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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan

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R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/17/2018 11:40:16 PM

Enforcer

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From: New Smyrna Beach, Fla
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What do the Japanese plays do with your R&D factories at the beginning of the game? I am just unsure what to do... I am an aggressive player and usually play GC #2

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated

< Message edited by Enforcer -- 9/18/2018 1:42:42 AM >

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/18/2018 1:07:58 PM

Uncivil Engineer

Posts: 1014
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From: Florida, USA
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I'm not the most experienced player, nor one of the acknowledged "experts", but I've been interested in this topic as well, so here are my thoughts:

Many of the initial R&D aircraft you will likely never see, nor want. For example, Fukuoka starts with (0/11) (Scenario 1) Q1W1 Lorna. Do you want or need this? I don't. Also, Okayama starts with (0/5) G4M1-L Betty. L2D2 Tabby has much better payload and arrives 3 months earlier, but has shorter range. Any Mavis or Emily has better payload and range, but require 4 engines. You choose. These are 2 examples of R&D I change on day 1.

So, what do these (any several others) get changed to? Pick among these: Rufe, A6M3 Zero, A6M3a Zero, A6M5 Zero, D4Y1 Judy, D4Y3 Judy, Frank, George, Tojo, Tony (several to choose from), Helen, Peggy (several).

Some other changes and why:

Tokyo - (0/6) Ki-54c Hickory - small load and short range
Hiroshima - (0/1) D4Y2 Judy - same characteristics as D4Y1; D4Y3 carries bigger bomb, D4Y4 even bigger bomb
Yokohama - (0/2) Myoko - same bomb as D4Y4 Judy, but not CV capable
Okayama - (0/2) G4M2 Betty - there is also a (0/8) at Okayama for this aircraft, how many do you need?
Okayama - (0/1) G4M2e Betty - Okha variant also R&D'd at Tsu, how many do you need?
Yokohama - (0/13) J2M5 Jack - not CV capable, not much improvement on A6M3 Zero and SR 3
Hamamatsu - (0/4) Ki-100-II Tony - why not Ki-100-I Tony instead, which is a better aircraft and arrives sooner
Kobe - (0/2) Ki-45 KAIb Nick - no better than the Nick a, so R&D a second Nick a, or something else

That's my opinion. There are many others that can also be changed, but are more dependent on your style of play.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/18/2018 3:11:55 PM

Enforcer

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From: New Smyrna Beach, Fla
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Thanks for the input.. I hope more ppl can comment!

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/18/2018 7:57:26 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
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Some recent threads
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4313954 Understandings rd factories
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4354969 Japanese Air Production Plans

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/19/2018 5:09:28 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Here's an example of mine...

quote:

Been wanting to put this together for a while, with some comments.

Model (pool) - comments

A6M3a (67) - still producing as I still desire a longer range IJN escort plane for Bettys/Frances. Once my perimeter contracts more, so that I am not launching strikes at ranges >10 or so, I will cut this off.

A6M5c (137) - have actually moved the size 45 factory to A6M8. Still producing a few here as the range on the A6M8 is a little underwhelming, and I may decide to keep some units in KB with A6M5c for escort duties. The A6M5c also has that one extra gun...

A6M8 (27) - just came online in the last couple of weeks. Have only upgraded Katsuragi-1 so far.

B6N2 (118) - primary ASW/search/KB strike craft.

C5M2 (14) - awaiting Myrt

D4Y2 (261) - D4Y3 will start producing tomorrow, which will give me a DB that can range out to 8. I am thinking that I will still produce the D4Y2 until I run low on Aichi Ha-60, of which there are currently 367 in the pool. The only other plane that will use those will be the Judy night fighter, which I may not produce in numbers. The D4Y2, along with what few leftover D4Y1 I have, will be a kamikaze aircraft.

E13A1 (40) - my most commonly lost airframe, aside from the A6M2. I have lost hundreds upon hundreds to Ops. I have toned this down a bit lately, but it's still there, typically losing 1 per turn. This is what happens when you resize almost all of your FP units to 20 or 24, and use these guys on subs (only a few subs still have Glens).

G3M3 (42) - primary long range naval search platform, although I am lacking in unit numbers.

H6K4-L (26) - I overproduced here, unless I lose some to CAP somewhere later. There just aren't many IJN Transport units.

H6K5 (55) - Also overproduced. I did a lot of turns without changing anything or keeping track of stuff. Still, I don't know that I want to change the factory to anything else.

H8K2 (32) - Nearly all Patrol units are upgraded to this by now. I am building up a reserve of them to fill out any new units I might get (I think there are a few), and will turn the factory off at some point.

