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RE: Week 40- Fighting rages on - 9/25/2018 6:22:51 PM   
thedoctorking


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I could be talked into taking a role in this game if you are still interested in playing on. I'm a moderately experienced Soviet player, having played now about five one-on-one games, the longest of which went into 1943. I have played each side about the same number of times (I think maybe 3 Soviet and 2 German). I am also involved in two other multi-player games, Connect4 and 2by3+, both as a Soviet player.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
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RE: Week 40- Fighting rages on - 9/25/2018 7:09:53 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Update on this game.

Two people including myself have decided to drop from the team. The remaining two will decide if they want to continue and recruit some new players for the Soviet side.


Many thank M60A3TTS - we know you have been the power behind the team for over a year now. From a bad hour you brought the soviet side back alive.

I hope also in the best traditions of the team game you can stay in the team and part of the game even if not taking turns. I know I would also be very interested in the analysis of the game after it finishes.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/25/2018 7:33:40 PM >

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Post #: 422
RE: Week 40- Fighting rages on - 9/25/2018 8:02:49 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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The second player leaving is me due to a case of WitE/wargaming burn out syndrome, some ongoing projects will be finished however. Happy to help in the hand-over if there is something to do.


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RE: Week 40- Fighting rages on - 9/25/2018 9:30:28 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

The second player leaving is me due to a case of WitE/wargaming burn out syndrome, some ongoing projects will be finished however. Happy to help in the hand-over if there is something to do.



Many thanks EvK - you are an old stalwart and you have gone and come back before. I hope though we will still have your occasional comments and reactions. We still have our whole Treppenwitz plan to discuss!

I know the period of change and handover can be disconcerting so it is great that you can help with that.

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Week 41- It's the only way to be sure. - 9/30/2018 12:29:45 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 41 is notable for a rather intense interest in one hex. It is scrutinized rather closely by the Luftwaffe.



Yes, that's 75 missions against one hex. It was the only way to be sure. But let's not stop here...


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Post #: 425
RE: Week 41 - 9/30/2018 12:43:07 AM   
M60A3TTS


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The SS Das Reich and 25th Motorized Division decided that they were not comfortable being east of the Don. After retreating to the western bank they were subjected to a punishing assault by Bagramyan's 1st Guards Army. The VVS is also active in the area.




The Axis will claim many successful attacks this week. But, with losses like this they must be careful not to win themselves to death.


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Post #: 426
RE: Week 42 April and Rasputitsa - 9/30/2018 12:55:56 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Mud arrives across the entire front as April kicks off with Week 42. Attacks on both sides have abated accordingly.


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RE: Week 43 April and time for tank corps - 9/30/2018 1:05:34 AM   
M60A3TTS


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April is the time to start forming tank corps. During the blizzard, the Red Army not only focused on gaining victories for their rifle divisions, but for cavalry and tank units as well! Comrade Stalin recognizes this key achievement and awards a number of guards banners to our heroic tank men.


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RE: Week 44 Peace and Quiet. But for how long? - 9/30/2018 1:15:50 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 44

As the men sit in their trenches at Voronezh, one welcomes the warming temperatures that have brought quiet to the combat zone. But unknown to them, meteorologists note a severe cold front on the move. The River Don is impassible at the moment. But a sudden freeze might change everything.


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RE: Week 45 Merry Christmas Adolf - 9/30/2018 1:30:29 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 45

The northern weather zone as predicted sees a major shift this week in temperature. A large part of the front is frozen once again, and with that the fighting resumes.



Even as far south as Voronezh, the River Don is affected and that enables the panzers to roar over the frozen ice once more.




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RE: Week 46 - 9/30/2018 1:38:49 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 46 - Mud again

Mud has returned across the front. Meanwhile the panzers have withdrawn from their bridgehead over the Don and been replaced by infantry.


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RE: Week 43 April and time for tank corps - 9/30/2018 9:54:36 AM   
56ajax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

April is the time to start forming tank corps. During the blizzard, the Red Army not only focused on gaining victories for their rifle divisions, but for cavalry and tank units as well! Comrade Stalin recognizes this key achievement and awards a number of guards banners to our heroic tank men.



Out of curiosity what is happening when the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Guards Tank Corps are renamed as themselves

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

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Post #: 432
RE: Week 43 April and time for tank corps - 9/30/2018 4:35:11 PM   
M60A3TTS


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At the moment those units were merged, the tank corps had the required number of wins to become guards. The AI evidently followed the same decision-making routine as it does during the logistics phase to decide to immediately make the three a guards corps. During the subsequent logistics phase, it more or less confirmed what it had already done.

