2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany

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2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/4/2018 1:19:26 AM

Gar-Dog

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First, Free France was re-formed after being completely conquered, and reverted to neutral... That was surprising. Only slightly disrupted gameplay (Bingerville in Ivory Coast is a nice port to control for UK shuttling).

Next turn, when all the territories of Free France reverted to German control, that made things very weird!

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/4/2018 1:47:20 AM

Gar-Dog

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Same file, a little later: Vichy built some territorials. The Algeria territorial can't be placed, and the game won't go until the territorial is placed. Gotta do my builds over again I guess.

Since I have to go back, does anyone know how to change control of a hex in the savegame? I'd like to revert the capitulated Free French to American or British...

< Message edited by Gar-Dog -- 10/4/2018 2:08:37 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/4/2018 3:20:06 AM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
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It can be done with beta tools, but if it's a lot of hexes then it is a real chore because you do it hex-by-hex. If there's not too many then zip and post a game save.

If the save is just before conquest, then just doing the capitals might work.

PS: How was FF reformed? Was Vichy collapsed? If completely conquered, by the rules, FF only comes back if Vichy is collapsed or Paris is taken and France is liberated. Not sure though if MWiF is coded this way.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 10/4/2018 3:23:19 AM >

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Paul

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/11/2018 5:49:21 AM

SeanSask

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This has a very familiar sound to it.

In the game I'm currently involved in, Free France did not come into existence after all of its minor country groups went Vichy, which is consistent with RAW 7. The game offered a cryptic message about New Caledonia becoming the Free French home country, but when we checked it was actually not. IIRC, the "New Caledonia is automatically Free French" rule was a 5th edition thing.

Anyway, Vichy was collapsed the very next turn, and per RAW 7, Free France was brought into existence and chose to make Senegal it's new home country. Everything hunky-dory.

Then at the end of the next turn, for who-knows-what reason, Free France was declared by the game to be completely conquered by Germany!?!? Despite the fact that no German unit was anywhere close to Senegal. The U.S. got an additional entry chit roll for France being conquered, and every formerly French minor was now German controlled, while all formerly French territories became neutral.

Since that point, the Allies have regained control of Dakar and attempted to liberate Senegal (the game offered us the option to do it), but this simply resulted in hexes not occupied by the Allies to become German controlled, with the Allied units unable to enter them! The game then offered another opportunity to liberate Senegal at the end of the next turn, which we declined. This resulted in the Allied units at least being able to enter German controlled hexes in Senegal.

Our current work-around is to just not liberate the formerly French minors until France proper can be liberated. Then we'll just have to see what happens.

It is definitely a bug in my opinion, since there was absolutely no reason for the conquest of Free France after it was created the previous turn.

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/11/2018 5:21:23 PM

paulderynck

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Definitely a bug. If you have a saved game from the point where Vichy is about to be collapsed, please zip it and post it, as that's likely the only way it can ever be fixed.

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Paul

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 10/11/2018 7:32:00 PM

davidachamberlain

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There was a bunch of Vichy related defects that occurred around the same time (in that same game with Sean) that were resolved, so I am not really sure that the problem still exists.

In the solitaire games that I have played since, I have not encountered it, but then, I have never since encountered every country going Vichy.

I do have save files for each session, so could find the two games on either side of the problem, but am pretty sure that autosaves have long since been written over.

I have attached a couple files with after Vichy, but before Vichy collapse. Note that this is a Netplay game so would need to use the same file for both sides (which should be okay).

Addition: I also tried converting one of the files (Choose Action - Japan) to Solitaire and stepped through to the Land phase to move a German unit in and collapse. All of the French countries turned to Free French and US only received 2 chits.

So, as near as I can tell, it is working properly, now.

Dave

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< Message edited by davidachamberlain -- 10/11/2018 9:06:28 PM >

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 2:19:42 AM

Gar-Dog

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Several notes based on the discussion:
France WAS completely conquered when the Germans took Paris; I was screwing around with the French navy (paying attention to conquest but not Vichy rules) and ALL colonies went Vichy.

With these colonies, the game had asked me multiple times whether to revert things to Free France, which causes all kinds of bad things since Free France shows up as neutral - so I pulled up a prior game and declined. The colonies STILL reverted to Free France after a turn, then German control. I'd say that Free France is not coded to stay gone, as you guessed Paul. Vichy has not been collapsed.

I was impatient later that week and reverse engineered the hack for hex control, and fixed the capitals. It was the beginning of the turn, but all I really want for the turn is the capital of Ivory Coast. Thanks for the offer there!