H8K2-L (10) - I would love to use tons of these planes, but I don't have the OOB for them. Again, not many Navy units can use them.

J1N1-S (38) - Only 2 or 3 units can use these yet, and only 1 is upgraded. His night bombing efforts are just too scattered. I am kind of waiting for the -Sa version, as I will produce that in numbers for the radar.

J2M3 (2) - This just came online. Still have 2 factories R&Ding for the J2M5, because why not?

Ki-100-I (105) - I will likely produce this plane through the end of the war, given my combat observations on it between all my games. It is a very good one.

Ki-43-IV (142) - For now it's a decent little fighter, and will definitely be a kamikaze later. Almost nothing still uses the Ha-35, so I'm going to produce a lot of these pretty blue babies. I might turn it off at 300 in the pool, and I might turn it off at 500. I really don't know.

Ki-44-IIc (99) - The Ki-100 has largely replaced this one, but I can't decide if I should cancel production entirely and shift the factories.

Ki-45 KAIa (19) - Still remains one of my defenses against 4Es.

Ki-45 KAIc (14) - Accidentally let this factory upgrade from the 'a' version. I have left it as it isn't a terrible plane, but only one unit is using it right now.

Ki-46-III (29) - Don't have a lot of Recon losses anymore.

Ki-48-IIc (0) - I just converted this factory 6 turns ago. I bumped it up to size 60 this turn. Nice plane, haven't used them at all.

Ki-49-II KAI (12) - Just upgraded another transport unit to them. It loses a little bit on range vs. the Topsy and Thalia, but carries more.

Ki-49-IIa (50) - Don't have many losses here as I barely use them anymore. I don't see much point in upgrading to the -IIb model, either. Most are in Burma or still in China, though some have shifted to the SRA. I could stand to overhaul my aerial ASW and use these.

Ki-57-II (57) - Not much to say here, other than I'm not producing the Thalia in favor of this plane. I regret the loss of range compared to the Thalia, but this is easier on my engine production.

Ki-84a (86) - Haven't decided which unit(s) are going to get these next, so have just been building the pool.

L2D2 (44) - Don't have that many IJNAF Transport units... I might still have a Tina unit or two that could upgrade, but...

N1K1-J (44) - Same deal here as the Frank-a, except that I do actually have some units in mind. However, the N1K2 isn't THAT far out, so I'm being patient. Current arrival date is 11/43 with 59% research, so definitely by the end of this month. I need to look at the N1K5 again and decide if I'm going to produce it. I think I might.

P1Y1 (65) - Long term replacement for the Betty, and probable kamikaze. I will continue to build this pool. I am researching the Okha version (same with the Betty Okha version) so that I can use the rocketmen.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 5

RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/19/2018 5:10:15 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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And the R&D side of my example. When collating this particular image I accidentally duplicated a few factories, but you can see the thrust of things here.

quote:

And here's R&D.

I put another factory on the D4Y3 so that it would finish this turn. We have non-historical R&D on... if I had known what this did I wouldn't have requested it. I thought it was simply more flexibility in which airframes I could change factories to (less penalty for switching "types"/lines). I only took advantage of the other features of the setting for the A6M5c to arrive around when the Hellcat arrived, and to skip all of the Oscars before the Ki-43. Otherwise, I've gone in order.

Some of these factories were set up later, as other models became obsolete, so that's why my third Ki-83 factory is so far behind the other two, for example.

Am I missing any?

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/19/2018 5:59:30 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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From: Toronto and Lima
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good to see I am not the only one overproducing E13A1

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/19/2018 6:56:06 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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Wow, this is always a loaded topic and you'll get as many answers as respondents. One thing I think is important, have a plan on day one and stick to it. If you make a 'mistake' in your own view you'll most likely have to change things in your next game. There're many paths to take and each decision will affect things down the line. Remember no matter what choices you make, you must make the corresponding engine decisions.

quote:

Tokyo - (0/6) Ki-54c Hickory - small load and short range

Hehehe. An often overlooked and maligned aircraft. To start with if depends on your previous decisions (see above

). I don't produce the Ha-31, preferring others engine options. That said I go for the Topsey-I which uses the Ha-5 I believe and you have a stock to begin with so I don't make more just use the stock. Now I've found that I begin to 'run' low on spare transports around the start of '43. Tah-dah, what becomes available then. Hickory, and I have a ready supply of engines for that plane. Hitachi (early) or some such. Only other plane that could use this engine is the Ida, and I'm sorry if you've produced that plane you are wrong.

