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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 2:18:50 AM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

In China, Chungking is burning. There is no reason not to destroy the industry here, since there are so many engineers in Chungking, that when it falls the industry is wiped out - might as well knock it down earlier than that.



Not my experience.

There aren't that many Chinese engineers, and the number of engineers honestly seems less important than the simple "is it damage or not" roll of the dice.

When I captured Chungking last, it was in the same shape as it was before the attack. There were over 100K Chinese there, so I'm sure the number of engineers was also quite high...

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 61
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 2:41:12 AM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

In China, Chungking is burning. There is no reason not to destroy the industry here, since there are so many engineers in Chungking, that when it falls the industry is wiped out - might as well knock it down earlier than that.



Not my experience.

There aren't that many Chinese engineers, and the number of engineers honestly seems less important than the simple "is it damage or not" roll of the dice.

When I captured Chungking last, it was in the same shape as it was before the attack. There were over 100K Chinese there, so I'm sure the number of engineers was also quite high...


LOL, . Every game I have played all the central China industry is 100% destroyed from ground attacks at capture.

Your not wrong, flip a coin I guess.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 62
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 3:43:26 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		May 1942

Experimenting with Iboats used as intel gathering...and testing his ASW. Late war these boats would be in trouble with air and DE hunting them down and killing them.

I have no idea what a 70 skill recon trained Glen pilot can report back, but I want to use them in flights of 3 or 4. Day or night depending upon the anticipated threat level.






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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/20/2018 3:45:50 AM >

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Post #: 63
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 3:47:29 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		And an Iboat, part of a team of three working the San Francisco to Pearl route....I believe that is a Kittyhawk class ship...but with only one torpedo in her, she will be fine.




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Post #: 64
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 3:59:27 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

In China, Chungking is burning. There is no reason not to destroy the industry here, since there are so many engineers in Chungking, that when it falls the industry is wiped out - might as well knock it down earlier than that.



Not my experience.

There aren't that many Chinese engineers, and the number of engineers honestly seems less important than the simple "is it damage or not" roll of the dice.

When I captured Chungking last, it was in the same shape as it was before the attack. There were over 100K Chinese there, so I'm sure the number of engineers was also quite high...


LOL, . Every game I have played all the central China industry is 100% destroyed from ground attacks at capture.

Your not wrong, flip a coin I guess.


I've had both outcomes so random outcome is certainly strong. How much influenced by engrs I don't think we know … all we know is that they are one variable.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 65
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 4:03:12 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

May 1942

Experimenting with Iboats used as intel gathering...and testing his ASW. Late war these boats would be in trouble with air and DE hunting them down and killing them.

I have no idea what a 70 skill recon trained Glen pilot can report back, but I want to use them in flights of 3 or 4. Day or night depending upon the anticipated threat level.


Interesting that there was no DL on Suva. Anyway, for me recon trained Glens get me good intel. I can generally get DL of 2 - 4 on a target with a single glen after a day or two if it can evade CAP. DL 1-2 if I have to recon at night only due to CAP.


_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 66
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 10:31:16 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
In China, Chungking is burning. There is no reason not to destroy the industry here, since there are so many engineers in Chungking, that when it falls the industry is wiped out - might as well knock it down earlier than that.

Not my experience.

There aren't that many Chinese engineers, and the number of engineers honestly seems less important than the simple "is it damage or not" roll of the dice.

When I captured Chungking last, it was in the same shape as it was before the attack. There were over 100K Chinese there, so I'm sure the number of engineers was also quite high...

LOL, . Every game I have played all the central China industry is 100% destroyed from ground attacks at capture.

Your not wrong, flip a coin I guess.

I've had both outcomes so random outcome is certainly strong. How much influenced by engrs I don't think we know … all we know is that they are one variable.

Big battles result in random destruction extremes, I've tested it some time ago, even posted in tech support. Base will be either 100% destroyed or completely intact, no inbetweens. And CK is one of the grandest battles out there

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 67
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 6:34:15 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
In China, Chungking is burning. There is no reason not to destroy the industry here, since there are so many engineers in Chungking, that when it falls the industry is wiped out - might as well knock it down earlier than that.

Not my experience.

There aren't that many Chinese engineers, and the number of engineers honestly seems less important than the simple "is it damage or not" roll of the dice.

When I captured Chungking last, it was in the same shape as it was before the attack. There were over 100K Chinese there, so I'm sure the number of engineers was also quite high...

LOL, . Every game I have played all the central China industry is 100% destroyed from ground attacks at capture.

Your not wrong, flip a coin I guess.

I've had both outcomes so random outcome is certainly strong. How much influenced by engrs I don't think we know … all we know is that they are one variable.

