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RE: Four Seasons with Models

 
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RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/27/2018 9:05:33 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		FourSeasons-Models-All-Graphics.atzip does not contain such files.

I could do something wrong, I know.
But it's worse.
When used in random game I tried those concept models. There are there, but results from using them are not satisfying.
They cost PP for research, PP for model creations and in the end modeled units are worse than concept ones.

Example: Tankdestoyer concept

cost 4000
armor hp 7500/6000
art/soft 5250/4200
ships 5250/4200
air 4125/3300

Dragon Model 0 core research, mark 1, version 1 with 11 improvements (!!!)
cost 7000
armor hp 7200/6000
art/soft 5040/4200
ships 5040/4200
air 3960/3300

and they shoot the same !

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 211
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/27/2018 10:05:46 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Unfortunately Ormand is gone at the moment, and I am unsure when he comes back... I am sure he will have a solution for you when he gets back :)

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 212
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/28/2018 4:12:06 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Just a quick check in, as I am mostly unavailable until the 8/7. Sorry, I got ahead of myself, and did something a bit stupid. A major upgrade of the Four Seasons system is coming the week of 8/7, and I uploaded the at2 files early. The plan was to get the new graphic files up, which Vic has on the server, but not linked to a scenario, but since it was too close to my departure, I decided to hold off. But I forgot that I uploaded the at2 files in anticipation (and there was no activity). I put back v1.35, rather than 2.0, back on the server. This should have no problems with the graphic files that are there. The week of the 7th I'll be back in force able to do things, and the graphics will largely be updated, and I hope better. I may have an error in the tank destroyer, so I'll check that when I get back.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 213
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 4:50:19 AM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Khanti

It seems this mod have all stuff ATG should have after those years. I'm not very familar with it yet, so just a quick question: Do battleships / cruisers with artillery range ever use those "shore bombardment" option when commanded by AI?
I've always seen in normal ATG or scenarios that AI fleets try to drive (land attack) land units, never causing any damage.


OK, I am mostly back. A small trip this weekend, but I should have connectivity for part of it.

Unfortunately, I have never seen battleships or cruisers do shore bombardment. This was the with AT as well. The AI doesn't do ships that well. It will use them against other ships, but there should also be an "intercept" capability. It is possible to run your ships right past an enemy task force, or aircraft, and do whatever you want. And forget aircraft carriers; the AI doesn't know how to use them.

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 214
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 5:03:26 AM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Khanti

FourSeasons-Models-All-Graphics.atzip does not contain such files.

I could do something wrong, I know.
But it's worse.
When used in random game I tried those concept models. There are there, but results from using them are not satisfying.
They cost PP for research, PP for model creations and in the end modeled units are worse than concept ones.

Example: Tankdestoyer concept

cost 4000
armor hp 7500/6000
art/soft 5250/4200
ships 5250/4200
air 4125/3300

Dragon Model 0 core research, mark 1, version 1 with 11 improvements (!!!)
cost 7000
armor hp 7200/6000
art/soft 5040/4200
ships 5040/4200
air 3960/3300

and they shoot the same !


This was "modeled" after the use of models introduced by Vic in the anewdawn3 scenarios. Basically, the model is randomized about the concept with a spread +/-. Sometimes it is better than the concept, and sometimes it is worse. The differences shouldn't be "huge" but enough to give flavor. I am a bit surprised by the large disparity, I must have done something wrong there. But, some major changes are on the way. Perhaps tomorrow. A complete rework of much of the graphics, and a rework of some of the SFT's. For one, tank destroyers are now an alteration to the tank concepts. They enter only with models. At any rate, Vic should be linking the main graphics file with the scenario on the server (i.e., replacing the previous version). At which point, I'll put up the at2 files.

I am very interested in some feedback, although I understand that demand fo4r GD1938 v3 will make this somewhat overlooked.

The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 215
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 5:25:17 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

I am very interested in some feedback, although I understand that demand fo4r GD1938 v3 will make this somewhat overlooked.


Sorry about that :(

quote:


The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.


Wouldn't it be better to set them to -1. The result would be the same, but it would be much easier, at least to me, to see what can be researched and what cannot. Also this way you could use the modify cost function in the setng for bigger or smaller maps/regimes, this way....

