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Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 3:34:15 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		In current game the axis DOW’d Greece (a questionable enterprise but done nonetheless). Of course the game asks about alignment and in the case of Greece the USSR comes up because of Moscow’s proximity - I chose USSR but realized later that I should have just passed Russia and gone with Commonwealth- for a country like this one should be able to assign it to any allied major power I think. It’s only if all are passed that one risks a complete conquest. USSR is a bad choice in most cases compared to CW I’d think- both in terms of getting troops into Greece and also with respect to the 10 freighters Greece gets...

Also I didn’t realize that if Greece is conquered, Crete, along with a few islands, becomes a neutral country, in this case aligned to Russia....
Post #: 1
RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 4:56:37 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		If the Allies (or Axis, for that matter) get a unit into Crete before Greece is conquered, it will not go neutral. Yes, Greece should always go to the CW. The CW can get units into Greece; Russia can not. (Or if it can, the Allies are winning anyway.)

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RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 7:34:49 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Also, Russia must have been Active (at war with an Axis major power) or it should not be offered.

And the territories remaining go neutral (not aligned to Russia) and must be DoW'd like a minor country by whoever would want them - although why you would want them is an open question.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 7/25/2018 7:38:54 PM >

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RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 10:59:17 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks - good point- could have dropped a CW unit into Crete.

Yeah the only thing Russia could do (it is at war - the invasion of Greece came late as the axis decided to conquer yugoslavia instead of a sea invasion or going through Albania) would have been to air lift in troops to Athens ... but had none to spare...

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Post #: 4
RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 11:02:09 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Right ... Crete is neutral now ... shouldn’t be aligned to Russia - the counters belonging to Crete have the brown bar across the top which made me think they were still in league with Stalin...

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RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 11:13:31 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		... and... I guess to have got a CW unit into Crete .... CW would have to meet foreign troop commitment as Greece would not cooperate with CW.. which means landing an HQ... not very inticing ...

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RE: Greece + Crete - 7/25/2018 11:53:21 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		No, Greece is a minor country, so any major power can put troops into it without penalty, just as France can move into Belgium after the CW aligns it, or Italy can move into Hungary and Rumania after Germany aligns them.

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Post #: 7
RE: Greece + Crete - 7/26/2018 2:12:31 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Ah... right ...other aligned minors may be restricted but not majors... that jives with my experience...

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Post #: 8
RE: Greece + Crete - 8/2/2018 1:17:48 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		So... what happened next is a learning moment. Axis decided to DOW Crete primarily because there was a JU-52 unit in Athens with a German paratroop core. In the DOW the allies aligned Crete to CW, having learned their lesson. When Crete was conquered, which was a sure thing because of the surprise, there were Greek ships in Heraklion... they had to rebase... but it dawned on me ... these were still Greek ships, aligned to USSR, which is why they still had a brown bar across the top. They had to be destroyed because they couldn’t rebase because they couldn’t get into the Black Sea. The game was correct as far as I can tell.

In retaliation the CW took Leros and captured a stranded Italian cruiser. Kind of cool, but what they do with Leros remains to be seen. Maybe a base for B-24 raids on Ploesti? Actually, what the axis do with Crete remains to be seen but North Africa is at least in range of German air transports - far safer than Italian sea transports.

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Post #: 9
RE: Greece + Crete - 8/2/2018 2:04:13 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Or more correctly - ussr gained possession of Greek ships when Greece was conquered- the ships originally rebased to Crete when Athens was captured...

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Post #: 10
RE: Greece + Crete - 8/2/2018 3:06:45 AM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

So... what happened next is a learning moment. Axis decided to DOW Crete primarily because there was a JU-52 unit in Athens with a German paratroop core. In the DOW the allies aligned Crete to CW, having learned their lesson. When Crete was conquered, which was a sure thing because of the surprise, there were Greek ships in Heraklion... they had to rebase... but it dawned on me ... these were still Greek ships, aligned to USSR, which is why they still had a brown bar across the top. They had to be destroyed because they couldn’t rebase because they couldn’t get into the Black Sea. The game was correct as far as I can tell.

In retaliation the CW took Leros and captured a stranded Italian cruiser. Kind of cool, but what they do with Leros remains to be seen. Maybe a base for B-24 raids on Ploesti? Actually, what the axis do with Crete remains to be seen but North Africa is at least in range of German air transports - far safer than Italian sea transports.

Actually, the ships in Crete likely had places to go: Any CW owned port in the Med that did not have a CW unit in it -- Cyprus, for example, or possibly someplace in Palestine. If there were Axis combat vessels in the Eastern Med., then you could not click direction on the destination; first you would have had to control-click on the Eastern Med, have a possible interception attempt, and after that was resolved, have the new Soviet ships move to their destination. Clicking directly on the destination would not work.

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RE: Greece + Crete - 8/3/2018 1:38:52 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Interesting.... yes one would have to do the control - left click to pass through the sea area ... the game could not find any locations to debase to but I think you’re saying I’d have to be able to “pass through” the sea area first. Actually, at the point this happened most of the ports may have had CW or US ships in them- Gibraltar, Malta, Alexandra, Suez, and Cyprus. But maybe not Haifa. But now that I think of it... if I had call control left
Clicked in eastern med maybe it would have worked.

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Post #: 12
RE: Greece + Crete - 8/3/2018 6:19:28 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		If you want to know where a selected group of naval units can move, try F11. It isn't in the documentation (I added to code for debug purposes). It will show you all the ports and sea areas where the selected naval units can move.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 13
RE: Greece + Crete - 9/22/2018 5:59:55 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks! (Sorry was offline for a while).

For new players don’t forget that the main form will usually tell you where the closest eligible move is for an abort or return to port requirement...

