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Connect Four Team Game - 8/23/2018 3:54:59 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Connect Four Team Game

This is the AAR for both sides of the Connect Four Team game

The signup and rules for the game can be found here

Highlights of the game set up are

Campaign 1941-45
-fog of war
-random weather
-+1 Soviet bonus
-mild blizzard

There are two other team games currently taking place mentioned in these forums. This one is more focused on new or inexperienced players of the game. This team game does not have Supreme commanders but each team can have a more experienced Chief of Staff. However they are restricted by the rules from combat air missions or "pushing the units."

Also unlike previous team games the use of Discord has been built in from the start for all communications and all players must use it.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/23/2018 3:55:49 PM >
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RE: Connect Four Team Game - 8/23/2018 4:08:36 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Unfortunately this game had to be abandoned due to trolling problems later. It is a shame as some of us put a lot of work into making this one work. The AAR below is still available to read. However I would recommend going through other team game AARs like the 8MP team game or the 2x3+ team game instead.

Teams

At the start of this game the team sides are

Axis
North: Neogodhobo
Centre & Air: Searry
South: Joneleth
Chief of Staff: Telemecus

Soviet
North: DadeCariaga
Centre: thedoctorking
South: ICalli
Chief of Staff: SparkleyTits

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/17/2020 8:17:43 PM >

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C4 T001 - 8/23/2018 5:00:01 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis North Turn 1

quote:

Neogodhobo
My idea about Leningrad, well , to capture it.


quote:

Neogodhobo
I won't be making any pockets. ...My goal is not to eliminate Soviet division, but to get to Leningrad
After this Il clean house


quote:

Neogodhobo
The main plan was not to go to Riga for North.





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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/23/2018 5:01:54 PM >

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RE: C4 T001 - 8/23/2018 5:10:31 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Centre Turn 1

The Plan




The Result




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RE: C4 T001 - 8/23/2018 5:22:02 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis South Turn 1

More than two corps of 2nd Panzer Group were lent to the south - in particular with the hope of trapping the units around Shepetovka.




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RE: C4 T001 - 8/23/2018 5:27:07 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Air Turn 1

quote:

Searry
I throught kabuki was just something you threw in for laughs





The Kharkhov tank factory and Osinovets port were also bombed

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/4/2018 11:05:43 AM >

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RE: C4 T001 - 8/23/2018 5:29:05 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Allocations Turn 1

For information only.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/8/2018 9:41:37 PM >

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C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:54:15 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Connect 4 AAR: Turn 1
Turn one saw a dramatic departure from the standard Axis opening. There has been a lot of grousing on the forums lately about the stereotyped nature of the opening attack, with debate worthy of chess books about precisely which route German armored corps should take to isolate and kill the largest number of Soviet units and make the most mileage consistent with safety and good supply delivery later. Our Axis opponents decided to abandon that stereotyped strategy in favor of an extremely aggressive set of moves, declining to seal pockets in order to gain as much ground as possible with their armor.
The Germans made none of the standard pockets in the Baltic States. The Soviet forces in northern Lithuania were unmolested, and Riga was still in our hands. The German Panzer Group in the north crossed the Dvina at Livani, downriver from Daugavpils, with the apparent intention of moving either towards Pskov directly or along the Riga-Velikie Luki rail line to support Army Group Center’s moves. It is possible that the Axis has decided to ignore the northern sector altogether in favor of an immediate move on Moscow. Another German Panzer Group ended up just south of the Dvina at the northern end of Army Group Center’s line, possibly aiming at Polotsk but more likely intending a move southeastward towards Smolensk.





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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:55:03 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		In the center, similarly, the German armored moves were very aggressive. One Panzer Corps ended up concentrated in the vicinity of Voropaevo, along the rail line from Vilnius to Smolensk. The other is spread out from Baranovichi to north of Minsk, creating a secondary pocket north of Novogrudek in addition to the usual first-turn pocket around Bialystok. In a remarkable development, though, neither of these pockets is sealed, permitting the escape of at least some of those units. The normal Axis priority on destroying Soviet units has apparently been tossed to the wind, replaced with a priority on taking territory. Perhaps the expectation is that those units will be rounded up in subsequent turns without the need for the intervention of the armor.
The Germans made a number of fuel resupply drops to the armor in this region, leading me to suspect that they intend another aggressive drive forward through the land bridge.