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Post #: 216
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 2:49:57 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:


The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.


Wouldn't it be better to set them to -1. The result would be the same, but it would be much easier, at least to me, to see what can be researched and what cannot. Also this way you could use the modify cost function in the setng for bigger or smaller maps/regimes, this way....


I hadn't thought of using -1. Doesn't matter too much as the price has to be set at the beginning of each Human player turn (otherwise the AI can't build them). But, it a "-1" is perhaps a bit more obvious in the list of items that can be built.

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 217
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:23:11 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		OK, Four Seasons v 2.0.0 is live. As before, there are two parts. The main graphics files, which are on the server at

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=259

and the at2 files, which are at

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=260

The "graphics patch" is no longer needed. But, the Generals Project is, which can be found at:

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=270

This started as an attempt to balance out air/sea/land units, and evolved into a major upgrade. I updated most of the map graphics (they are similar but improved), added new terrains for scenarios, added terrain graphics for game screen, tweaked SFT's (tried to balance air/land/sea better and made the levels more uniform), and linked to the "Generals Project". The system is still set up for random games with several "variant options" during play.

Changed Graphics:

1. Low Mountains. The edges are more realistic and have been eroded. High Mountains are the same. These were mostly intended to be used next to low mountains.

2. Forested Mountains. Along with the new edges, some errors that had spillover were fixed.

3. Light Forest/Woods. These are now more sparse and more distinguishable from the forests.

4. Fields and Bocage. I tightened up the fields and scale is better.

5. Capital/Urban/Suburban: I made these flow a bit better with the interior graphics so that it filled the hex better. Capitals have a symbol to help you locate them.

6. Mountains no longer overlap urban-like hexes. So that mountain villages make sense now.

7. Improved the beach hexes so that the beach actually follows the coast. I admit that beach hexes in winter are hard to distinguish, and perhaps this can be improved.

8. Made the difference between arid and sand dunes a bit more discernible.

9. Made new graphics for fortifications.

10. Changed the railroad and road system. It is more like the alt graphics. Rails and roads are in the same hex. The rail bed is removed from the tracks.

New terrains:

1. a canal river. This is a river, but has straight edges to denote a canal. I didn't want to use the minor river for this.

2. Wadi/Arroyo. For arid scenarios.

3. Canyon. Normal and desert.

4. Fjord/Estuary. A larger river-like object that connects well to the sea. Can be used to model fjords or an estuary.

5. Sea Canal. This is a "sea" hex that looks like a canal. In ATG we have either sea or land, ships can't use rivers, etc. So, this is meant to model a canal without having to plop down a sea passage. That means land units can't enter the hex. This is fixed by using "ports" that can connect to the canal, which will allow both land and sea units to pass through, and allow bridges.

Units:

I tweaked strengths and consolidated some of the models for them to make more sense.

But, artillery is back. They have a range of two hexes, and can be used as usual. This isn't that realistic for a 15 mi/hex game, but it seemed that it was just better to do with the engine as it is.

[edit]

I forgot some stuff:

Roads:

1. Added a narrow gauge rail, so there are two types of rail that can be used, with different movements. These movement type are set by rulevars 0, 2, 99, 32. The type of rail movement used by each regime is kept track of in regimevar 24. There is a scenario variant to use random rail types, and these are set for each regime at the start of each regime's turn.

Variants for random games:

1. Start with Diplomatic Block: Game starts with diplomatic block that ends pseudo-randomly.

2. Use Models Only: Human players must use models. Standard items cannot be produced.

3. Limit AI Factories: Slows down the AI factory building as the AI builds factories.

4. No Factories: Building factories is not allowed.

5. Weather with Storms: Storms occur randomly affecting air operations.

6. Build Only Roads: Cannot build railroads, just standard roads.

7. Random Rail Type: Regime has 50-50 chance for wide gauge or narrow gauge rail. For 2 regimes, they have the opposite.

8. Five Day Turns: Standard is 14 days, this is an attempt to make shorter turns.


< Message edited by Ormand -- 8/7/2018 3:53:28 PM >

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 218
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:36:34 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Some images from a derivative project that is coming along:

France:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 219
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:37:11 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Libyan desert:






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Post #: 220
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:37:38 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		The Alps:






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Post #: 221
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:38:14 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Norway:






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Post #: 222
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:38:45 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Southern Turkey:






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Post #: 223
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:39:13 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		The Kiel Canal.






