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RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/3/2018 9:24:54 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 25

The tide may be turning against the US here. Despite the arrival of 25th Divn, which in truth comprises little more than an artillery rich Brigade five provinces note new activity by the VC and I fail to find any...

This reduces VP's to +44 and EVV remains at 47.

During my turn a bridge is dropped on the Trail and the second NVA Regt that had tried to take Dong Ha is finished off whilst an artillery heavy NVA HQ in North Vietnam is repeatedly shelled and bombed to good effect but little else is possible until the VC show themselves.


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Post #: 31
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/3/2018 3:55:00 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 26

The rest of 25th Division including some much needed tanks arrive in theatre this turn and are immediatley sent to Quang Tri to help the defence of Dong Ha and areas to the west.

This is successful so far with the help of the navy and Strat bombers who also drop a supply bridge in Quang Tri province, and as a bonus the ARVN further south actually manage to spot and destroy half a dozen VC but this probably just means the number in country is proportionately higher !

EVV remains at 47 but VP's ticked down again to 43...

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Post #: 32
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/4/2018 7:22:04 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 28

EVV has ticked up to 49 with the arrival of the Australians but VP's fall back to +41 this turn as Larry launches heavy attacks by the NVA into Quang Tri to coincide with the monsoon. Dong Ha just about holds and NVA losses are exceptionally high but hwe is still making progress in the north and insult is added to injusr as rockets attacks Tuy Hoa airbase and take out all 16 F5's based there.

A counter attack is ordered and ARVN regimwents are choppered in behind the NVA lines in Quang tri but a failed proficiency test stops the offensive when it has barely begun and the ARVN troops are left extremely exposed...

This could be really serious for the north depending on the health of the NVA in the area after their losses...



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Post #: 33
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/5/2018 7:57:37 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 29

There is considerable VC activity popping up particularly around the central provinces whose hills and jungles are difficult to patrol. The attacks in Quang tri also continue with a couple of Border units shelled into oblivion but the couple of direct attacks as usual end up in mass NVA losses. Dong Ha is attacked again but again the attacks are fought off.

VP's have remained constant somehow at +41 and EVV at 49 but I am forced into multiple attacks often having to rely on air support as troop numbers are not really adequate in many areas other than the Delta.

Fortunately the attacks in Quang Tri mostly succeed and a large number of NVA are wiped out thanks to naval and air support and the exposed ARVN Regiments are saved.







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Post #: 34
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/6/2018 7:45:48 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 30

EVV ups to 50 but thankfully VP's also tick up to +43 after a few tricky turns as the latest NLF offensive appears to have been stifled and the VC get their first VP penalty of 1 for losses.

ARVN and US forces retake Khe Sanh and Con Thien in Quang Tri province and push the remaining NVA back to the Cambodian border.... A brief respite but it gives the Dong Ha garrison some welcome rest.

In the central provinces more VC are destroyed and the Australians and koreans are engaged in bust search and destroy operations between the Cambodian border and the coast in central Sth Vietnam. The only cloud in the sky is a failed attempt to take out 3 NVA HQ's stacked on the Trail using Strategic Bombers that are roughly handled by the AA and achieve nothing.




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Post #: 35
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/7/2018 8:02:47 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 32

Last turn was speant kicking out the remnants of the NVA invasion of Quang Tri but VP's stayed stable at 43 and EVV tripped up again.

This turn (32) the VP's again don't move but the VC appear in large numbers and though they do not make more than one unsuccessful attack before disbanding they manage to convert a lot of hexes that I have trouble reconverting whilst still trying to guard bridges.

The NVA are lurking on the trail in Laos and Cambodia so there is nothing to fight with the Air Cav and I decide a readjustment of forces is necessart. The Light Div is called in and the Air Cav withdrawn in the hope it will get me some EVV respite by disbanding the Air Cav and that extra ground forces that are mobile are necessary to recapture territory from the VC. Possibly flawed logic but we will see.

The Strat Bombers drop a couple of bridges on the trail and hit some NVA infantry gathering in Laos but otherwise a quiet turn.

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Post #: 36
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/9/2018 8:50:19 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's a case where the best AA guns the NVA have is a 37mm piece and yet it shot down three B-52's. Buffs don't usually come down into the weeds to bomb their targets. I saw one land at Bien Hoa late one night and it was gone in the morning but that's the only time I ever saw a Buff in South Vietnam. They usually stay up there at 30K or more. I don't want to critisize the TOAW IV game engine but I'd like a little more logic applied to the resolution of the combat. The 37mm guns probably couldn't get a hit on the Buffs but I have no heartburn over the loss of the AC-47's because one or more of them were probably, in fact, lost in the real war. There was an experiment with using them over the HCM trail but the conditions were not ideal for a low slow clumsy aircraft and several of them were damaged. The decision was made to use them in-country only from then on.