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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:56:03 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		In the south, a similar pattern emerged. German armored forces pushed forward along three main axes, attempting a pocket around Shepetovka as well as seizing extensive real estate in central Ukraine. The northernmost pocket, around Kovel, was solidly sealed with infantry, but none of the others were closed beyond the possibility of reopening.




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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:56:49 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		The Axis first-turn air attacks were moderately successful. Only about 4100 airframes were destroyed, but many of those destroyed were first-line models. The Luftwaffe obviously had good intelligence on where our best planes were to be found, and sacrificed overall destructiveness for removing the units most threatening to them.
The Germans also made a first-turn strategic bombing raid on Osinovets, the Lake Ladoga port that provides supply to Leningrad if it is cut off by land. This would tend to suggest that they are planning to move on Leningrad instead of the push directly on Moscow that I feared.





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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:57:39 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		We didn’t do much that was unexpected, I suppose. In the north, the Northwest Front units that were spared in Lithuania retreated to the vicinity of Riga. Those that could be moved by sea made their way to safer ports to the north. We put a significant force into Riga itself with the hope of either holding the city until mud or at least forcing Army Group North to divert some of its armor to take the place. The listed defensive CV of the city is now 63, at fort level 2 and with a screen of divisions around it preventing direct assault. No infantry is near enough to participate in an attack, so German armor would have to turn away from the eastward or northeastward routes to take the place next turn. And turn after that it will be even stronger.
Northern Front consolidated its position around Pskov. There is almost nothing to the south between there and Polotsk, but the terrain is awful and I can’t see unescorted armor plunging into the swamps on turn 2. There is a reserve corps on the direct rail line to Velikie Luki if the AGN armor decides to take that route.





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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:58:58 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		In the center, we broke the pockets and lightly pocketed a German Panzer Corps in our turn. Our pockets will not slow the Germans too much, but with their command interfered with, they will not make admin rolls as easily, and so they will have a few less movement points than they otherwise would have on turn 2. And without fuel deliveries on turn two, hopefully they will have a lot fewer movement points on turn 3 than they otherwise would have. We brought in a couple of reserve corps to strengthen the Polotsk and Ulla River lines ahead of the expected German push in that area. We left two airborne brigades to defend Minsk and pulled back to a screen in the swamp region. It is possible that the armor near Baranovichi intends to drive southeastwards into the swamps to cut off the Soviet forces there. I’d actually be happy if that happened because it is almost never a good thing to send armor into swamps. I remember my first pvp game of this, against Twigster last winter, when he threw two panzer armies into a grinding offensive through the swamps along the shore of Lake Ladoga, trying to take the ports and cut off Leningrad.




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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 7:59:56 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		The south was the sector where we were the most imperiled, and where we sent most of our reserve forces. The very aggressive German push along the southern border of the marshes opens up the possibility of armored forces cooperating with Army Group Center to cut off our troops there. We opened all the pockets, but our forward forces are in danger of being pocketed again, with a broad sweep to the south quite conceivable. Probably, every unit west of Zhitomir and north of the Romanian border will die eventually, just like those guys in the Bialystok region. But delaying their deaths for a turn means that German attackers will be delayed getting to the places they want to be. The clock is ticking.
One major advantage of being able to break these pockets is that we were able to withdraw all the SU assigned to those forward headquarters. Something like 50 experienced SU that would otherwise have become casualties were sent back to STAVKA. This will make a big difference to our resilience going forward.





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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/23/2018 8:00:59 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Our losses this turn were moderate: 339,000 and 9 divisions. I would say that for a 6/22/41 turn, this was good for the USSR. I expect we’ll be meeting the western Allies on the Seine instead of the Elbe in 1945.




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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/24/2018 11:51:22 AM   
Searry

 

Posts: 848
Joined: 1/24/2014
Status: offline 		Concentrating on the actual good AC was the goal. I don't know how effective it is to kill the obsolescent types as they look like free kills for the Germans to me?

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Post #: 16
RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/25/2018 12:22:09 AM   
iwolfhound

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 2/7/2017
Status: offline 		Riga--Odessa on the Baltic.

A tale of two cities.

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Post #: 17
RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/26/2018 3:21:13 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iwolfhound

Riga--Odessa on the Baltic.

A tale of two cities.

