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Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 6:00:37 PM

jwolf

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I'm playing as Allies against AI Japan, with PDU off. Game is currently in late 1944. Some of my cruisers (not sure about other ships) fly Seagulls but unfortunately the pool is empty, I don't think any are made anymore, and these planes won't upgrade to anything else. Am I stuck with these squadrons gradually withering away to nothing?

Post #: 1

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 6:15:56 PM

btd64

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With PDU off and Seagulls out of production then yes your squadrons will shrink. With your long range air search you don't need them anyway....GP

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 6:48:24 PM

Leandros

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Is it not possible to use Kingfishers?

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 7:25:17 PM

witpqs

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quote:

Seagull shortage

Try Lake Erie. Just trust me.

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 7:30:12 PM

btd64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

Seagull shortage

Try Lake Erie. Just trust me.

They bomb pretty good too.

....GP

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 7:34:28 PM

Lokasenna

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I'm unsure right now, but I think there may be an upgrade here - I think there are 2 Seagull models? In late 1944, it's possible that the model you were using has run out and the other has begun production.

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Post #: 6

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 8:06:22 PM

BillBrown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

Seagull shortage

Try Lake Erie. Just trust me.

I grew up on the coast of Southern California, I hate Seagulls.

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Post #: 7

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 8:23:45 PM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

Seagull shortage

Try Lake Erie. Just trust me.

Toss out some chips!

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Post #: 8

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 8:30:26 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
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This is an inherent problem that seems to span across multiple scenarios.

You quickly run out of Seagulls and the Kingfisher production/replacement rate is way, way too low to ever be able to convert all your Seagulls.

Even worse ships entering in 45, mostly CLs still enter with Seagulls aboard long after you have run of of them.

Many of my 18 capacity Kingfisher squadrons are still unfilled in early '45 due to the paucity of airframes for the squadrons that need them.

I give priority to the ships that need them.

I play with PDU on, but there is no other airframe, but the Kingfishers to use in place of Seagulls.

AFBs drool over the floatplanes the JFBs get. Floatplanes is a decided Allied weakness.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 8/28/2018 8:32:33 PM >

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 8:41:23 PM

btd64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Many of my 18 capacity Kingfisher squadrons are still unfilled in early '45 due to the paucity of airframes for the squadrons that need them.

Many of these squadrons can upgrade to SBD-5's....GP

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Post #: 10

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 9:24:10 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Many of my 18 capacity Kingfisher squadrons are still unfilled in early '45 due to the paucity of airframes for the squadrons that need them.

Many of these squadrons can upgrade to SBD-5's....GP

Yes, but in March of '45 I already have way more land based SBDs than I have a use for.

Probably makes sense to copnvert anyway to free up Kingfishers for my CLs.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 8/28/2018 9:25:01 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 11:08:41 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Many of my 18 capacity Kingfisher squadrons are still unfilled in early '45 due to the paucity of airframes for the squadrons that need them.

Many of these squadrons can upgrade to SBD-5's....GP

Yes, but in March of '45 I already have way more land based SBDs than I have a use for.

Probably makes sense to copnvert anyway to free up Kingfishers for my CLs.

Most of the JFBs drool over the surfeit of Dauntless SBDs in the game.

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Post #: 12

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 11:11:06 PM

dcpollay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

Seagull shortage

Try Lake Erie. Just trust me.

I grew up on the coast of Southern California, I hate Seagulls.

Yeah. Dumpster chickens.

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Post #: 13

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/28/2018 11:59:10 PM

Anachro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
I grew up on the coast of Southern California, I hate Seagulls.

A fellow Southern Californian. Where on the coast? Out in Santa Clarita where I grew up, in the high desert, Seagulls were a myth.

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Post #: 14

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 12:22:22 AM

BillBrown

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Pacific Beach, they are not a myth.

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Post #: 15

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 12:59:22 AM

Chickenboy

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Pali High here (Pacific Palisades). They were an omnipresent scourge on all things in the area.

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Post #: 16

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 9:27:54 AM

HansBolter

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They have pretty much overrun Florida as well.

So much so that one would expect them to be the state bird, but that honor is held by the Mocking bird.

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Post #: 17

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 10:38:13 AM

fodder

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As a kid no one cared if you went to the dump to shoot rats or seagulls. (on the ground)

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Post #: 18

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 10:50:27 AM

inqistor

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Hmm, interesting.

Curtiss SOC Seagull was supposed to be replaced by Curtiss SO3C Seamew, of which 795 were build (two times as much, as Seagulls). But plane was considered a failure, and was removed from front line by 1944, and Seagulls were returned back to duty.
There is Seamew plane in game, but it have whooping production of 4 for one month.

Vought OS2U Kingfisher was replaced by Curtiss SC Seahawk, of which 577 were build, beginning delivery on 22 October 1944, but I don't see such plane in database. And neither Seagull, or Kingfisher upgrade to anything.

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Post #: 19

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 1:01:07 PM

jwolf

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Thanks for the replies, especially for the fond remarks about real seagulls. :) I grew up in Southern California and at my junior high in Long Beach we had constant bombing attacks from the gulls. I luckily never got hit but I knew several others who did. The students even begged the administration to build a bird bomb shelter so we could eat lunch in peace.

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Post #: 20

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 2:18:29 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Hmm, interesting.