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Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/2/2018 5:11:49 PM   
M60A3TTS


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Clear weather dominates the north and south zones as the month of May arrives.

The Germans in a single battle manage to crush the defense at Sevastopol. A level 5 fort no less. A repeat performance sees mountain divisions in a rough hex and a level 4 fort beaten. More than anything, a very frustrating result to see.




In the north, the Axis troops push in the area of the Valdai.




South of the Oka, there are attacks by both sides. Not surprisingly, our opponents take full advantage to attack in many places.




Air losses are not insignificant as the VVS is out in force. Still, the loss ratio is acceptable.


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RE: Week 48- May - 10/2/2018 5:18:31 PM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 48 sees more clear weather in the northern zone. Under non-variable weather this would have been mud. German troops are pushing ahead with their plans while Red Army units take action north of Voronezh.


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RE: Week 48- May - 10/2/2018 5:26:26 PM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 49 sees mud return in the northern zone while central and southern are clear. Not surprisingly, the fighting move to that theater and Voroshilovgrad falls while several Red Army units are encircled.


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RE: Week 50 - 10/2/2018 5:30:54 PM   
M60A3TTS


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Week 50 is clear only in the narrow central weather zone, so the Axis do some cleaning up while the Red Army concentrates on its defenses.


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RE: Week 51 - 10/2/2018 5:39:03 PM   
M60A3TTS


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The month of June has arrived. We will shortly see how the Red Army is capable of reacting to the resumption of full-blown operations across the front.

For now, the northern area remains muddy. A pullback to the east takes place near Voronezh.




Some of our units in the south are again caught up in a pocket created by their 1st Panzer Army. There are 50,000 men here.


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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/3/2018 7:47:22 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Clear weather dominates the north and south zones as the month of May arrives.

The Germans in a single battle manage to crush the defense at Sevastopol. A level 5 fort no less. A repeat performance sees mountain divisions in a rough hex and a level 4 fort beaten. More than anything, a very frustrating result to see.





This is two VERY interesting combat result here. Interesting in the fact you had to be EXTREMELY lucky to get both of these hexes in just two combats against Guards in one hex and Soviet Mountain divisions in the other. I can see M60's frustration since you pretty much have the best capable Soviet units(Guards & Mountain Divisions) pretty much swept away in excellent fortification. So, I am going to see what other miracles the southern most commander pulls off in future turns.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 10/3/2018 7:48:33 PM >


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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 8:31:22 AM   
MarauderPL

 

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The Soviet commanders failed their rolls so the CV plummeted, it happens every now and then unfortunately :( I don't know if the HQ was there on the peninsula, if not, only the morale roll were in the realm of possibility.
The first battle was quite lucky as the German commander passed most of his rolls at the same time. But its Model, so what else could we expect :)

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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 4:09:16 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Clear weather dominates the north and south zones as the month of May arrives.

The Germans in a single battle manage to crush the defense at Sevastopol. A level 5 fort no less. A repeat performance sees mountain divisions in a rough hex and a level 4 fort beaten. More than anything, a very frustrating result to see.





This is two VERY interesting combat result here. Interesting in the fact you had to be EXTREMELY lucky to get both of these hexes in just two combats against Guards in one hex and Soviet Mountain divisions in the other. I can see M60's frustration since you pretty much have the best capable Soviet units(Guards & Mountain Divisions) pretty much swept away in excellent fortification. So, I am going to see what other miracles the southern most commander pulls off in future turns.


I would be interested to understand your threshold for “extremely lucky?” P(x) < .50 ? < .25 ? < .10 ?

From my albeit inexperienced worldview but with some knowledge of the firepower system I see big siege guns clearing out the fort levels as the first action. Note, pioneers do their thing after combat .. seige guns right after AirPower.. now with reduced fort levels in both cases you can note a huge advantage in firepower .. a lot of big artillery.. the Soviet is out gunned and I would suspect when the smoke cleared not enough undisrupted CV to hold the position. The first combat was close for sure but given a deliberate attack I might propose on the low end of the variance not the high en
If one were to propose there is a problem .. seige Artillery is quite effective at fort reduction ...

The other problem might have been a strategic decision to face up everything vs the center. What would the results here be if this was 3 rifle corps instead of 3 divisions?


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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 4:25:06 PM   
M60A3TTS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The other problem might have been a strategic decision to face up everything vs the center. What would the results here be if this was 3 rifle corps instead of 3 divisions?


