Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI?

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Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/15/2018 8:29:20 PM

Timotheus

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I just played scenario 100 - the historical OOB for both and the Allied AI.

It did teach me to pay attention to OOB to make complete divisions, which bases to skip (ahem, perhaps I DID go a bit crazy on the dot bases

), and how to do large scale offensives, on land in China and thru naval invasions.

But the computer Allies is very, very passive. It is doing "sir robin" withdrawal big time, which is very skillfully done, but there is ZERO counter action. None.

It got to the point that I do not have to escort my small-medium invasions fleets as I can sail everywhere I wish with no fear whatsoever.

The only thing the AI did was send 2 BB (!!!) to Soerabaja with some CA and escorts, which my fleet there (KB) promptly sank...

I guess this is not just for Andy, but also others who played versus the Japanese AI - which scenario was the most fun for you?

I prefer historical OOB instead of "star wars Dec 17 Day of Infamy Los Angeles invaded by 50 divisions" type stuff... but.....

... But might just try scenario 17 'Dawn of the Dorniers', as it seems the only one where Japanese AI was specifically re-worked? This looks like fun as AI is given some more stuff but nothing TOO crazy (from what I can tell).

What are my options for human Japan versus computer Allies?

Please post links to the scenario you recommend (if you can), that would be tremendous help.

Thanks in advance.

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Post #: 1

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/15/2018 9:57:49 PM

GetAssista

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What are you talking about, Sir Robin is the best Allied strategy when you are not sure about your skills vs your opponent. And AI certainly should be like that

If you want counteraggression play against Ironman Allied AI where it has ample assets to throw them around

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 2

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/15/2018 11:06:08 PM

Timotheus

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"If you want counteraggression play against Ironman Allied AI"

Which scenario is that?

Everything I see is for Human Allied and Japanese AI?

I only see scenario 17 'Dawn of the Dorniers', as ironman Allied AI versus human Japan?

edit: I think Andy mostly worked on Japanese AI in all his scenarios, so scenario 17 'Dorniers' is the only one I see where there is changed / improved Allied AI?

edit2: found this thread which explains which scenarios are versus Allied AI.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4257475

Still not sure which one would be "fun" for me - bit more than historical, not star wars "invade USA Dec 7 1941".

< Message edited by Timotheus -- 8/16/2018 12:44:22 AM >

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

War in the Pacific Poradnik po Polsku
http://tinyurl.com/nxd4cesh

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 3

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 4:40:26 PM

Yaab

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Read the AI thread carefully. There is no good AI sadly. WITP's AI is a just bunch of scripts, and a human will break the AI easily. I use the latest AI, historical scenario variants, and put some house-rules on myself to inject more realism into the game, and the game is still a so-so one.

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 4

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 6:14:57 PM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
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Recognizing that the AI works best when it has extra assets, you'll usually get a more interesting game with the Ironman series. Just my opinion, but Tier 2 and Tier 3 are where the game veers substantially beyond history, so to keep it "reasonable", stick to Tier 1. If you do, Scen 17 (Dorniers) is best against the Allied AI while Scen 102 is frankly superb vs. the Japanese AI.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 5

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 8:05:55 PM

HansBolter

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PM Paxmondo.

He has the most experience of any regular posters playing AndyMac's Iroman Allied AI scenarios and has much to comment on the Dorniers.

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Hans

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Post #: 6

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 9:23:03 PM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
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I simply stopped playing against the AI switching to "hotseat", meaning I'm directing the Allies because it became, sorry to say, a pain playing against the AI; have to say that's much more difficult and challenging than against the AI, but requires loooong time;

in any case the real fun and challenge is against a human;

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 7

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 9:28:16 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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From: Toronto and Lima
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Is it possible to add Andy's scripts to Babes-Lite A or B?

I know extended map is not supported, but I have hardly seen any major difference, and I like the stacking limits

EDIT: actually to answer one of my own questions; Dababes includes a download for stacking limits using the standard map; which I think will be less of a handicap for the AI

Still trying to figure out if/ how can I use Babes-Lite A with Andy's scen#1 scripts

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 8/16/2018 10:22:30 PM >

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 8

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 10:56:49 PM

HansBolter

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I'm in March of '45 in AndyMac's Ironmam Nasty Ported to Babes, scenario 40.

It's the very first of at least 10 to 15 games I have played against the AI that made it this far.

I never even had a game make it to '44 without it becoming so lopsided that I quit.

The AI is not putting up much of a counter to my moves, but still has a massive defense, a huge air Force and a viable navy.

I highly recommend any of the Ironman scenarios.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 9

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 10:57:50 PM

Kull

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From: El Paso, TX
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From the link posted earlier:

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

Hello Kull. Fyi.

The differences between the standard and extended maps are de minimis so far as the AI is concerned. What works for standard will work for extended. So �

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work unconditionally, playing either side, with any and all Babes Lite scenarios, no matter the map.

