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Blizzard in November?

 
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Blizzard in November? - 9/29/2018 11:05:51 PM   
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Kielec
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Status: offline 		Playing as Soviets, just entered the mid November '41 with random weather. Blizzard hits Central Soviet weather zone on turn 22. Well, neat! But wait! All of them Wehrmacht units are at full power (it was mud before, so I got a bit relaxed, that's true), and there's no end to assault after assault after assault...
Hey! It's not snow! It's blizzard! Ze Gerrmans don't seem to mind my screams!

The manual states that the "first winter" effects... well it is not too clear, but the talk is about it kicking in under blizzard, but starting December... So, I guess, them Gerrrmans were not getting too cold until December came? Or is it just that the random weather generator is not supposed to (although it can, as far as the manual goes) produce a blizzard turn before December (when there is no random weather any more 'cose it's BLIZZARD, baby!)?
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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 12:18:54 AM   
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thedoctorking
Matrix Elite Guard



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Status: offline 		The manual says the first winter rules apply to Axis units during Blizzard turns in any scenario that includes December 1941. So any Blizzard turn would be affected. Of course, the manual might not be the actual case.

In any case, even if the first winter rules don't apply, it's still blizzard and not the optimal time for Germans to be attacking. Are you playing another human or the AI? Ask your opponent.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 2:08:28 AM   
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HardLuckYetAgain
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Status: offline 		1st winter blizzard effects take place in Dec. Any Blizzard before that is treated as a normal blizzard for all practical purposes.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 4:58:00 AM   
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beender
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

1st winter blizzard effects take place in Dec. Any Blizzard before that is treated as a normal blizzard for all practical purposes.


Maybe this should be changed. I don't see any reason why Nov is different than Dec.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 2:09:38 PM   
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Kielec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

1st winter blizzard effects take place in Dec. Any Blizzard before that is treated as a normal blizzard for all practical purposes.


You realise, of course, that this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Other than the possible "game mechanics", that is.

That would be most unfortunate...

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 10:27:48 PM   
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Chris21wen
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Status: offline 		1 in 20 chance, 1 in 20 for mud the rest is snow. Just look on it as just starting

In dec it's 2 in 20 for snow, rest blizzard.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 9/30/2018 11:02:53 PM   
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HardLuckYetAgain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kielec


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

1st winter blizzard effects take place in Dec. Any Blizzard before that is treated as a normal blizzard for all practical purposes.


You realise, of course, that this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Other than the possible "game mechanics", that is.

That would be most unfortunate...


You are saying what I wrote or how the mechanics work make no sense? Either way it is what it is and the Soviets will get NO bonus unless the blizzard is in Dec 41 through March of 42. Any time a blizzard happens before or after this date is a normal blizzard for both sides. Simple as that.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 3:30:43 AM   
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thedoctorking
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Status: offline 		If I'm reading the random weather chart correctly, the chance for blizzard in the North Soviet zone is 3/11 in November. Roll a random(11) and add four for North zone, right?

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 6:37:12 AM   
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Chris21wen
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

If I'm reading the random weather chart correctly, the chance for blizzard in the North Soviet zone is 3/11 in November. Roll a random(11) and add four for North zone, right?


He said central zone but that does't matter. There's new rules governing weather see http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4529371. Don't know the patch without looking it up.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 11:06:52 AM   
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Kielec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


You are saying what I wrote or how the mechanics work make no sense? Either way it is what it is and the Soviets will get NO bonus unless the blizzard is in Dec 41 through March of 42. Any time a blizzard happens before or after this date is a normal blizzard for both sides. Simple as that.


A November blizzard having no first winter effect makes no sense, and I don't really see why I would have to expand on it. Seems self explanatory.
But to make things clear, here goes. As the manual itself says, the first winter rule is there to simulate the innitial unpreparedness of Der Wehrmacht for the harshness of Russian winter. But, as the game will have it, ze Gerrmans were still prepared for General Winter in November 1941, and only by December all the winter gear vanished!? Die Russische Banditten have stolen all the warm socks on the last night of November?


Also, the new manual makes the nonsense official. Check this:. 22.2.2 shows the new random weather tables, which provide for a chance for blizzard weatehr in Central Zone from 8th November (and in North Zone from 10th October!), but further down, in 22.3.1 the First Winter effects are discussed by month starting with... December! So, as per new manual, any possible blizzard in October or November is not, how to put it, not a real blizzard, you know.

A major omission in my opinion. And as stated before, most unfortunate.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 12:57:26 PM   
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HardLuckYetAgain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kielec


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


You are saying what I wrote or how the mechanics work make no sense? Either way it is what it is and the Soviets will get NO bonus unless the blizzard is in Dec 41 through March of 42. Any time a blizzard happens before or after this date is a normal blizzard for both sides. Simple as that.


A November blizzard having no first winter effect makes no sense, and I don't really see why I would have to expand on it. Seems self explanatory.
But to make things clear, here goes. As the manual itself says, the first winter rule is there to simulate the innitial unpreparedness of Der Wehrmacht for the harshness of Russian winter. But, as the game will have it, ze Gerrmans were still prepared for General Winter in November 1941, and only by December all the winter gear vanished!? Die Russische Banditten have stolen all the warm socks on the last night of November?


Also, the new manual makes the nonsense official. Check this:. 22.2.2 shows the new random weather tables, which provide for a chance for blizzard weatehr in Central Zone from 8th November (and in North Zone from 10th October!), but further down, in 22.3.1 the First Winter effects are discussed by month starting with... December! So, as per new manual, any possible blizzard in October or November is not, how to put it, not a real blizzard, you know.

A major omission in my opinion. And as stated before, most unfortunate.



Stop attacking the messenger (i.e. ME) and direct it to the programmers/designers that made it that way ;-) But in defense of them the game was made to be played without the option for random weather. So this situation only came up because of the random weather being added and consider it a bug until addressed. IMHO people are getting worked up over nothing here and the rhetoric is getting too deep.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 4:15:47 PM   
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Chris21wen
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Status: offline 		The weather in Russia during the first winter was extreme. In fact it was colder accross the whole of Europe than normal, even in Sept. In Russia, Jan 42 it was up to 20 degrees colder than normal and it's these conditions the irst winter rules represents. For me it makes sense, you just suffered the luck of the draw and got an early blizzard.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 7:11:04 PM   
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Dreamslayer
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

The weather in Russia during the first winter was extreme. In fact it was colder accross the whole of Europe than normal, even in Sept. In Russia, Jan 42 it was up to 20 degrees colder than normal and it's these conditions the irst winter rules represents. For me it makes sense, you just suffered the luck of the draw and got an early blizzard.

Sorry but why is "20 degrees colder than normal"? I dont think so.
You can compare some stats of temperatures (for example in Leningard Jan,1940 or choose others months or cities) - http://thermo.karelia.ru/weather/w_history.php?town=spb&month=1&year=1940
Probably german generals reported about minimum temperatures and they never knew about a fact that in Russia sometimes during winter can be a bit cold. Why they didnt asked Finns about weather during The Winter War.

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RE: Blizzard in November? - 10/1/2018 9:16:18 PM   
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Chris21wen
Matrix Legion of Merit


 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		OK so I maybe I should have said average temperature but I was trying to explain why blizzrd was possible in the game in Dec without having to use the first winter rules. I was not trying to be pedantic.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 14
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