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Post #: 224
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 8/7/2018 3:40:39 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Lenningrad.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 225
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/16/2018 2:13:23 AM   
E6Russell

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/16/2018
Status: offline 		When I start a random Game using either US, European, or Southern when It is putting thousands of troops (ie: 3,750 Staff in Supreme HQ, 5,400 Rifle and 1440 machine guns in an infantry unit etc) in the initial units (Garrison, extra units at SHQ etc)

I have tried this with many different map sizes and numbers of countries.

Is it set up to give you this many SFT's in a unit?

Is there a setting that im not seeing that is ramping up the numbers?

Oh, and how do I upload a picture?



< Message edited by E6Russell -- 9/16/2018 3:07:13 PM >

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Post #: 226
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/17/2018 2:26:02 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Sorry, I didn't see this post. I was away last week for last-minute travel.

For the "large" numbers, this mod is using the Ratio feature in the editor of the SFT's. A Rifle SFT represents an infantry company with approximately 200 men. A tank SFT is a tank company with 15 tanks. This was introduced by Vic and is similar to the DC series. Unfortunately, the way to turn it off is to manually set all the Ratio's to 1. I agree it takes some getting used to. You can find the ratio you click on the SFT in the unit window, this brings up an information dialog, click on "General Stats" and it will be at the bottom of the left-hand column. When you use the TOE system, you will see the actual number of SFT's in the units as you design them. Also, when you open the transfer dialog from an HQ you will see the actual number of SFT's.

Thanks for downloading. Also, you should also be sure to have downloaded version 2.0.1 that I posted a few weeks ago. This fixed a major stupidity of mine: I relied on the make .atzip file in the editor, and forgot that I had several SFT pictures in events for models that included. Other improvements/changes are on the way, as well as a scenario.

(in reply to E6Russell)
Post #: 227
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/17/2018 2:33:48 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		To upload a picture click on the blue "Click here to upload!" tex right below the text box in the reply dialog. This will bring up a dialog to upload a picture. Choose browse and find your picture, select it and click "OK" to upload it. It has to be a gtif or a jpg and < 500 kB. To have it embedded in the post be sure to check the box next to it.

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Post #: 228
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/17/2018 10:38:05 PM   
E6Russell

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/16/2018
Status: offline 		Hope your travels went well.

Thanks for the response. I think I will try to get the large numbers back down to the smaller ones we were used to. My son (13yo) seems to have a difficult time with the big numbers.

It is a blast now having my son play against me via email. As you can imagine there is a LOT of Smack talk back and forth and lots of emotions when turns are opened or battles take place.


I now see the embed picture. It doesnt show up in the fast reply.

Here are some modifications that I have made or am trying to make.

1. I have made quite a few changes that happen with Event #1.

I have VP' assigned to Capitol, Cities, Towns, All Factories, Ports, Fields etc, and to the (2) hexes on each side of a bridge. This is an attempt to force the AI to go more for strategic items and choke holds such as bridges.

I also have changed the terrain around to my liking such as changing 75% of fields to plains, %75 of swamps to heavy forest etc.

I have also changed air, storm movement. It allows Air to operate, fly from, into and thru storm at a hefty movement penalty. It allows for limited operations.

I also want to create more sft's and change some. (Maybe Models)

Airborne Staff
Airborne Heavy Weapons or (MG, Bazooka, Mortar)
Marine Staff
Marine Heavy weapons, or (MG, Bazooka, Mortar)
etc,

I also have added many more item groups to break the sft's down into more categories.

Light Naval, Heavy Naval, Light Arty, Heavy Arty, Infantry, Marines, Airborne, SF etc.