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work unconditionally, playing against the Japanese computer, with any and all DBB scenarios, no matter the map.

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work �kinda ok enough�, playing against the Allied computer, with any and all DBB scenarios, no matter the map.

For Andy�s Ironman AI files, it depends on how much he changed unit slot positions in the corresponding scenario data files. If he didn�t change slot positions much, but just added �more stuff�, those AI files will work just fine with all Babes as described above. If he did change slot positions a lot, as well as adding more stuff, it will show as �kinda ok enough�.

Matt

And:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

12) Andy also created a scenario specifically designed for DaBigBabes (Version A). This scenario can ONLY be played as Allies (human) against Japanese AI:
- Scenario 40 (11/6/2013) DaBabes Quick and Dirty Ironman Nasty Port

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 10

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 11:23:11 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm in March of '45 in AndyMac's Ironmam Nasty Ported to Babes, scenario 40.

It's the very first of at least 10 to 15 games I have played against the AI that made it this far.

I never even had a game make it to '44 without it becoming so lopsided that I quit.

The AI is not putting up much of a counter to my moves, but still has a massive defense, a huge air Force and a viable navy.

I highly recommend any of the Ironman scenarios.

Can I ask how you ported?

EDIT: ignore, I just saw Kull's note, thing is I want to play Japan against Allied AI. so won't work

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 8/16/2018 11:24:25 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 11

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/16/2018 11:33:43 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

From the link posted earlier:

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

Hello Kull. Fyi.

The differences between the standard and extended maps are de minimis so far as the AI is concerned. What works for standard will work for extended. So �

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work unconditionally, playing either side, with any and all Babes Lite scenarios, no matter the map.

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work unconditionally, playing against the Japanese computer, with any and all DBB scenarios, no matter the map.

Any and all AI files for regular GC scenarios work �kinda ok enough�, playing against the Allied computer, with any and all DBB scenarios, no matter the map.

For Andy�s Ironman AI files, it depends on how much he changed unit slot positions in the corresponding scenario data files. If he didn�t change slot positions much, but just added �more stuff�, those AI files will work just fine with all Babes as described above. If he did change slot positions a lot, as well as adding more stuff, it will show as �kinda ok enough�.

Matt

And:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

12) Andy also created a scenario specifically designed for DaBigBabes (Version A). This scenario can ONLY be played as Allies (human) against Japanese AI:
- Scenario 40 (11/6/2013) DaBabes Quick and Dirty Ironman Nasty Port

Thanks for the note and the patience

I read that, but I was not sure about the scripts; as far as I know, there is AI and there are scripts
... so the game will have the AI working regardless of what scenario or map I use, that I have clear. As per US87891 depending on lite or big, depending on Allies or Japan you will get better or worst results.
Example: AI might not be scripted to defend base "X" which is from extended map, but AI might still move a unit there if it thinks it is capable to capture or defend it

question is about the scripts; I downloaded all Andy's scripts, I would like to use the latest update scen#1 from Andy for Dababes light, is this possible?

also, is there a better AI against Japan? but I am not looking for Dornier float planes carrying Exocet missiles

but something a bit more historical

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 8/16/2018 11:40:07 PM >

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 12

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/17/2018 12:01:45 AM

Jorge_Stanbury

Posts: 4320
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From: Toronto and Lima
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From Symon:

"AN AI SCRIPT DOES NOT USE 'UNITS', IT USES 'SLOT NUMBERS'(...) So scripts use slots that might not be populated with the desired unit. Depending on the mod, a script might grab a Seabee Bn instead of an Armored Division because the Bn is the Div slot: and so it goes. It all has to do with slot numbers. Certain mods keep certain LCUs in their specific slots. Others don't. And it's Japanese slots and Allied slots."

and

"BabesLite has more ships and classes than the corresponding stock scenarios. It also has substantially modified device files that provide a different, and perhaps more realistic, 'feel' to naval combat, naval bombardment, AAA combat, ASW combat, etc.. The device files contain the same Devices in the same slot locations, but substantial modifications were made to the Range, Accuracy, Penetration, Effect, Ceiling, Anti-Armor, Anti-Soft, and Load Cost parameter fields. Ship Classes, and corresponding Ships, have had their ASW weapon suites modified"

As long as Lite is used, Andy's scripts can be used; but can I just copy them from scen#1 and save it in babes lite?

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 13

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/17/2018 1:11:20 AM

Kull

Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

also, is there a better AI against Japan? but I am not looking for Dornier float planes carrying Exocet missiles but something a bit more historical

You could create your own "scenario" and change the Dornier bomb load-out from torps to 250 or 500 bombs (or any bomb type that has a code). That way you'd get the full benefit of the AI, w/o facing Exocets!

You might think a new scenario is hard, but a 1-unit change to an existing scenario is cake.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 14

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 8/17/2018 3:03:52 AM

Timotheus

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Joined: 12/13/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

Recognizing that the AI works best when it has extra assets, you'll usually get a more interesting game with the Ironman series. Just my opinion, but Tier 2 and Tier 3 are where the game veers substantially beyond history, so to keep it "reasonable", stick to Tier 1. If you do, Scen 17 (Dorniers) is best against the Allied AI while Scen 102 is frankly superb vs. the Japanese AI.

