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custom German OOB - 6/14/2001 12:36:00 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Hi folks ! Anybody downloaded the custom made German OOB on Tankheads site ? I would like to get some feedback on it, to see which features you like and the ones you don't. Did anyone playtest it (PBEM,vs AI or campaign )? I'm planning to collect some good ideas and suggestions for improvement, to make a update of it. So let me know, what you think! :confused:

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Mir nach, ich folge euch !

Post #: 1

- 6/14/2001 2:45:00 AM

Larry Holt

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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I've not tried Tankhead's OOBs and this is a little off subject, but I'm making a change in mine to add in German tank killer teams. I am going to add in three man teams armed with molotovs and/or mines. My research shows that these were the primary German infantry means of antitank defense on the Eastern Front. There, the German strengths were streached so thin & ATGs so weak that the guns had to be in the rear areas to provide defense in depth and take side and rear shots at Soviet tanks as they went by. The tanks were pulled for a counter attack/fire brigade role. The infantry units dug trenches to move up to Soviet tanks that might try and overrun their defenses. Specially trained teams were employed to use expedient anti tank means.

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Post #: 2

- 6/14/2001 4:08:00 AM

Panzer Leo

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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Yep, you're right. I was missing them in the regular OOB. They are called Panzerjaeger and I put them into the OOB. They are using a mix of AT-mines (Tellerminen) stick-bombs (Hafthohlladung) or improvised AT-material (like the molotovs you mentioned) until Panzerfaust gets common.

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Post #: 3

- 6/14/2001 8:11:00 AM

Alby

Posts: 4855
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From: Greenwood, Indiana
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Ive downloaded them,And looked at them, but have some current PBEM games going and cant use them just yet. They look an awful lot like SPWW2 oobs. The sounds harken back to sp3. Have however installed the new SHP files. great looking panthers, jads and Kings, Havn't seen evrything yet Im sure. But good job. :) [ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: Alby ]

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Post #: 4

- 6/15/2001 12:46:00 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
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Hi joerg (?), I already downloaded and investigated your new OOB stuff with editors but didn�t install them yet for sake of compatibility with my current scenario) works, but I must confess that I wished your german OOB would be the official one. Very accurate and much flavour! :) Especially the Falschirmjagers are well done as we know the original OOB file is a bit faulty here. :( Also replacement for the sandbag entrenchments is much better looking. (Actually I just use this shape file from your collection right now) Will try your complete stuff on another installment of SPWAW later. What about listing ALL files to be replaced in the SPWAW directories in a separate Text file? Helps to keep track of needed backup of original files! _________ Harry

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Post #: 5

- 6/15/2001 2:05:00 AM

Panzer Leo

Posts: 526
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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Here's your requested list: SHPs: icon0000 the gray Tiger I icon0010 } icon0011 } Infantry head-count icon0012 } from "Warhorse" icon0013 } icon0014 mines and entrenchment icon0016 actually no effect(abandoned project-just forgot to eleminate) icon0200 Panther (G) / Jagdpanther icon0201 JPz IV / Tiger II icon0204 see icon0016 (sh#* !) icon0240 Panther (D) / JPz IV icon0243 Panther (A) icon0244 some Sdkfz Flak icon0246 FlakPz I Snds: 716-718 Bombs (718 with siren) 801-803 Karabiner 43 804-806 MP 38/40 807-809 FJGewehr 42 OOBs: 70 Germany 86 Norway Pics: many, but shouldn't replace anything important (I hope) ! Have fun :D

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Post #: 6

- 6/15/2001 10:35:00 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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I booted them and all my books indicate these are very accurate!..larger missing formations are the "fusilier" groups and the Luftwaffe infantry..Thank you...

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Post #: 7

- 6/15/2001 3:28:00 PM

Panzer Leo

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From: Braunschweig/Germany
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Fuesilier formations is a good thought. They could easily be made up of existing units by gathering them in a formation. I will keep this in mind :) The Luftwaffe Feldeinheiten were left out intentionally, 'cause they would need their own unit(s) (and slots are precious, as you know) and they only appeared in relevant numbers in 42/43 (if my mind doesn't let me down on this). So I think the FJs gotta represent the Luftwaffe on the ground :D

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Post #: 8

- 6/16/2001 9:56:00 AM

m10bob

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Panzer Leo!..If you want to interview some "alte shirmfalljager soldaten",go to Frankfurt am Main to the bar on the east side of the strett approx 80 yards south of the intersection of Eschersheimmer landstrasse and "8&40"...It's owned by a vet of everything from Crete on,and lots of his friends hang out there......bob

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Post #: 9

- 6/17/2001 1:59:00 AM

Panzer Leo

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I assume you spent some time at the U.S airbase in Frankfurt :D When I worked in the U.S. I met a lot of guys who were there for a couple of years. Never realized how many went through there. Almost looks like every second U.S. citizen had to be in Frankfurt :D I will keep the old Fallschirmjaeger in mind, when I pay Frankfurt a visit...thanks