This is because I limit the items that can be produced at certain locations. No Cities can produce any of the "Heavy" items, a specific "Heavy Tank, Aircraft etc) factory has to be built to produce these. (The exception is the Capitol which can produce all except specialty items such as Airborne, Marines et)

You have to build a Specific Marine Base on a Beach, An Airborne Base in Plains, Staff Colleges, Mt Training Base in Mts etc.

I use Capitols, Major Cities (City) and Minor Cities (Town( Each is limited in what they can produce forcing the player to build factories.

I am also wanting to get rid of urban, suburban terrain (Which is easy to get rid of them all) but am working on having the computer to place Suburban terrain (along with a VP)at maybe %55-%60 percent of road junctions and maybe %20-%25 of those would change to Urban.

Also am working on getting rid of most Fields and Bocages in the "Wild Areas" and having the computer place maybe %75 or so of fields on any hex that has roads on a plain. I just find that more pleasing to my eye.

With all the changes I am trying to make this is the biggest. I want the to have a Human SFT and a Computer SFT. Human Locations and Computer Locations. Human players would be limited to Heavy Naval, Air, Specialty Factories and bases etc. The AI however will have a hard time doing this. So, when the ai takes over a Location such as a city it will replace the Human City with the limitations for a Regular Computer Uses City with no restrictions. If it captures a Heavy or Light Factory Human Factory it will be replaced with a Normal Computer Factory that can produce all Air, or tanks or Guns (the AI will nor differentiate between Heavy or light or Marine vs Airborne etc)

Oh I also had on another computer (Which I lost and cant get the files off of) My own card system

At the beginning of your first turn only you were issued a card to remove all units from your territory. You are given combined points for everything "Turned" in. Then you could purchase and place with the card system units, factories, bases, fortifications etc.



Any way I hope those make sense,

Those are just ideas from me, and thanks for all the work you and all the other real modders have done! I just play around at it











(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 229
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/20/2018 5:00:33 AM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		It sounds like you have done much more than play around! You have gone into the system a bit to make several changes.

I can only imagine the smack that you are getting.

Work keeps getting in the way of doing more stuff, and looks to be a problem for the next few weeks.

As for para-staff. I don't think it is possible to para-drop an HQ, so it doesn't matter if you make them droppable or not. Accept for a "cheat" which would be to drop them in another unit, create an HQ and transfer the unit to the HQ. The problem is the readiness loss for changing the HQ. Which, if you want, you can reduce or eliminate with rulevar 48.

There is also not much reason to make "marine" staff. They can't really affect amphibious landings. Unfortunately, this is controlled through rulevar 100 and is global/universal. This is why I created a "beach" hex. First of all, this isn't a bad idea for controlling where landings can occur, but I also used to give marines a combat bonus on beach hexes that partially offsets the amphibious landing penalty.

I like your ideas of adding VP. This is a bit hard to automate though. Although, I suppose one could do it somewhat smartly.

I have also been thinking of the factory/model thing. That a factory is generally geared to make something specific and it is not that easy to just retool to a new piece of equipment. I am not sure how to do this though. There are also two issues in the design phase. One is for human players, and the other is the AI. It will not do some things, like shore bombardment or use aircraft carriers.

Another thing I am also looking at is exploitation. Mobile warfare was new to WW II and it had some spectacular results. Making a scenario to have Poland and France fall as quickly as they did is not that trivial.

Well, back to work on my mods before I have to call it quits.

(in reply to E6Russell)
Post #: 230
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 9/22/2018 11:53:45 AM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline 		I am pleased to see this mod is still taken care of :)

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 231
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/27/2019 3:00:15 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Ormand: Many thanks for the effort in putting this mod together. I'm enjoying it a lot.