Big battles result in random destruction extremes, I've tested it some time ago, even posted in tech support. Base will be either 100% destroyed or completely intact, no inbetweens. And CK is one of the grandest battles out there


I'm not convinced that engineers matter one whit. The manual says they do, but I've never seen any evidence of it while seeing a lot more evidence that it is merely an RNG-driven thing which results in total destruction or pristine condition far more often than anything in between.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 68
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/20/2018 11:47:10 PM   
JoV

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/27/2016
Status: offline 		I took Magwe in my most recent game in a straightforward deliberate attack the day after arriving against a battered base force which contained minimal engineers. Over 60% of the facilities were destroyed Lots of evidence about on the forum regarding varying extremes, so for me ends up being one of those things you cross your fingers about and just hope for the best I guess.

Lots of good tips for JFB's in here. Particularly on sub use for recon. I've been spreading my float equipped subs far and wide trying to find the Allies LOC (without much success). Focused recon on obvious targets seems a far better use of their time

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 69
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 1:55:29 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I got 100% destroyed on Magwe's oil in the only time I had to capture it via attack. That was a pretty big blow.

(in reply to JoV)
Post #: 70
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 9:36:04 AM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Only issue with Glens for recon is that they are very vulnerable to CAP

Nothing more annoying than sailing across the ocean to have it shot down on its first flight!

_____________________________


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Post #: 71
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 11:48:04 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		The little Momi class destroyer blundered into a mine, limped back to a size 1 port where she met 3 AD.

Useless AD...so sorry I converted some.




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Post #: 72
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 11:50:04 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Only issue with Glens for recon is that they are very vulnerable to CAP

Nothing more annoying than sailing across the ocean to have it shot down on its first flight!


The whole point here is to gain information on potential kitchen sink invasions. If the flight generates that information, or rules out that base as a staging point, well then...pretty much worth it.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 73
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 12:22:45 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		This is true, but you get a better idea from the base build up

I switched to using them as search aircraft outside the effective ASW/CAP range of his built up bases.



_____________________________


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Post #: 74
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 12:55:22 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is true, but you get a better idea from the base build up

I switched to using them as search aircraft outside the effective ASW/CAP range of his built up bases.



By early 1943 all staging bases are 100 percent built up.

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 75
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 12:56:41 PM   
PaxMondo


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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The little Momi class destroyer blundered into a mine, limped back to a size 1 port where she met 3 AD.

Useless AD...so sorry I converted some.


Yeah, I really like all the support ships (AD, AS, AV, AG, AGP, …) they all have their use. side repair, the ability to load torps is huge.


_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 76
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 12:59:03 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Only issue with Glens for recon is that they are very vulnerable to CAP

Nothing more annoying than sailing across the ocean to have it shot down on its first flight!


The whole point here is to gain information on potential kitchen sink invasions. If the flight generates that information, or rules out that base as a staging point, well then...pretty much worth it.


I take the same view … I hate losing that Glen on the first flight, but it does happen. But if it shows the base empty (or full), the intel is worth it. Particularly after 9/43 … face it, after that all of the IJ SS are just VP's to be harvested. Intel is about the only mission that they will not be auto harvested.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 77
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 1:00:31 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is true, but you get a better idea from the base build up

I switched to using them as search aircraft outside the effective ASW/CAP range of his built up bases.



By early 1943 all staging bases are 100 percent built up.

If not earlier. ... they don't really need that many do they?


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 78
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 1:17:52 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is true, but you get a better idea from the base build up

I switched to using them as search aircraft outside the effective ASW/CAP range of his built up bases.



By early 1943 all staging bases are 100 percent built up.

If not earlier. ... they don't really need that many do they?



There just aren't that many! Unfortunately, buildups can't pinpoint targets, but at least give you a front to work on.



(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 79
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 2:46:56 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Mid May 42

I have got 2 BB, 4 CA one CVL and a bunch of destroyers 8 hexes due west of Tabby undetected.

Not happy with my search at all, supplies still heading to Nauru and unloading at Makin.

My basic thought is to establish really good naval search using floats, patrols and Iboats. Grab a dot base or three, and pound Tabby with round the clock naval bombardments that are being rearmed from the adjacent dot bases with AKE.

Hold the heavy ships back and CVs.

Tabby is a level 1 runway now...

The Navy is contemplating pulling back their SAG and CVE force until better search is present. No point in blundering into an ambush...




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Post #: 80
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/21/2018 6:14:30 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		The eastern supply/staging base for Tabby will get a pretty good rush this next day.

It has been rumored the Heavy volume of traffic generally references troops loading or unloading...it is I think 2 days since Japan recognized the increase in traffic here...I wonder if anything is left.

Size 3 port which means submarine nets.




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RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/22/2018 4:20:43 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

This is true, but you get a better idea from the base build up

I switched to using them as search aircraft outside the effective ASW/CAP range of his built up bases.



By early 1943 all staging bases are 100 percent built up.

If not earlier. ... they don't really need that many do they?