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 1:27:37 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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How can France be completely conquered if the Axis only take Paris? To completely conquer France, one need to conquer France and every minor country France has aligned.
I don't think the Axis did conquer places like French Guyana or all French aligned minors in Africa, did they?

So, you did declare Vichy and all minor countries became controlled by Vichy. This means that Free France (not to be mistaken for France) gets completely conquered. Free France doesn't exist, until Vichy is collapsed by the Axis. At that moment all Vichy minor countries and territories which are not occupied with an Axis land unit will become Free French and Free France gets created.

If the Allies take Paris first and liberate France, France comes back in the game (and not Free France).

So I've tested the Vichy declaration phase and made all minors Vichy. The game processes things correctly. No problems there.
So, next Axis impulse, I've collapsed Vichy. And things were not processed correctly
What's happening is that the game processes all disorganised French ships which are on the map as being subject to capture. This is not correct, since only ships which are forced to rebase because they are now in Axis controlled hexes need to be rolled for. This is the first bug I've encountered, using the beta test version 2.9.3.21:

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 1:32:56 PM

Centuur

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The second bug I encountered was that MWIF processes all disorganised ships in Metropolitan France twice for capture (so. f.e.: the Strassbourg in Nice gets rolled for twice).

After that comes the Rebase overrun units digression. There, one sees that the ships which are not located in France also have to be rebased. This is the third bug (I think that all these bug are related to the first bug. If that gets fixed, the game will probably only force the capture rolls and rebase for the ships in France).

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< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/2/2018 2:00:47 PM >

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 1:37:21 PM

Centuur

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Saved game for the above mentioned bugs:

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 2:12:38 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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Now, I commenced this game towards the next conquest phase. France still holds unto a lot of minor countries (nothing changed). Now I get the fourth bug:

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< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/2/2018 2:15:15 PM >

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/2/2018 2:20:03 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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This message is of course not correct. After this message appears, the game continues with US entry, making French territories neutral and deviding the French Fleet upon the Allies and more of those things which are done when a major power gets completely conquered. Only: the minor countries owned by France stay French...

Conclusion: there are a lot of things going wrong after Vichy is collapsed with a completely conquered Free French...

Saved game for the conquest phase:

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/3/2018 3:29:44 AM

Gar-Dog

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That's a lot of good homework Centuur. You're pushing the game forward!

Just to clarify though, the savegame of my initial post does NOT have a collapsed Vichy - Vichy is still active when the colonies reverted to Axis with no units present!

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/3/2018 12:22:11 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gar-Dog

That's a lot of good homework Centuur. You're pushing the game forward!

Just to clarify though, the savegame of my initial post does NOT have a collapsed Vichy - Vichy is still active when the colonies reverted to Axis with no units present!

Yes, that bug is also still around. Very strange one indeed...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/3/2018 12:29:31 PM >

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/3/2018 12:46:33 PM

Centuur

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If one looks at the main form of your gamesave (before ending the turn), there is no Free France flag visible. Also, there is no Free France in Production Planning too. That is very, very strange with Free France still having a couple of minors under their control. Also, under relations, Free France is not listed as being active. That's very strange...

Something happened before the point where you made this gamesave, causing this. And to investigate this, we need an earlier gamesave at the point before Free France disappeared from the main form...

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< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/3/2018 12:53:21 PM >

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/3/2018 1:52:36 PM

Centuur

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I've reviewed the FAQ on Free France, and I've stumbled upon this one:

Q: Can a completely conquered Free France upon Vichification (17.2) be liberated by
returning a French Minor Country?
A: No, Free France has to be founded as per the Vichification rules. If and when Free
France is created and then immediately conquered, it can be re-created only by
Collapsing Vichy. (...)

So one cannot create Free France by returning a minor country to it. The Allies can only conquer Vichy minor countries according to the rules. This does not happen in the attached gamesave. Instead, the game allows the Allies to liberate these countries. This can never be the case with Vichy controlled minor countries. Those can only be liberated by the Axis...
Also: the question to return territory to France should not be available at this time, according to the above stated ruling.

I believe that this bug is causing the problem mentioned by Gar-Dog. Saved game included.

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< Message edited by Centuur -- 11/3/2018 1:59:54 PM >

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Peter

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RE: 2.9.1.4 Neutral Free France reverts to Germany - 11/4/2018 9:33:41 PM

paulderynck

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Agreed - all related to Post #1 and the bug that either resulted from FF not getting a minor country (or possibly that plus an Allied-conquered Vichy minor being liberated to FF - which should not be allowed if FF was completely conquered).

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 11/4/2018 9:35:09 PM >

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Paul

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Post #: 17