That question is rather irrelevant in this case as rifle corps are unavailable until June, but the manpower differential would be significantly narrower.

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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 4:38:14 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
The other problem might have been a strategic decision to face up everything vs the center. What would the results here be if this was 3 rifle corps instead of 3 divisions?


That question is rather irrelevant in this case as rifle corps are unavailable until June, but the manpower differential would be significantly narrower.


Good point .. I forgot rifle corps do not start until June. What about Artillery SU’s? (Match the number of tubes) my helds have been when I have failed to match the number of tubes and lose a close contest ). It does look like one more Guards division might have made a difference here. Although a second attack would be against no fort defenses.

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 10/4/2018 4:41:08 PM >


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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 5:00:36 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Clear weather dominates the north and south zones as the month of May arrives.

The Germans in a single battle manage to crush the defense at Sevastopol. A level 5 fort no less. A repeat performance sees mountain divisions in a rough hex and a level 4 fort beaten. More than anything, a very frustrating result to see.


This is two VERY interesting combat result here. Interesting in the fact you had to be EXTREMELY lucky to get both of these hexes in just two combats against Guards in one hex and Soviet Mountain divisions in the other. I can see M60's frustration since you pretty much have the best capable Soviet units(Guards & Mountain Divisions) pretty much swept away in excellent fortification. So, I am going to see what other miracles the southern most commander pulls off in future turns.


I went back to the file save at the start of the turn and had a go myself today. Without changing anything most of the time the attacks failed. When I reassigned two divisions so that the lead commander was Model most of the time the attacks succeeded but only just. It is not a proper test or simulation but it does indicate it is not off the wall. I assume spending time during the turn assigning SUs, ground bombing with all the stukas that had been moved to Crimea, reassigning units and so on would improve the odds.

The surprising result was the 8.8 to 1 - if that had not occurred I doubt there would have been an attempt on Sevastopol that same turn. Certainly the team plans had assumed it would take longer. I was asked by a member of the Soviet team to send the full detailed battle report. Their query was they could not understand how 23 axis support units got committed as they assumed that was beyond what was possible according to the manual. Having that much super heavy artillery and that many pioneers had an impact. They also thought putting the three mountain units under the same HQ would have prevented the CV penalties of up to 30%, and not putting them under a front HQ would have avoided any CV penalties altogether. The other comment was on the prior ground bombing - the full 14 dive bomber airgroups were used, they started with very high XP and morale and had been left waiting there for turns and so started with no fatigue. The comment made was that flak should have been directly assigned to Sevastopol to at least provide some distraction. As it turned out you had the maximum possible ground bombing and no interference with the ground support.

There was a more general debate about the chances of taking Sevastopol generally in games. Others seemed to think it was too difficult or took too long. My impression from the forums is that most others think the same way. My experience is that most of the time it does fall and fall quickly. It is easier in my mind than crossing the Neva to take Leningrad say. The difference seems to be one of commitment. If you send a corps on the hoof to attack Sevastopol it will take many turns of bashing and reducing the fort levels. Here we made a committment of 13 divisions (and one brigade) in 11th army, rested and waiting on refit over many turns, each with 3 pioneers directly assigned plus more and other SUs in the HQs and with the leaders changed to the best including Model. If you spend that quantity of points, that time getting units in place and ready in advance, and with every other support including air and artillery fully maxed out, then you should be able to get Sevastopol and fairly soon.

At least in other conversations on this result we have had in the past the issue seems to be the myth of Sevastopol invincibility, which leads to the surprise of seeing it fall at all. My experience is that Sevastopol falls and falls easily. And if others made the same commitment to get Sevastopol they would also be able to capture it. In this light it should not be seen as so extraordinary.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 10/4/2018 5:28:12 PM >

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RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 5:51:31 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Clear weather dominates the north and south zones as the month of May arrives.

The Germans in a single battle manage to crush the defense at Sevastopol. A level 5 fort no less. A repeat performance sees mountain divisions in a rough hex and a level 4 fort beaten. More than anything, a very frustrating result to see.


This is two VERY interesting combat result here. Interesting in the fact you had to be EXTREMELY lucky to get both of these hexes in just two combats against Guards in one hex and Soviet Mountain divisions in the other. I can see M60's frustration since you pretty much have the best capable Soviet units(Guards & Mountain Divisions) pretty much swept away in excellent fortification. So, I am going to see what other miracles the southern most commander pulls off in future turns.