Please don't get mad if you have, just sayin'.

Do I produce the 160 some that I could using this engine. No just what I need. If nothing else they will make good trainers, but they are more effective than that if you think about it. Short range, yes, but that's if you intend to use them to airdrop something. If used to transport supplies/troops base to base that range is based on their general distance range. I'm not going to state it here because I don't remember how its calculated. Its not complicated, its base on its simple base to base transfer range IIRC. That gives if a decent haul distance.

quote:

(0/1) D4Y2 Judy - same characteristics as D4Y1; D4Y3 carries bigger bomb,

IIRC Judy 1,2,3, all have same loadout.

quote:

Myoko

No. Just no, no reason.

quote:

J2M5 Jack

I do a few. Best climb rate for a naval fighter. Its supposed to make a difference in a CAP operation, how much I don't know. The second version is SR2 if that makes you feel better, you could stop there if you choose.

quote:

Ki-100-II Tony

I don't bother, the Tojo is not much different and you can get it much earlier. You'll save slots for more important aircraft this way.

quote:

A6M3a (67) - still producing as I still desire a longer range IJN escort plane for Bettys/Frances.

Felt the same way about this plane. No longer. Anything before the A6M5 is toast due to its frail airframe. They were getting shot down at an alarming rate, and yes good leaders and training. Don't get me wrong the M5 isn't perfect just a bit stronger. I don't go for the M8, too small an improvement. I stop after the 5c, and go for the Sam. Some here don't even believe you should go that far with the Zero line.

quote:

good to see I am not the only one overproducing E13A1

Its not an overproduction if you're doing it 'right'.

I increased production to 90/month on day one. Its now mid-Feb '43 in my game and I have about 27 spares in the pool. I've got about 6-8 more groups to convert to this plane as yet. See I resize most of my float plane groups for this aircraft, its not the best searcher, but its the only one Japan may use in large numbers. Heck I even have about 3-4 groups using my excess Glens as training units for this plane.

And on, and on, and on...

Lokasenna is a 'top' player IMHO, and I didn't read all his decisions, but I know he and I differ in some instances. I for one here am not saying he's wrong either, just different. So take a strong interest in his opinions. Again, as many opinions as players. You'll develop your own ideas and methods over time, and these, as mine and others, will change with experience and time.

Edit:Something i forgot to add. Skipping of airframes is frowned upon by different players. So if you choose to use this tactic I would check with my opponent first.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/19/2018 7:07:01 PM >

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/19/2018 7:56:33 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

good to see I am not the only one overproducing E13A1

Overproducing? Who's overproducing here? Not I, said the fly.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/20/2018 12:23:25 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
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Hey Loka, what's the date of your game?

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/20/2018 5:08:17 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hey Loka, what's the date of your game?

In those screenshots? That's sometime in September 1943.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/20/2018 6:00:52 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hey Loka, what's the date of your game?

In those screenshots? That's sometime in September 1943.

That's gotta be a mod. That's a heck of a lot of factories.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/20/2018 9:27:43 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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I count 56. Japan starts the game with 77 IIRC. Guess it looks like a lot when you put them all together. BTW that's R&D sites.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/20/2018 9:29:25 PM >

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/22/2018 5:46:17 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hey Loka, what's the date of your game?

In those screenshots? That's sometime in September 1943.

That's gotta be a mod. That's a heck of a lot of factories.

It's scenario 2, not really a mod.

For the R&D factories, I did accidentally duplicate about 5-6 of them when collating the images into one image. If you look, you can see the starting at the N1K's on the R&D list they are duplicated. An oopsie.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/22/2018 8:55:51 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

For the R&D factories, I did accidentally duplicate about 5-6 of them when collating the images into one image. If you look, you can see the starting at the N1K's on the R&D list they are duplicated. An oopsie.

No worries � pasting those screenshots together is a pain that we all know, hate, but appreciate.

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RE: R and D Factories with PDU on for Japan - 9/24/2018 12:29:02 PM

ElvisDaKing

Posts: 130
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From: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Here's an example of mine...

quote:

Been wanting to put this together for a while, with some comments.

Model (pool) - comments

P1Y1 (65) - Long term replacement for the Betty, and probable kamikaze. I will continue to build this pool. I am researching the Okha version (same with the Betty Okha version) so that I can use the rocketmen.

I do research the Frances as well as replacement for the Betty, but i don t build the P1Y1 Frances due to its poor Service Rating = 4
I push and convert the R&D to next model P1Y2, as it has a better SR, (2), and carry a radar, which will be useful in night raids against allied shipping....

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