps I will become used to them in time but they are less brain dead and tactically much better. I really did not expect this much development effort for SPWAW and I am delighted with it.

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Post #: 13

- 6/15/2001 12:31:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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During the AIP side, I often see an entry at the bottom of the screen, "crew panics" etc. There is no indication of which side had the panic. Knowing if it was my or the other's side would be useful and realistic.

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Post #: 14

- 6/15/2001 4:09:00 AM

Paul Vebber

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Tank panic always occurs during the OTHER guys turn, so crew panic only applies to the "non-phasing player" to use old SPI parlance...

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Post #: 15

- 6/15/2001 4:09:00 AM

Grumble

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From: Omaha, NE, USA
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Gotta agree, new AI routines are a vast improvement. Poles have been toughened up, as they should have been, and the concept of "tank terror" is well abstracted. Melee and overrun are also good additions. Good Job, all. (I believe when you see "xxx panics" during the AI turn, that refers to an AI unit that attempted to move,attack and failed a MC.)

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Post #: 16

- 6/15/2001 9:33:00 PM

A.H

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Joined: 6/3/2001
From: Finland
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Guess, who's 5.01 didn't work. Guess who was told to download the vid998.smk file. Guess whos game didn't work even after the extracting to a right folder. Guess who spent many, many hours downloading the update and the file with his 56k modem. Guess who has done everything possible to get the game to work. Guess who is still not playing. This ain't funny people.

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Post #: 17

- 6/15/2001 10:29:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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quote:

Originally posted by kao16: Have a look at your preferences. "Live Delay" is probably set to zero.

So right / thanks!

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Post #: 18

- 6/15/2001 10:47:00 PM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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Overrun comments: I overran a mortar with a tank and the tank became immobilized. It is not clear if this was a regular movement kind of immobilization or if the tube got stuck in my running gear, that is if the over run itself caused this. Armored cars can't over run. Before you start up, better check this out otherwise you might stick one out there in a hex with enemy infantry and be surprised. Mobility: I ran a tank into a building and it was immobilized, no surprise there. However, several turns later, it was fixed. This is the first time that I have seen a vehicle in a building get fixed.

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Post #: 19

- 6/16/2001 1:35:00 AM

Brummagem

Posts: 37
Joined: 4/26/2001
From: Sunny, To Darn Sunny California, USA
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Love the new AI. The computer actually mixes it up a bit now. Actually ran into a mine field in one game that was put were I would have put it to slow up a flanking move....too cool. I actually have to pull out the stops and use real tactics when I'm on the assault. Thanks for a great game...loking forward to ordering the Mega when you have the delivery bugs worked out. :D

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Post #: 20

- 6/16/2001 2:28:00 AM

Charles2222

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A Semi-AAR report: Visibility is 9. Fighting a hard battle with AI advantage on. Also have rarity off. This is the first time I've tried rarity off on 5.01. Fighting as Gerry in Poland, and being assaulted. This is quite the dramatic battle. I've lost 6 tanks to artillery while entrenched. Not a single artillery round has damaged the tanks, they're all destroyed outright. Have lost maybe between 2-6 tanks due either to clumsiness, bravado, or typical assaults from the enemy. The enemy has tried a new tactic. When the squad leader cries retreat, they come right towards our lines, quite frequently. This is most unfortunate, because the already abysmal visibility is further reduced by squads retreating forwards and laying smoke closer and closer to my lines. I'm on turn 16 now, possibly the longest assault I've ever withstood (the Poles haven't captured a single objective and still they are fighting!), for one reason because so much of it is infantry (slower). I can report that my men have probably smashed anywhere between 30-50 squads, and still, on turn 16, I've witnessed maybe a dozen Polish units who have received their first casualty. There's no end to their assault. When there seemed to be a small lull, and the artillery was giving my units greater risk then the hordes in front of them, the engineers were instructed to start clearing the mines they had laid earlier. They have refused these orders and it turns out quite rightly, as every Polish unit destroyed seems to bring two in it's wake. The situation is so desperate and at such close quarters, that the men are firing almost every single round they can during opfire. Even a serious counterattack in a somewhat quite northern area has turned up fresh Polish infantry that are as much as 1500 meters behind their front (how deep is this Polish army?) The only light of hope that has emerged to lift the mens spirits above the threat of Polish artillery catching back up, is that we have now spotted our first 46mm GL squads, which may mean they have very little left.

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Post #: 21

- 6/16/2001 3:16:00 AM

dbt1949_slith

Posts: 194
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From: hogeye,ar
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I just updated to 5.01 and am enjoying it immensly.I started with the Rif Rebellion of 1925.Now I haven't studied this battle but I was wondering---both the Rif and the Spanish seemed to have an awful lot of smoke grenades.Is this accurate or done for gameplay?I tried mowing down the Rifs with my armored car/trucks and got them wiped out.I wouldn't have thought the Rifs would do so well against armor.Learned a valuable lesson there.I noticed they were using "petrol bombs".Did they really use those in 1925 or was this done for gameplay? Also what's the use of the pack mules and wagons for the Spanish?I was a little confused there too. Like I said' I know nothing of this battle just curious of some things.I really like the obscure battles and am looking forward to many hours of gameplay.Thanks!

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Post #: 22

- 6/16/2001 4:54:00 AM

Charles2222

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I surrendered the battle, experimentally, just to see what the Polish forces were like, as turn 17 found about another dozen units which had just then lost it's first man. I was seriously thinking there was something enormously wrong with the game; perhaps the destroyed units were respawning. Well, it didn't appear they respawned, but on rough estimate they had like 550 units!!! And to think I didn't even have to face the 20 or so guns he had along the back line. Something has to be done about that, they shouldn't be back there, and this was a game with rarity off, so there was no reason to buy them either. I also counted 11 of either the 100mm or 105mm artillery btys.

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Post #: 23

- 6/16/2001 5:40:00 AM

gators

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I'm not sure they're classic Molotovs, but, how much ordnance creativity would it take to field expedient a thrown explosive device. It is a very old concept.

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Post #: 24

- 6/16/2001 10:07:00 PM

Charles2222

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A follow up here. I was fairly disgusted by the previous campaign because of all the armor artillery kills and the Polish guns being in the back. This time I restarted another campaign with basically the same core force. This battle was under the same conditions as the prior one, only the Polish were advancing instead of assaulting, while I turned rarity on. Well, to put it bluntly they were wimps. They were so wimpy in contrast that I decided to surrender to find out his forces. He had inflicted two armor losses, outright, though his artillery wasn't so bold, with a third only damaged for a change (I'm starting to wonder if this recent HEAT download has changed the artillery-to-armor effect). This time he had close to 40 ATGs out there about the middle of his defense, this time, instead of the back line. If I had been attacking, as inevitably I would, given such a weak attack, his defense would've been very good, but the only problem was that he was attacking me. I could've dodged the artillery all day long and still held the objectives easily. I'm frustrated. It seems the only viable option in rarity off, for a decent fight, and then you have mega-artillery causing at least half of your tanks being destroyed. It's easy for me to come up with the conclusion that the artillery is so suddenly being deadly, because I've been playing as Gerry against the Poles so long that my soldiers are on a first name basis with them (constantly restarting campaigns, largely due to new versions of the game coming out, of course).

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