That's where I was leaning too, thanks for the answers.

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

War in the Pacific Poradnik po Polsku
http://tinyurl.com/nxd4cesh

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 15

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/5/2019 8:55:02 PM

Kulturhund

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In my game (Andy's scenario 17) it's Aug 1942 and things were getting exciting. The Allies beat me to building up bases in Guadalcanal and several of their CV TFs were approaching from the northeast. This was mid-July... at Rabaul I had a bunch of Zeros and Bettys (with KB in reserve) waiting to strike. I didn't realize how strong the enemy CAP was until the first Betty attack went in with a large Zero escort and got completely chewed up - over 150 fighters on CAP!! (this is Jul 1942 not Jul 1944 :D)

Anyway I was rethinking my options when the CVs heading west then NW at flank speed, next thing I know they're in the DEI and I had to save the game and check. They�re heading to the UK!! (see pic) but why though, and has anyone else experienced this? Just when I was getting ready for a big smackdown too lol.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kulturhund -- 12/5/2019 9:08:34 PM >

(in reply to Timotheus)

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RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/5/2019 10:31:05 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I'm in March of '45 in AndyMac's Ironmam Nasty Ported to Babes, scenario 40.

It's the very first of at least 10 to 15 games I have played against the AI that made it this far.

I never even had a game make it to '44 without it becoming so lopsided that I quit.

The AI is not putting up much of a counter to my moves, but still has a massive defense, a huge air Force and a viable navy.

I highly recommend any of the Ironman scenarios.

Can I ask how you ported?

EDIT: ignore, I just saw Kull's note, thing is I want to play Japan against Allied AI. so won't work

I didn't. Andy Mac did.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away I was one of Andy Mac's stalwart playtesters of his Ironman mods (the Japan AI ones) and around that time I took my first foray into the Babe's based mods and fell in love with the LCU countermix.

I told Andy that I would have a very hard time going back to playing stock based games and implored him to create a Babes based Ironman scenario. Eventually, he got around to satisfying my request. Scenario 40 was the result.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)

Post #: 17

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/6/2019 1:33:30 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kulturhund

In my game (Andy's scenario 17) it's Aug 1942 and things were getting exciting. The Allies beat me to building up bases in Guadalcanal and several of their CV TFs were approaching from the northeast. This was mid-July... at Rabaul I had a bunch of Zeros and Bettys (with KB in reserve) waiting to strike. I didn't realize how strong the enemy CAP was until the first Betty attack went in with a large Zero escort and got completely chewed up - over 150 fighters on CAP!! (this is Jul 1942 not Jul 1944 :D)

Anyway I was rethinking my options when the CVs heading west then NW at flank speed, next thing I know they're in the DEI and I had to save the game and check. They�re heading to the UK!! (see pic) but why though, and has anyone else experienced this? Just when I was getting ready for a big smackdown too lol.

Never mind the UK - that TF will only go a few hexes more before being out of fuel. But if the AI is controlling it, I think it can cheat and refuel the TF from invisible AOs.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Kulturhund)

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RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/6/2019 5:46:35 AM

Kulturhund

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haha I didn't notice they're almost outta fuel! But I was wondering more about WHY move to the UK, makes no sense at all? I thought the UK withdrawal was only for certain UK ships.

Is this part of the AI script then? They haven't even been damaged much... and it would have been far easier to go to Australia for repairs and stuff.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 19

RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/6/2019 2:02:45 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kulturhund

haha I didn't notice they're almost outta fuel! But I was wondering more about WHY move to the UK, makes no sense at all? I thought the UK withdrawal was only for certain UK ships.

Is this part of the AI script then? They haven't even been damaged much... and it would have been far easier to go to Australia for repairs and stuff.

It could be that Indomitable is due to withdraw, but I think the AI will split it out of the TF and change the routing for the rest. Surely players would be complaining by now if entire TFs disappeared from the board, even if they were on the AI side.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: Which Andy scenario has best ALLIED AI? - 12/7/2019 10:46:07 AM

PaxMondo

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All of the Ironman series need to be played at HARD level, with VERY HARD run at least 5 days every 30. I run VH 3 days every 10.

The reason for the VH is to disperse supply for the AI. There were some late game design decisions that were heavily discussed, and a decision was taken which greatly disrupted AI ability. running turns on VH is the only way to resolve it without access to the code.

Kull, refers the levels as Tiers which is fine. Andy called them various forms of Nasty, which I continue to prefer.

The more Nasty the version, the more challenge you will have. He has both his original AI versions for the Jap AI and a new version just released. BOTH are good, the new one is still being developed but is quite good as is. I'm playing the Allies for the first time in many years and being challenged by it.

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Pax

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 21