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Post #: 10

- 6/17/2001 2:35:00 AM

Warhorse

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SHPs: icon0000 the gray Tiger I icon0010 } icon0011 } Infantry head-count icon0012 } from "Warhorse" icon0013 } icon0014 mines and entrenchment icon0016 actually no effect(abandoned project-just forgot to eleminate) icon0200 Panther (G) / Jagdpanther icon0201 JPz IV / Tiger II icon0204 see icon0016 (sh#* !) icon0240 Panther (D) / JPz IV icon0243 Panther (A) icon0244 some Sdkfz Flak icon0246 FlakPz I Panzer Leo, There was already a grey Tiger, sorry it was undocumented, but it is the one in the Czech oob! Also, you need to send the 'mirror' shp files also, such as; icon0100.shp icon0300.shp icon0301.shp icon0240.shp icon0343.shp icon0344.shp icon0346.shp This is because if you would happen to do a battle with opposing forces that used the old 'tan' ie 0100, and 0300 series shp files, you would have whatever old icon resides in the above!! I usually just make a copy of the one you are editing, put it in another folder, rename to number 100 higher than what you are doing, then replace.

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Post #: 11

- 6/17/2001 3:02:00 AM

Panzer Leo

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Thanks Warhorse ! Will make the mirror ones and send them over to Tankhead. Damn, just when you think you got a slight idea how it works, you notice it's only the begining of another lesson :D

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Post #: 12

- 6/17/2001 7:05:00 AM

Warhorse

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Panzer Leo,LOL, isn't that just the way??!!! No problem pal, I read your post a few times the other day, but didn't dawn on me till today that you didn't have the mirrors in there, so don't feel bad ;) Any questions about shps, or just wanna discuss about them, feel free to E-mail me, hell, you might know a few things I don't even, ya know?!! I will try to DL your stuff and check it out, sounds entrigueing, I altered mine too, added the alphabetical armored car formations and such, ie, A, B, etc.

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Post #: 13

- 6/17/2001 4:01:00 PM

Panzer Leo

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If you think, there's something important missing, Warhorse, just send me a note, I'm making a list of improvement ideas...or you can send me your changed OOB...maybe you had some ideas I didn't came up with :rolleyes: As it goes for anyone who downloaded the files the last days and is now worrieng about the shp-thing :eek: No, problem ! I checked it out and there will be no harm to gameplay. As I only worked on existing shps the only thing that can happen is: under special conditions (Germany-Germany game e.g.) the display shows the regular icon from Matrix, not mine...so nothing scary :D

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Post #: 14

- 6/21/2001 7:19:00 PM

Patris

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Great job with the German OOB, really! In particular I've appreciated the idea of the infantry platoon HQ in a separate slot, it makes much more realistic the deployment of the platoon: It would be nice extend this modify to all infantry platoons in the game. Only an observation: I use often the 50mm light mortar as platoon support in the early years, but in the editor I've not found it. It's a deliberate exclusion or simply an error?

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Post #: 15

- 6/21/2001 7:31:00 PM

Larry Holt

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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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quote:

Originally posted by Fabio: Great job with the German OOB, really! In particular I've appreciated the idea of the infantry platoon HQ in a separate slot, it makes much more realistic the deployment of the platoon: It would be nice extend this modify to all infantry platoons in the game. ...

I have read that the German halftrack with the 37mm gun (the -10 version IIRC) was developed to give the platoon leader some additional firepower but as it is now, the platoon leader (the + unit) can not fit in the -10. Having a seperate leader would allow this and more generically, allow the leader to be close behind his platoon to rally it without being exposed to direct fire.

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Post #: 16

- 6/22/2001 1:05:00 AM

Panzer Leo

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Thanks, guys ! The thing with the 50mm mortar - I simply put in the wrong unit type :rolleyes: If you change the type of the 50mm to "Mortar" instead of "light Mortar" in the OOB editor, it will show up in the purchase... The other problem with the Plt HQ in the support halftrack shouldn't be one, Larry. Your absolutely right about the use of this type and all support HT (not only the SPW 251/10) have a carry of 5 - just enough for the PLt HQ ;)

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Post #: 17

- 6/22/2001 5:23:00 AM

RockinHarry

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What about adding "special forces" class to german "Gebirgsj�ger" (mountain troops) instead of "ski troops", so they can climb on cliffs? Also "elite" flag would be apropriate. _________ Harry

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Post #: 18

- 6/22/2001 6:08:00 PM

Panzer Leo

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Making them special forces would give the Gebirgsjaeger some features, I think they shouldn't have (intrude in the rear). They were not trained and used in this manner. So the fast movement in snow is as close as you can get with a unit type in the editor. Well, the elite thing: aren't they ? They should get the bonus, when you purchase them. The later Gebirgsjaeger also have a small advantage in range finder (1), due to their experience in long range combat in the mountains and the extra rangefinders they were equiped with. Unless there is a class of "mountain troops", there's not much to do about the cliff climbing :)

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Post #: 19

- 7/17/2001 5:27:00 PM

pbhawkin1

Posts: 158
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From: Mudgee, Australia
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hi all, now that SPWAW is V6.1, how (if at all) will the replacement German OOB affect the scenarios and megaCampaign?