I went back to the file save at the start of the turn and had a go myself today. Without changing anything most of the time the attacks failed. When I reassigned two divisions so that the lead commander was Model most of the time the attacks succeeded but only just. It is not a proper test or simulation but it does indicate it is not off the wall. I assume spending time during the turn assigning SUs, ground bombing with all the stukas that had been moved to Crimea, reassigning units and so on would improve the odds.

The surprising result was the 8.8 to 1 - if that had not occurred I doubt there would have been an attempt on Sevastopol that same turn. Certainly the team plans had assumed it would take longer. I was asked by a member of the Soviet team to send the full detailed battle report. Their query was they could not understand how 23 axis support units got committed as they assumed that was beyond what was possible according to the manual. Having that much super heavy artillery and that many pioneers had an impact. They also thought putting the three mountain units under the same HQ would have prevented the CV penalties of up to 30%, and not putting them under a front HQ would have avoided any CV penalties altogether. The other comment was on the prior ground bombing - the full 14 dive bomber airgroups were used, they started with very high XP and morale and had been left waiting there for turns and so started with no fatigue. The comment made was that flak should have been directly assigned to Sevastopol to at least provide some distraction. As it turned out you had the maximum possible ground bombing and no interference with the ground support.

There was a more general debate about the chances of taking Sevastopol generally in games. Others seemed to think it was too difficult or took too long. My impression from the forums is that most others think the same way. My experience is that most of the time it does fall and fall quickly. It is easier in my mind than crossing the Neva to take Leningrad say. The difference seems to be one of commitment. If you send a corps on the hoof to attack Sevastopol it will take many turns of bashing and reducing the fort levels. Here we made a committment of 13 divisions (and one brigade) in 11th army, rested and waiting on refit over many turns, each with 3 pioneers directly assigned plus more and other SUs in the HQs and with the leaders changed to the best including Model. If you spend that quantity of points, that time getting units in place and ready in advance, and with every other support including air and artillery fully maxed out, then you should be able to get Sevastopol and fairly soon.

At least in other conversations on this result we have had in the past the issue seems to be the myth of Sevastopol invincibility, which leads to the surprise of seeing it fall at all. My experience is that Sevastopol falls and falls easily. And if others made the same commitment to get Sevastopol they would also be able to capture it. In this light it should not be seen as so extraordinary.


Lots of German rhetoric in this post :-) Poor Germans have it so bad.....

Unfortunately on defense of this area the Soviets get hosed with HQ's either being in a defense hex or out of range. Either way it is a big plus to the German side.

If I were the Soviet I would have put some P40's within range of Sevestopol. Unopposed bombers are not a good thing. That was a big tipping point in those battles.

I will be looking for other interesting things in the south to come ;-) I am sure I will see some soon since the die has been cast for a southern offense with this commitment of troops.

_____________________________


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Post #: 445
RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 6:12:46 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Lots of German rhetoric in this post :-)


I am very surprised at the comment - I went out of my way to make factual statements. I cannot think of a less rhetorical post?

I know you have been involved in a greater debate about the balance of Axis versus Soviets in the game setup - but that is not something I am commenting on at all here.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 10/4/2018 6:19:02 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 446
RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 6:22:43 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Lots of German rhetoric in this post :-)


I am very surprised at the comment - I went out of my way to make factual statements. I cannot think of a less rhetorical post?



The post reads Pro-German. But maybe it is just me.

_____________________________


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Post #: 447
RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 6:25:51 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Lots of German rhetoric in this post :-)


I am very surprised at the comment - I went out of my way to make factual statements. I cannot think of a less rhetorical post?

I know you have been involved in a greater debate about the balance of Axis versus Soviets in the game setup - but that is not something I am commenting on at all here.



Oh! You added a second sentence I see now. No, this isn't a debate about the game balance. Everyone believes the losses are just 100% "A" ok so I have left it alone.

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Post #: 448
RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 6:39:40 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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A big stack of AA in Sevastapol would of been a great help for some extra support and guns

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Post #: 449
RE: Week 47- May and Sevastopol - 10/4/2018 6:40:30 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Lots of German rhetoric in this post :-)

I am very surprised at the comment - I went out of my way to make factual statements. I cannot think of a less rhetorical post?

The post reads Pro-German. But maybe it is just me...

Everyone believes the losses are just 100% "A" ok so I have left it alone


Just you! My knowledge of the loss statistics comes from what you and others have written in these forums so nothing I could add. On the battle result though more will be in the Axis AAR when we catch up.

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