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Post #: 37
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/9/2018 9:01:07 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Ian has formed a perimeter near the borders where the VC or NVA would have problems getting into the interior and that's not a bad idea. I'm waiting for the monsoon season to make my strikes to avoid most of the awesume air power Ian has. The idea is to swamp the defenses near Saigon to draw as much Allied equipment down south to leave the north relatively bare so that I can move the NVA east into the mountainous areas and see how that works out. Ian has disbanded the 1st CAV and there are few airmobile units left on his team and I'd like to see how the NVA handle themselves.

Those VC units in the image haven't moved yet and I'm going to disband them at any rate.

It's already October '67 and time for some fireworks.




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Post #: 38
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/10/2018 7:27:37 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 36...November 1967

The last turn being cut short by a failed proficiency check after a single round of Strategic bombing on the Trail and trying to re-occupy multiple hexes converted by the invisible VC , this turn I found the VC to have been just as active and although the forces in the Delta are sufficient to reconvert almost every hex, those further north are having more problems.

As such I decide another force rejig is necessary. The fairly impotent Air Cav have been withdrawn (they have proved vulnerable to both AA and rocket attack) and another Infantry Division requested.

The EVV has been 55 for the last couple of turns and VP's static at 41 so we will see how that affects things.

The NVA has been quiet again awaiting another monsoon I suspect.

The good news is that I managed to knock out all three RR repair units improving the Trail.


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Post #: 39
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/11/2018 2:59:07 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Turn 36...November 1967

The last turn being cut short by a failed proficiency check after a single round of Strategic bombing on the Trail and trying to re-occupy multiple hexes converted by the invisible VC , this turn I found the VC to have been just as active and although the forces in the Delta are sufficient to reconvert almost every hex, those further north are having more problems.

As such I decide another force rejig is necessary. The fairly impotent Air Cav have been withdrawn (they have proved vulnerable to both AA and rocket attack) and another Infantry Division requested.

The EVV has been 55 for the last couple of turns and VP's static at 41 so we will see how that affects things.

The NVA has been quiet again awaiting another monsoon I suspect.

The good news is that I managed to knock out all three RR repair units improving the Trail.




It is interesting that your VP points have stopped (temporarily?) at 41. From reading the Word document for this scenario you are probably aware that at +60VP the FWA will start reducing the EEV by one every two turns.

What you may not be aware of is that that event used to be set to fire at 40+ FWA VP. So in earlier scenrio versions you would already have been drastically slowing EEV growth. That used to make it easier for a fast US build up to beat the EEV clock.

You can also expect the VPs you get for pacification to drop from 3 to just 1 when you get close to triggering that event at 60+ VP. That simulates the fact that you have gained control or the loyalty of so much of South Vietnam's population that further VPs for pacification are harder to come by.

< Message edited by Hyding -- 9/11/2018 3:02:25 AM >

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Post #: 40
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/11/2018 3:03:04 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Oh and thanks for the AAR guys! Much appreciated.

< Message edited by Hyding -- 9/11/2018 3:05:31 AM >

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Post #: 41
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/11/2018 3:17:56 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Oh and Ian,could you please mention the number of provinces that get the VC Activity news announcement each turn?

For those who have not played the game the provinces listed under that news thread are the ones in which the NLF player accomplished two things: First they converted a new hex in their turn and held it through the following FWA turn. Second they made a percentage check based on the population/importance of the province.

It gives a good indication of the volume and success of NLF activities in south Vietnam.


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Post #: 42
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/11/2018 8:33:19 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 37.

Firstly, thanks for the info Hyding...A trigger of 40 would have been handy !

This turn there are 5 provinces noting new VC activity compared to 2 last turn, reflecting the problems with a lot of VC activity last turn. The 25th Division began to arrive and the Air Cav were withdrawn so a combination of all of the above saw EVV up again to 55 and VP's fall to +38.

Only one VC unit is visible on map this turn (None last turn) with the rest disbanded so apart from trying to reconvert hexes I have little to do with my ground forces. The overall situation has the northern provinces almost totally under ARVN control as is the Delta but Kontum is still a problem in the centre, as are the neighbouring provinces.
My problem is that with nothing to fight the VC are able to pop up, convert and disappear and I am having problems reconverting all the hexes with the forces U have....it's a tricky one.