I'm stymied on Heavy Weapons I. The tech doesn't show any precursors in the description and it is still not available after I have Mortar, MG and Bazooka (the last one just in case). On the model page there's nothing remotely similar to Heavy Weapons-related models. Not a huge thing but I'm wondering how I can get Heavy Weapons going. That would simplify things.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

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Post #: 232
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/27/2019 6:29:04 AM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Actually, Heavy Weapons was a "replacement" tech for machineguns and mortars with division level units. At the time, I was thinking of having on a 15 mile/hex grid. With this, technically, artillery should have a range of just one hex. So, I thought of integrating artillery into the divisional units. This meant that the 8 SFType limit was going to cause trouble and I thought of combining machineguns and mortars into a single SFType. In the end, artillery with a 1 hex range is not a great idea, especially with AI. One problem is that it takes away a design aspect of ATG where artillery causes a loss in readiness. In addition, I have found that the AI doesn't deal with regimental artillery units with a range of one hex very well. It seems to treat it as a regular unit, engaging in land combat, rather than as artillery. So, I backtracked and went back to machineguns and mortars. I thought that I made the tech hidden, but obviously not. So, it has some confusion. I confess that I did not delete it because I wasn't sure if this would a permanent change, and wanted an option in the future (OK, I was lazy and didn't want to have to put it back in).

I am glad to see that you like it. I have not abandoned this. I have been working on it quite a bit, and fixed several things that you have probably noticed, and I am reworking SFTypes and the models to make them more realistic. In addition, a few other AI tweaks. With luck, a beta will be available in a week or two. I will need a little feedback then, for several aspects, like cost of models and upgrades. Actually, improvements, as direct upgrades will not be available from Level N to Level N+1. Instead, tank models will have "improvements" to their gun, and some other tweaks to armor. The same will be true for aircraft as well. I am also integrating a different naming system based on a model number; the nicknames don't go away, just used differently.

It will need whatever the latest ATG version there is. Sorry, this mod pushes the limits on models.

Give me another two weeks or so, and I will push it out the door.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 233
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/27/2019 7:20:02 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

OK, I was lazy and didn't want to have to put it back in


The truth comes out!

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Post #: 234
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/27/2019 8:10:27 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Thanks a lot for the explanation. Very quick response. I'm fairly new to this game, but will certainly do what I can to offer feedback on your next iteration. I'm on a break from my usual WITP-AE play.

One reason I was hoping to use heavy weapons is the light armored division has all eight slots filled, and as Light Tank I's start dying, there's no place to put replacement "Panther" light tank models (Germanic country) and Light Tank I's can't be upgraded to Panthers (at least I haven't figured out how). To me, for ease of adding replacements, it seems best for divisions to use only seven of the eight slots. For instance, if you do not have enough supply to upgrade your Rifle I's in the division, you'll need an empty slot to add fresh Rifle II's.

Cheers,
CB

< Message edited by CaptBeefheart -- 3/27/2019 8:40:25 AM >

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Post #: 235
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/27/2019 2:54:17 PM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for playing!

Yes, upgrading can lead to that problem. You kind of have to try and do them all at once, which means storing up supplies for a big conversion.

I thought that I had all the SFTypes based models so that they upgraded to the next one that it converted to. Note, not the model themselves, but the SFTypes, much like the Rifle I to Rifle II. So, Panther I to Panther 1A to Panther II. On the other hand, those original Light Tank I I give you can't be upgraded at all if you play with the "Models Only" option. They were meant to help get the war started and represented some equipment that your regime purchased before the trouble started. Same for the fighters. Now I can't remember if I give that many Light Tanks I in that version or not. I have expanded that a bit, as I said to get things started. I could make this a variant.

At any rate, I am trying to make sure that the SFTypes can be upgraded. In the new version, when I get it finished, the stream will be PzKpfw V to PzKpfw V B to PzKpfw V C, etc. The model will never upgrade to PzKpfw VI. (Had to correct myself here). The SFTypes, however, will upgrade to the next level for the same type, i.e., Medium Tank I to Medium Tank II. When you create a new model at a higher level, I go through the models and point them to this model. It is not quite right, but I have to work with what I have.

< Message edited by Ormand -- 3/27/2019 3:09:33 PM >

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 236
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 3/28/2019 4:47:16 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		I have no problem at all upgrading Panther A to Panther B. However, I can't seem to upgrade Fighter I models (Steinlager?) to Fighter II models (Falke). Will try again this evening to make sure it wasn't a lack-of-supply issue.

I wouldn't sweat the original Light Tank I's you have starting the game in Lt. Armored Divisions. I booted the mortar to allow space for Panther replacements.

Look forward to your next iteration.