Curtiss SOC Seagull was supposed to be replaced by Curtiss SO3C Seamew, of which 795 were build (two times as much, as Seagulls). But plane was considered a failure, and was removed from front line by 1944, and Seagulls were returned back to duty.
There is Seamew plane in game, but it have whooping production of 4 for one month.

Vought OS2U Kingfisher was replaced by Curtiss SC Seahawk, of which 577 were build, beginning delivery on 22 October 1944, but I don't see such plane in database. And neither Seagull, or Kingfisher upgrade to anything.

In Stock scenarios the SOC upgrades to the Kingfisher. No problems there and the Kingfisher is a very good float plane. Crews especially like how you can grow tomatoes in the greenhouse canopy - does wonders for morale!

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Post #: 21

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 2:48:06 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Hmm, interesting.

Curtiss SOC Seagull was supposed to be replaced by Curtiss SO3C Seamew, of which 795 were build (two times as much, as Seagulls). But plane was considered a failure, and was removed from front line by 1944, and Seagulls were returned back to duty.
There is Seamew plane in game, but it have whooping production of 4 for one month.

Vought OS2U Kingfisher was replaced by Curtiss SC Seahawk, of which 577 were build, beginning delivery on 22 October 1944, but I don't see such plane in database. And neither Seagull, or Kingfisher upgrade to anything.

In game the Seamews have a greater range than the Kingfishers and so I find them appealing.

I have them operating from the Langley and sure would love to have 795 of them in the pool.

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Post #: 22

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 4:12:26 PM

jcjordan

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In my personal scenario I've been working on, I remedy the Seamew rates plus add in the Seahawk. In my stock games, I've not had problems filling out my seaplane units except early war when the allies are screaming for any & all planes by midwar my units are fine w/ a fair amount of replacements on hand & it gets better when most of the 18 plane Kingfisher units withdraw/upgrade.

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Post #: 23

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 4:21:09 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Many of my 18 capacity Kingfisher squadrons are still unfilled in early '45 due to the paucity of airframes for the squadrons that need them.

Many of these squadrons can upgrade to SBD-5's....GP

Yes, but in March of '45 I already have way more land based SBDs than I have a use for.

Probably makes sense to copnvert anyway to free up Kingfishers for my CLs.

Yeah, this.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 24

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 4:23:00 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

In my personal scenario I've been working on, I remedy the Seamew rates plus add in the Seahawk. In my stock games, I've not had problems filling out my seaplane units except early war when the allies are screaming for any & all planes by midwar my units are fine w/ a fair amount of replacements on hand & it gets better when most of the 18 plane Kingfisher units withdraw/upgrade.

I've never noticed a problem with my USN float plane units not having enough planes, except perhaps some of the Kingfisher units which I refused to fill out.

For Seagulls, there were always plenty. But I really do not use them for anything except recon for bombardment missions. They are too few and too short-legged to be useful; any job they would do other than bombardment spotting is already being performed by more capable aircraft.

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Post #: 25

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/29/2018 10:41:47 PM

geofflambert

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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
I grew up on the coast of Southern California, I hate Seagulls.

A fellow Southern Californian. Where on the coast? Out in Santa Clarita where I grew up, in the high desert, Seagulls were a myth.

Remember the story of the Mormons in Utah, the locusts and the seagulls. Not a myth.

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Post #: 26

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/30/2018 2:34:58 AM

CaptBeefheart

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From: Seoul, Korea
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The one thing late game Allied floatplanes are good for is bombardment recon, so it is nice if the pools don't run out.

I went to junior high in Irvine, CA, near MCAS El Toro, which was very cool for the air show in the years prior to "Top Gun" (i.e. it had about 20,000 attendees vs. 250,000), although less cool having F-4s and A-4s on approach near your house (engines were loud in those days). Anyway, I was surprised at how these California schools had no cafeterias, so you actually had to eat lunch outside on picnic benches. Unfortunately, this attracted gazillions of marine pigeons (i.e. seagulls) as kids would get angry at the birds, throw food at the birds, miss the birds, and then the birds would eat the food thrown at them and multiply. It was a vicious, vicious cycle. I recall getting beaned on the head once, so I did better than most of my classmates.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Seagull shortage - 8/30/2018 7:52:21 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

The one thing late game Allied floatplanes are good for is bombardment recon, so it is nice if the pools don't run out.

I went to junior high in Irvine, CA, near MCAS El Toro, which was very cool for the air show in the years prior to "Top Gun" (i.e. it had about 20,000 attendees vs. 250,000), although less cool having F-4s and A-4s on approach near your house (engines were loud in those days). Anyway, I was surprised at how these California schools had no cafeterias, so you actually had to eat lunch outside on picnic benches. Unfortunately, this attracted gazillions of marine pigeons (i.e. seagulls) as kids would get angry at the birds, throw food at the birds, miss the birds, and then the birds would eat the food thrown at them and multiply. It was a vicious, vicious cycle. I recall getting beaned on the head once, so I did better than most of my classmates.

Cheers,
CB

Eh, eh ... what's that you say sonny?

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 28

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/30/2018 8:03:40 AM

geofflambert

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Ah, the good old days ... When the women were better looking and I knew what the heck trigonometry was, and quadratic equations. I remember once upon a time, you could diagram sentences, a lost art now. I remember they taught us about the "greenhouse effect". They could measure it, back in those days. Now it's all a hoax.

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Post #: 29

RE: Seagull shortage - 8/30/2018 8:13:11 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
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How many here can still use a slide rule? It was like magic to me then. It's like the astrolabe of my time.

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Post #: 30