My Strat Bombers have been invaluable though and they drop another bridge and destroy the 308th Div Hq this turn.

_____________________________

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Post #: 43
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/12/2018 4:22:55 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 38...Jan 1968

As the new year begins VP's tick back up to +40 for the US though EVV is now 57.

The rest of the 23rd Division arrive and are much needed in the central provinces. This last turn there was VC activity recorded in Kontum (again!) and Binh Dinh but a co ordinates attack on Chau Phu was fought off by a ARVN recon unit thanks to heavy air support.

During the ARVN turn all US Strategic Bombers were unfortunately on reorganisation so action was limited to destroying a stray VC Sapper battalion in the Delta.

_____________________________

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Post #: 44
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/12/2018 7:41:22 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 39

Now I have big problems. VP's plummet to +32 after there is activity from the VC in An Xuyen,Quang Tin,Vinh Binh and Quang Ngai and the VC storm Tan An down in the Delta.

Whilst the ARVN 3rd Division was able to retake the town which should recoup some of the VP's lost next turn it illustrates how vulnerable a lot of these towns are given the need to send troops out into the boonies re-occupying converted territory.

The Delta area is actually one of the most secure pieces of real estate I have so it is particularly annoying.

I have made some adjustments to the air deployments this turn in an attempt to be more effective so we will see if it makes a difference.

EVV popped up again to 58 to add icing to the cake !

_____________________________

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Post #: 45
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/13/2018 10:08:33 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 40......

Oh boy....All hell breaks loose as Larry launches his version of the Tet Offensive.

Something I never managed during my attempt at playing the VC side, despite its eventual success was proper co-ordination between widespread VC activity and a full on NVA invasion but Larry nails it.

Serious attacks are made on Truc Giang, Gia Nghai, Tay Ninh, Dong Ha and Khe Sanh. and province wise Tuyen Doc, Khan Hoa and Quang Ngai all record fresh VC activity. A combination of all of this mayhem is that VP's plunge to +23 (from 32 last turn) as VC units enter Truc Giang and the garrison at Khe Sanh is wiped out.

After much barrel scraping and heavy fighting Truc Giang is retaken but units across the country are pulled out of position and there is the loud sound of tolling bells heard in Saigon :-)

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Post #: 46
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/13/2018 4:45:45 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 41

April 1968 and the VC melt away as quickly as they had come giving the South of the country at least some respite.

As a result, with the recapture of Truc Giang and activity only in one province this turn, VP's pop back up to +39 and EVV is at 59.

The NVA continue to threaten Quang Tri and Thus Thien in the North but for now Border units supported by US and ARVN regulars still hold the important towns.

_____________________________

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Post #: 47
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/15/2018 6:47:52 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 42 and 43

EVV and VP's remain constant at 62 and +35 to the US respectively as frantic artillery and air bombardment just manage to hold the line in Quang Tri where the NVA remain very strong. Five provinces record activity by the VC in turn 42 but only two in turn 43.

A failed proficiency check by Larry allows me to destroy three of the hated VC rocket units which cause mayhem before melting away on most occasions.

The welcome arrival of some Thai troops helps the counter insurgency effort in the Delta.

_____________________________

"I do not agree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it"

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Post #: 48
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/16/2018 8:40:20 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what it looks like at the DMZ right now.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 49
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/17/2018 5:18:13 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 46

An unusually positive turn for the Allies sees VP's pop back up to +33 and EVV at 64 as big losses for the NVA and only two provinces registering VC activity give the South some respite. No VC could be seen so the effort was concentrated against the NVA where the Front line just about held despite repeated assaults by the NVA.

A number of NVA regiments were mauled and importantly three long range artillery units wiped out by the Strategic Bombers and allied artillery. As a bonus a squadron of MiGs also was taken down after interrupting the bombing runs.


All towns remained in ARVN hands.




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Post #: 50
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/19/2018 7:17:35 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		November 1968

VP's = +32 for the Allies
EVV = 66

Remorselessly the EVV continues to rise and will have to be addressed with withdrawals sooner or later.

The VC again keep a low profile but fortunately they only register a single Province of new activity (Phu Ban) so VP's for once tick back up. The NVA remain camped in Quang Tri facing the NARVN and US so I decide enough is enough and move mechanised units around the southern flank and launch a concentrated attack on the line trying to cut them off from supply. This is largely accomplished and several NVA regiments are destroyed or decimated by artillery and air attack.

Larry having a failed proficiency check left a couple of VC rocket units in the field so I was able to take these out in the central coastal areas. The Delts remains fully secure and I have enough troops to reoccupy and territory taken by VC units pretty much but the central provinces are badlands indeed other than the towns and roads in between.