There just aren't that many! Unfortunately, buildups can't pinpoint targets, but at least give you a front to work on.




Agreed.

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Pax

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Post #: 82
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/22/2018 4:29:16 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Not happy with my search at all, supplies still heading to Nauru and unloading at Makin.

My basic thought is to establish really good naval search using floats, patrols and Iboats. Grab a dot base or three, and pound Tabby with round the clock naval bombardments that are being rearmed from the adjacent dot bases with AKE.

I spend a lot of effort on NavSearch and Recon, so you won't have me critiquing your thoughts here. My basic thought is that the formulaic IJ Intel is so bad that I need to cover that with accurate and persistent active Intel gathering.

I like dot bases with AS/AV/AD/AGP where I can setup both air, sea, and sub search nets. I also like to use Rufe's as CAT traps in similar setups … at least against Andy AI I get net a lot of CAT's that way …

Jake is such a valuable asset with its range. PB's make great pickets and you can have all you need. Some MTB's to provide a screen against allied TF intrusion, and well, you have a pretty happy family.

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Post #: 83
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/22/2018 1:30:40 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Mid May 1942

Iboat frolics




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Post #: 84
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/22/2018 8:00:01 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

May 1942

Experimenting with Iboats used as intel gathering...and testing his ASW. Late war these boats would be in trouble with air and DE hunting them down and killing them.

I have no idea what a 70 skill recon trained Glen pilot can report back, but I want to use them in flights of 3 or 4. Day or night depending upon the anticipated threat level.



I think I'll do ofthe Glen an amphib recon in my mod; alternatively alongside a "bomber" variant as well camera equipped, if one really would like;

btw I spend a lot, a lot of resources in having the first Seiran equipped I boats in service, just because I like the Seiran that much (when resized);

I'll change this too in the mod, which shall provide Seiran equipped groups

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 85
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/23/2018 2:48:36 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Mid May, 1942

Allies can start to flex their muscles here, but there is a disturbing lack of follow on. Nice landing, but nothing supporting it so far, other than a mild sub infestation -- lost a lone trawler (2vp) yesterday in the Marshalls.

Mini KB and 4 battleships and many heavy cruisers are at Nauru. AKEs, ADs, and a few oilers are in support, while fast transport invasion forces are assembling to grab some of the dot bases. 2 Divisions are prepping for Tabby along with support.

At present, I want to keep the carriers back, grab a dot base, put on it 50 Rufes and use them as a round the clock surface bombardment force against Tabby. Grab several other dot bases for search purposes, & keep strengthening search, and see what I can see.






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Post #: 86
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/23/2018 6:59:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Bombardments have started at Tabby...recon back up to 40,000 troops. 2nd Marine Div ...

Actually got a small bombardment in the several days ago...heavy cruisers today, battleships for the next two days by which time the cruisers will be back in position. Covered by the mini KB for now...

I got a comment in an email during the Ceylon invasion how I was devastating his small patrol craft like no other...




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(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 87
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/24/2018 12:47:10 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Mid May,1942

Operations around Tabby continue apace...several Allied ships show up after the last bombardment.

Junyo and miniKB show up and only attack the Taney...an excellent long legged ship.

The Navy was hesitant to enter Tabby waters for fear of mines,but recon doesn't spot any...so bombardment will go in; and two small SAGs will pursue well past Tabby.

Worrisome, an Iboat has 10/10 dl near Baker to the east...even a flank run by the Allied CVs shouldn't expose the IJN.

Fast transport invasion of the dot base north of Tabby...

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tabiteuea at 137,134

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
D3A1 Val x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
PC Taney, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring PC Taney



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/24/2018 12:53:19 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 88
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/24/2018 1:01:11 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		A lot going on...




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Post #: 89
RE: Lowpe (Japan) vs Wargamr (Allies) - 8/24/2018 4:12:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Mid to late May, 1942

A destroyer blunders yesterday into a mine at Tabby, but she will make it one hex and disband into the dot base north of Tabby...

Subs are starting to show up...Porpoise and Perch I think.

Meanwhile two bombardment TFs show up at Tabby, and we catch more freshly created PT boat squadrons. The resulting turkey shoot is par for the course with the lone surviving PT boat destroyed in the morning.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Tabiteuea at 137,134, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Isonami
DD Shirayuki
DMS W-11

Allied Ships
PT-32, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-33, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-34, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-35, Shell hits 1, on fire
PT-36, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-37, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-38, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
PT-39, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-40, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-41, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-42, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-43, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 57% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 9,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 9,000 yards
Allied ships attempt to get underway
PT-43 sunk by CA Kako at 9,000 yards
PT-40 sunk by CA Kako at 9,000 yards
PT-36 sunk by CA Kako at 9,000 yards
PT-32 sunk by CA Aoba at 9,000 yards




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/24/2018 4:15:44 PM >

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