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Post #: 20

- 7/17/2001 6:46:00 PM

Panzer Leo

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It will not have any specific problems with v6.1, as this was only a change in the mech.exe (battle routines, e.g.), not in the OOBs. The existing problems with scenarios will remain. Problems with scenarios occur, when a unit was changed to a different type in the custom OOB. This might be a MG displaying as normal infantry or Minenraeumpanzer III not being there at all. To avoid these problems, when playing scenarios with German troops involved, best is to load the scenario in the editor and check the German troops, if they're correct. In case you spot a unit that looks wrong, simply use the "change unit to different type" button and change it to the type it should be (if you don't want to peek at a scenario before playing it, ask a friend to check it). I cannot say much about the MC. There should be the same problems with it like with the scenarios. Because it is a preset campaign and the forces are based on the original OOB, it's best to stick with that one for the MC. Maybe someone has already tried to play it with the custom OOB and can tell you more... hope, that helps...

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Post #: 21

- 7/17/2001 8:11:00 PM

Mai Thai

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To Panzer Leo I downloaded your edited OOB and found it very good and playing with it in a dedicated installation of spwaw. I'm sorry that in another post i didn't recognize you as the author of this greatfull OOB. I'm playing a long generated campaign and until now i'm satisfied with your changes, not only OOB but also pics and sounds. Having read other post on this subject i have nothing more to say than hoping you will keep on your precious job. Thanks a lot. (Vielen Dank) Bye

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Post #: 22

- 7/17/2001 8:26:00 PM

Paul Vebber

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Note that changing 50mm mortars to "mortar" class from "lt mortar" gives them significant added capability. "Lt mortar" class can only be directed by teh platoon x0, as mortars they are on the "battle net" and can be targeted by anyone...since they typically did not have a radio operator this is a great advantage...

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Post #: 23

- 7/17/2001 10:21:00 PM

Panzer Leo

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Thanks, Mai Thai ! Good comment, Paul - I will include it in my debugged version ! Then there will be a 50mm as lt Mortar, as it's supposed to be... I simply overlooked the little fellow in the first... :rolleyes:

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Post #: 24

- 7/17/2001 10:29:00 PM

Paul Vebber

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Actually this "feature" seems to have bitten the dust - all mortars work the same now... Good work!

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Post #: 25

- 7/18/2001 3:54:00 AM

RockinHarry

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quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Leo: Making them special forces would give the Gebirgsjaeger some features, I think they shouldn't have (intrude in the rear). They were not trained and used in this manner. ... Unless there is a class of "mountain troops", there's not much to do about the cliff climbing :)

Right,..the "special forces" ability is meant for cliff climbing only of course and it�s left to the player NOT to use them to infiltrate. Well,...I�m just preparing a Caucasus 1942 scenario, where just this cliff climbing ability is needed. Map has steep mountainous terrain with up to ten levels/slopes. (Similar to SP2WW2). Don�t think it�s possible? Wait... And...ski units are only useful, if you have "snow" on your map. Otherwise you can simply use renamed infantry (SS for elite). _________ Harry

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Post #: 26

- 7/18/2001 5:47:00 AM

gators

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I've posted about Gebirgsjager before, and got very few responses. I sincerely think its a genuine oversight that they're not included. That and spotter planes are two features I hope CL will surely have.

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Post #: 27

- 7/18/2001 7:41:00 AM

Paul Vebber

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Sorry but spotter planes do NOT belong in a tactical game...How on earth do they communicate with a tank to tell it to shoot at some tank somewhere??? REAL spotter planes were used to spot operational heavy arty fires behind the lines and operational planning. To use them like some sattelite in Patriot Games is one of the gameyest abuses ever!

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Post #: 28

- 7/18/2001 8:26:00 AM

Panzer Leo

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Yep, agree with the spotters shouldn't be in there...I must confess, I used them back in the old days of SPWW2 quite often and it was really fun, but when thinking of the realism, my stomach turns... The thing with the Gebirgsjaeger is really a problem. When you make them special forces, they will be a cheap variation of the Spaeh/Sabot grp. If you make them cost the same, they're to expensive to use as normal fighting force, but they actually were one. As I said before, the only thing that really helps is say: please,please,please Paul, give us the mountain infantry type with cliff climbing, but no infiltration :D :D :D

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Post #: 29

- 7/18/2001 10:36:00 AM

rich12545

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After reading this forum, I downloaded your oob. Then read the comments. I pretty much just play scenarios, not campaigns. Does that mean I would be wise not to use this?

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Post #: 30