Cheers,
CB

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Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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Post #: 237
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 4/1/2019 6:08:48 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Hello Ormand: Just seeing how this is going. I did confirm that there's no upgrading between models of different names (i.e. Steinadler to Falke).

Also, I wonder about the AI. In the game set up, do you know what effect AI+ and AI++ have? I am at the point where I need to give the AI a boost to make this a challenge.

Looking forward to your update.

Cheers,
CB

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Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 238
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 4/2/2019 4:23:16 AM   
Ormand


Posts: 682
Joined: 2/17/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Captain,

Overall, things are progressing. I have run into a few issues (more later) but, I have worked through the tank models, and I am working on the aircraft models now. I can see that historically these are a bit different, but I will go forward with the general idea. Thus far, the tank models are satisfactory.

There are a few snags, which I am in communication with Vic, and we'll see. They aren't complete showstoppers I am also probably being a bit more complicated. The one problem has to do renaming, which doesn't seem to work quite right within the event that is called to create the model. I could be doing it all wrong, but. So, this could change my plans to have a different naming system. Another is a change that I think would make the model process a bit more flexible, but is likely harder to implement and could have issues with backwards comparability. It would be nice, but 100% essential as of now. It would leave a slight issue with obsolete concepts still being available, but there is also a workaround for that, it is just a little clunky.

At any rate, most of the coding should be done fairly soon, and I have built the subroutines to be adaptable to some possible changes.

I don't think I ever had a capability to upgrade between model families. It should work that if you upgraded or improved a model the previous model will upgrade to that model. The new version will be a bit different in that models will not be upgradeable from Level N to Level N+1. However, when you make a new model of the same type, say Medium Tank, the newest instance will be set to upgrade for the latest model with Level N-1. By, this I mean the model itself isn't upgraded, but you can upgrade the subformations in a unit. That looks to be working, but will need some testing.

As for AI+ and AI++, what happens is that the AI gets big production bonuses, so it will produce lots of equipment and push you hard that way. I haven't looked at just how big the bonuses are, nor have I looked at how to control them. That said, something like this could be a way to make things more competitive.

I have been thinking about the AI quite a bit, and I am not sure if it is something more particular to my mod since the unit structures are a bit different, and the overall code might prefer something different (basically, I am thinking of the basic subformations as companies for all unit types). The AI situation is a bit complicated and depends on a few factors. One might also be if you use the Diplomatic block, which allows you to get set up and form a line. This is harder for the AI, as it doesn't quite know what to do with it. But, unless I miss my mark, what you are probably experiencing is the AI suffering losses of the order 2-2.5:1 (maybe even 3:1). After awhile, these losses add up, and the AI is effectively crippled. These losses largely come from attacks on defensive positions at modest odds. The fact that the AI makes these attacks might also be because I make it fairly aggressive to start a game. After suffering these losses, the AI also is bringing up troops, but they tend to be fairly low in readiness since they are being transferred, etc. I was experimenting, and when I get done with the mod rework get back to, some changes that will help the AI somewhat. One might well be not to use the diplomatic block, and let the AI get its shot at you. But, the others are some changes to stack limits and concentric bonuses to give the AI a little edge to reduce its losses. I am looking at some very simple things, like giving the AI the chance to use three full units from two hexes to attack before overstacking penalties (instead of two) and small bonus for attacks from two hexes. These are probably the most likely types of attacks. The other is to reduce the readiness loss for reassignments and transfers for the AI. I also want to try to code up some "objectives" for the AI. That is try to determine a location for it to target and make that a focus. It will be random, so you won't know.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 239
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 4/3/2019 6:15:01 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update.

Good luck with the AI. I found a two infantry division per hex defensive line at a 4-hex choke point is impervious to AI attacks. The AI seems to do single-hex attacks (at least that's what it looks like in the replay--I could be wrong). Anyway, even if the AI does a proper breakthrough it tends to set itself up for an encirclement on the next turn.

The AI also really likes MG subformations for some reason. I guess that's not bad for defense, but horrible on offense.

None of these are complaints, just observations. I like messing with OOBs and the production and logistics aspects of the game. It's good fun.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 240
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