As you'll see, they ended up getting them both though a little behind schedule.

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Post #: 18
C4 Axis T2 - 8/27/2018 12:31:00 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis North Turn 2

quote:

Neogodhobo
Smoke plume will cover the Eastern sky





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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/27/2018 12:59:17 PM >

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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/27/2018 5:18:15 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

Concentrating on the actual good AC was the goal. I don't know how effective it is to kill the obsolescent types as they look like free kills for the Germans to me?

I think you get morale and experience for killing I-153's and such. Also, those squadrons will continue to exist and can be re-equipped with better aircraft. In the last two games I've started as the Germans, I have concentrated on just killing as many Soviet a/c as I can.

We've actually been getting pretty good mileage out of our I-153 and I-16 squadrons. Right now, turn 7, there's a squadron with 71 experience and 20-odd kills that's flying I-153's (it is in Northern/Leningrad Air Command and shot down a bunch of your unescorted level bombers, so special case). The game doesn't seem to be in a hurry to upgrade them for free and we have plenty of uses for AP so we haven't done it manually.

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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/27/2018 5:23:42 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
Concentrating on the actual good AC was the goal. I don't know how effective it is to kill the obsolescent types as they look like free kills for the Germans to me?

I think you get morale and experience for killing I-153's and such. Also, those squadrons will continue to exist and can be re-equipped with better aircraft. In the last two games I've started as the Germans, I have concentrated on just killing as many Soviet a/c as I can.


Remember though that just maximising bomber kills only increases morale on your bombers. The key is really to get your Axis fighters into high morale and experience which you cannot really do on turn 1. At least in my experience in older versions the I153s really are the ones to get your 109s into the 90s experience zone early on.

(Attached is a picture for the post on turn 2 of South)

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/3/2018 7:12:08 PM >

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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/27/2018 7:35:22 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
Concentrating on the actual good AC was the goal. I don't know how effective it is to kill the obsolescent types as they look like free kills for the Germans to me?

I think you get morale and experience for killing I-153's and such. Also, those squadrons will continue to exist and can be re-equipped with better aircraft. In the last two games I've started as the Germans, I have concentrated on just killing as many Soviet a/c as I can.


Remember though that just maximising bomber kills only increases morale on your bombers. The key is really to get your Axis fighters into high morale and experience which you cannot really do on turn 1. At least in my experience in older versions the I153s really are the ones to get your 109s into the 90s experience zone early on.


Their fighters have been having fatigue problems and have not been as effective as they hoped, I think. It seems like they are morale-cycling them now (turn 7). There are about 100 German fighters on each front plus the Axis allies in the south. This is another thing that gives our little cheesy 1934 planes a chance to still be effective.

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RE: C4 Axis T2 - 8/28/2018 9:20:26 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Centre Turn 2 Start

No combat during the Soviet turn - both pockets were broken in to just by movement. A corps of 2nd Panzer Group is also left isolated from supply. Some Soviet marauders even manage to break one hex of German rail.




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RE: C4 AAR Soviet turn 1 - 8/30/2018 9:16:25 AM   
Erzac


Posts: 57
Joined: 9/8/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
Concentrating on the actual good AC was the goal. I don't know how effective it is to kill the obsolescent types as they look like free kills for the Germans to me?

I think you get morale and experience for killing I-153's and such. Also, those squadrons will continue to exist and can be re-equipped with better aircraft. In the last two games I've started as the Germans, I have concentrated on just killing as many Soviet a/c as I can.


Remember though that just maximising bomber kills only increases morale on your bombers. The key is really to get your Axis fighters into high morale and experience which you cannot really do on turn 1. At least in my experience in older versions the I153s really are the ones to get your 109s into the 90s experience zone early on.


Their fighters have been having fatigue problems and have not been as effective as they hoped, I think. It seems like they are morale-cycling them now (turn 7). There are about 100 German fighters on each front plus the Axis allies in the south. This is another thing that gives our little cheesy 1934 planes a chance to still be effective.


There haven't been *cough*, nor will there ever be *cough*, any problems regarding fatigue or morale in the Luftwaffe.

Regards,
Erzac - Axis air commander(from turn 4 onwards).