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Post #: 51
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/19/2018 8:18:35 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
It has taken a lot of turns but I've repaired the rail to about the half-way mark so far. There's a lot to go yet of course and Ian has a habit of dropping the rail at bridges so I have to keep repairing them too. I'm hoping this will raise the supply level in the interior of the country as well as along the rails.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 52
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/21/2018 7:39:39 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 50

EVV pops up to 68 and VP's are back at +30 after last turn no less than 6 provinces showed VC activity.

This turn only 2 provinces registered new activity but only a solitary rocketeer unit in the Delta and a Political Unit in the central badlands were visible and able to be assaulted so I occupied myself by knocking out every bridge on the Trail that had been improved to date along with a RR unit. A MiG unit that stuck its nose in got taken out as a bonus.

The NVA in Qung Tri have all crawled back under their stones too.



< Message edited by devoncop -- 9/21/2018 7:40:40 PM >

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Post #: 53
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/24/2018 5:35:48 AM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 51 and 52

EVV over the last 2 turns has increased to 70 and VP's have decreased to +26 with VC activity registering in 6 and 4 provinces respectively causing the VP drop.

To be honest I think this is now a case of seeing how long I can hold out as Larry has developed what seems the ideal strategy in the scenario....namely with the VC just convert as many hexes as you can with your movement as the units spawn and then disband them. This means all the US and ARVN forces can do nothing more than try and move back over the converted hexes as they have nothing to fight. Given the geographic area and the paucity of forces to cover it all (even with US help) the VP total will keep edging the wrong way for the Allies without fighting.

Over the last year not a single VP point city has fallen to the VC but they dont need to take them in my view. Larry is doing a brilliant job marshalling his shadows !

This turn there was heavy bombardment from Cambodia against my ARVN trying to stop border incursions and the Monsoon started again alongside nearly all the Strat Bombers being in reorg !

Not helpful :-)



< Message edited by devoncop -- 9/24/2018 5:36:33 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 54
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/26/2018 3:16:53 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 54

Somewhat ahead of schedule helicopters evacuate all personnel from the US Embassy in Saigon and all troops are ordered to withdraw........the city expects VC occupation at any time.........

In game terms I have offered a full surrender. The VP's were still at +25 and EVV at 71 but the die is cast now Larry has come to the same conclusion as I did when playing the NLF...namely that avoiding fighting is the best way for them to win. When I open the turn not a single NLF or VC unit is visible in Sth Vietnam and action was restricted to VC units converting multiple hexes and then disbanding along with cross border long range artillery strikes.

In my humble opinion this scenario has a few issues with game balance for this reason. To stop mass conversion of hexes so many US units need to be mobilised that the EVV goes through the roof very quickly.

Larry did a great job and has forced the win about 20 turns quicker than I managed but I would be interested to know if anyone has beaten an experienced NLF player to see if I am just being more than usually dense

Thanks to Larry for the game as always. A fine opponent.

_____________________________

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Post #: 55
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/26/2018 6:19:48 PM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Great game guys. Well played on both sides. Between 2 experienced players the NLF is certainly going to have the edge. But they are by no means unbeatable. I have won numerous times as the Allied player. And I rank myself as an average player (Ian beat me twice at one of my other scenarios, "Call to Arms"). But knowing how much force to apply, when to apply it, and for how long is key to victory as the Allies. The Goldilocks effect. Also, the dynamics of the scenario change in the end game, which you guys did not actually reach.

That being said, it has been years since I've played this against a real opponent, and have never played the new version with the new TOAW against an opponent. So I'm not ruling out play balance issues given all these changes. To find out, I will offer a challenge to either of you for another game with me as the Allies. If there still appears to be a problem with play balance then I'll open it back up in the editor and start tweaking things.

So how about it, who's up for another game? FYI, I can't log into the Matrix PBEM server thing, so it will have to via the legacy PBEM system.

Thanks

Curt


_____________________________

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Post #: 56
RE: CSV Ian Allies larry NVA csv_v.1.0.sce - 9/26/2018 6:35:51 PM   
devoncop


Posts: 1304
Joined: 7/17/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Raindem !

That's a kind offer and if I didn't have the tech know-how of an amoeba I would gladly play you but the only reason I play MP is because of the PBEM++ system built into the game as I can't get my pea brain around the old style grog way !

Larry may have space and inclination at some point but I don't know.

Thanks again for the generous offer though and I did have a lot of fun with it so well done !

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Post #: 57
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