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Post #: 14
RE: Greece + Crete - 9/29/2018 2:07:06 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		On a different but perhaps related matter., axis decided to bring an IAR 80 out of retirement in Rumania, but when it came to placing units, there was no legal hex to place the plane due to unit presence and/ or stacking limits. In the end I had to redo the pilot assignment bit because there was nothing I could do- in other cases, if one can’t place a unit in anhex or adjacent to it, the game holds the unit off board until it can be placed but with pilot assignment I guess one has to check if there is a legal hex to enter on when assigning pilots.

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RE: Greece + Crete - 10/1/2018 5:16:40 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		Most important Greek island for the CW to keep: Lemnos.

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Post #: 16
RE: Greece + Crete - 10/1/2018 5:48:37 PM   
tom730_slith

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 1/28/2014
Status: offline 		I had no idea! This is great to know!!!

Regarding Greece, as the Axis I always try to take it for the purpose of aligning Yugoslavia! Several decent units PLUS a Headquarters Unit! Historically pretty accurate since Hitler had bullied the Yugoslavians into going the Axis, followed up quickly by a British inspired coup!


quote:

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

Thanks! (Sorry was offline for a while).

For new players don’t forget that the main form will usually tell you where the closest eligible move is for an abort or return to port requirement...

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Post #: 17
RE: Greece + Crete - 10/28/2018 10:22:35 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I’ve only played once so far where Greece came into play- the catch 22 is that one can’t use Yugoslavia to attack Greece which means troops have to some in via sea where the CW and allies can cut-off supply. In the situation I noted aboveYugolslavia had already fallen. But all those pesky partisans In Yugoslavia are a real headache so aligning is certainly worth the consideration...

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Post #: 18
RE: Greece + Crete - 10/29/2018 4:57:25 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've seen Germany DoW Hungary and Bulgaria, attack Greece from the north using Germans and Rumanians along with some Ge and It Div invasions, and then align Yugo.

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Post #: 19
RE: Greece + Crete - 10/30/2018 9:17:56 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I've seen Germany DoW Hungary and Bulgaria, attack Greece from the north using Germans and Rumanians along with some Ge and It Div invasions, and then align Yugo.


This looks promising

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Post #: 20
RE: Greece + Crete - 11/11/2018 10:50:09 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Of course! Bulgaria... ! I guess the Germans have to be at war with Russia for this to happen ... and of course that Bulgaria isn’t going to align with Soviets...

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Post #: 21
RE: Greece + Crete - 11/11/2018 10:51:43 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Oh right sorry - DOW Hungary and Bulgaria. I always DOw Hungary as Germans but never thought to DOW Bulgaria ...

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Post #: 22
RE: Greece + Crete - 11/12/2018 7:34:28 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

Of course! Bulgaria... ! I guess the Germans have to be at war with Russia for this to happen ... and of course that Bulgaria isn’t going to align with Soviets...


Bulgaria can be aligned by GE after war with Russia if some circumstances have been met (or Aixs controlling Belgrade or at war with Greece):

And Bulgaria could be aligned to USSR (the only one in the area). If the USSR claims the Bessarabia, GE player cedes it, then Bulgaria claims South Dobrudja from Romania, and if the GE player doesn't give it, ...

quote:

In the next Axis declaration of war step, Hungary and Bulgaria make demands on Rumania for Transylvania and South Dobruja respectively. Germany, as mediator, must either allow both claims or deny both.


quote:

If Germany denies their claims:


quote:

ï Bulgaria can never align with Germany but the USSR can declare it aligned with the USSR during any later Allied declaration of war step;

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RE: Greece + Crete - 11/12/2018 8:10:22 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Bulgaria can't align with a neutral power (so forget about USSR unless it is at war with JP), so the trick is to DoW Bulgaria the same impulse you deny them South Dubrugia. Bulgaria must align with an active power and it is an Axis DoW step, not an Allied one, so if USSR is not active, then Bulgaria must align with CW or France or it is instantly conquered.


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RE: Greece + Crete - 11/13/2018 6:43:28 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Bulgaria can't align with a neutral power (so forget about USSR unless it is at war with JP), so the trick is to DoW Bulgaria the same impulse you deny them South Dubrugia. Bulgaria must align with an active power and it is an Axis DoW step, not an Allied one, so if USSR is not active, then Bulgaria must align with CW or France or it is instantly conquered.



RAW:

A minor country enters the war when:
• a major power declares war on it (it joins the other side); or
• it aligns with a major power (see 9.8).
If a minor country aligns with a major power, it is controlled by that
major power.
(...)
In every other case, when one or more major powers declare war on a
minor country, choose an active major power on the other side to align
with it.

So a neutral USSR can align Bulgaria except when it gets DoW'ed on by the Axis first. Interesting. Never thought about this one to avoid the Soviets to align the Bulgarians...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/13/2018 6:45:28 PM >

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RE: Greece + Crete - 11/17/2018 1:41:30 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		That’s what I love about this game - just when you think you know what’s what....
Aligning Bulgaria for Axis or forcing an alignment with CW or France (which is brilliant) is fraught with timing issues - maybe the blunt DOW approach is the way to go if Axis really feel they need to go into Greece...

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Post #: 26
RE: Greece + Crete - 12/2/2018 3:39:54 AM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		And so ... in current game actually, the request for Transylvania was denied so Germany could align Rumania as a full ally. However, Bulgaria will align with the soviets which will then protect them from a DOW by the standing neutrality pact. The axis will have to wait until the pact is broken to get into Greece that way if they also intend to align Yugoslavia... I think ....

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Post #: 27
RE: Greece + Crete - 12/2/2018 6:40:12 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		The timing is critical - Ge must deny the claim and then DoW Bulgaria in the same impulse. Otherwise USSR will align Bulgaria (unless there are no Ge/It US entry chits).

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