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Post #: 24
RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/2/2018 9:12:20 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Centre Turn 2

quote:

Searry
my strategy is not caring about dnepr


quote:

Searry
they're plannning for a marsh insurgency clearly
too bad for them I will ignore my south flank completely
well... gotta screen them





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RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/2/2018 9:36:27 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis South Turn 2 Start

Only the pocket around Kovel remains intact

quote:

Joneleth
they lost over 250 tanks trying to break the ZoC block on Shepetovk





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RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/3/2018 7:24:09 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis South Turn 2

Our North commander, Neogodhobo, advocates stripping the Centre to reinforce the South - and with high ambitions!

quote:

Neogodhobo
We should probably send lots of fast div. In the south and take the enemy by surprise. Slow down the advance on center to boost south. South could probably get to Baku in the first year with almost all fast div.


On turn 1 a suggestion to cut the rail line in the centre of the Pripyat marshes by ZOCing Luninets with a motorised units was turned down

quote:

Joneleth
im honestly not convinced its worth ... a mot brigade in a swamp

quote:

Searry
you'll regret it :wink:


But by turn 2 with all the other rail exits from the marshes cut, the value of having removed the only rail exit for units stranded there becomes apparent.

quote:

Telemecus
I see everyone now agrees with me that Luninets was a good idea on turn 1?
quote:

Searry
yes it would have been great
live and learn


The great thing about being asked to write AARs for others is you can gloat in hindsight

Our South commander sets out their plans




quote:

Joneleth
my primary objectives this turn
1. secure the pockets i made on T1
2. become in a good position to take Ochakov on T3
3. Pocket as many units along the romanian border as possible
4. position my myself as good as possible to take Odessa on T3 to T4
oh right also my main objective is flipping 72 106


Enormous efforts are made in securing the pockets

quote:

Joneleth
i made a spreadsheet that would make you guys proud just to make out a plan of MPs how to make up that line so the lowest MP divisions exactly had enough to find its place in the wall


They are very confident this time their pockets will hold

quote:

Joneleth
i already have a 3 hex corrider with alot of units
i honestly dont think ieven if it had full MP it could do anything


quote:

Joneleth
its literally not possible for him to break it from that angle due to MP so i used it to block him from chaining up the romanian border with the other pockets
he would need to cross an enemy hex in ZoC across a river AND then move one hex west


although some doubts occur afterwards

quote:

Joneleth
ive concluded where the 2 weakest spots in my line is 70 88 and 67 81...in retrospect i did some wrong calculations i never needed to split up that SS division i could just have had the full division in that hex





But the turn ends in the same high hopes as it began

quote:

Joneleth
i think i can safely predict that if my current pockets hold and i take Odessa and Ochakov on next turn then i have won the south then we are looking at Rostov army group split in 41


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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/4/2018 11:06:16 AM >

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RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/4/2018 11:18:27 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		STAVKA did warn about the swamps how there may be a possible pocket to be made there if two front commanders coordinated so we were all very happy that did not happen

The first few turns with the units in the swamps was all about the rail cap for us and no bigger strategic reasons so Axis aggresion would of likely payed off there

Like you said though, Hindsight is easy after the fact!

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 28
RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/4/2018 12:43:38 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Air Turn 2

quote:

Searry
I think .. this, could be heavy on my conscience though


Our air commander wrestles heavily with the Kabuki on his conscience. Ten minutes later..

quote:

Searry
so evil I love it...I fear my kabuki is going to extreme levels


Our bombing of Osinoves was unescorted - but it almost looks like our Ju88s were dogfighting with their MiG-3s!




Getting bases with enough ammo and fuel was a particular problem this turn. One curiosity was an airbase which started the turn on rails and full of aircraft but only 4 of fuel. The only explanation was that its air HQ had been isolated during our logistics phase - but this would not follow the manual and patch notes description of how airbase supply should work.

We are also starting to see shorter range bombers gravitate to the North where the ranges required are shorter anyway.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/4/2018 1:19:52 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: C4 Axis T2 - 9/4/2018 12:45:29 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Axis Air Losses Turn 2

A lot of airgroups withdrawing soon were swapped to older models. And our air commander discovered that air transfering air groups to a base with no movement points left meant they could no longer fly for the rest of this turn. Together with aircraft going to reserve to recover from the exertions of turn 1 this meant a smaller air force for use this turn. Nevertheless our air commander scores a few "jackpots" in bombing airbases to give us the following air losses this turn




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/4/2018 1:20:16 PM >

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