Pace of the game. (PBEM)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Pace of the game. (PBEM)

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Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/16/2018 12:34:56 PM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

I always play like Japan. First 2 months of the game takes me 5 days on average (except for very first turns, they are of course longer).
Why so long? There are several reasons: There are a lot of redeployment of units, supplies and much more. It is necessary to check a lot, to control it manually in each hex.
For example:
1. During an air attack (even invisible) to ground units, they can cancel move mode.
2. Damaged ships when entering in port automatically go to repair mode, but not to one you want to choose.
3. When pilots are transferred from one squadron to another, there is a delay in days. When delay becomes 1 day, they do not enter automatically, but need to be assigned manually every time. (Very uncomfortable)
4. It is necessary to check availability of supply at Bases. Because even with specified amount, it is not preserved, but may increase and even decrease from required.
5. After Naval combat, TFs may change mode or mission.
And much more.

I hope then I will make turns faster when front stabilizes, but so far. I understand that 5 days is too much. Many thanks to creator of the tracker! This program helps a lot in game!
Tell us how much you make a turn in days (real time, along with sleep, food, etc.). How to speed up this process?

Post #: 1

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/16/2018 12:42:51 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

LCU movement tip.

LCU movement in Tracker.

Go to "Alerts" section in Tracker. You can copy all alerts for LCUs (arrived/packed etc) by highlighting them in Tracker by holding SHIFT and left-clicking the alerts you want to highlight. Then CTRL+C the selected alerts and copy them to MS Word or Libre. Thus, you can create a master checklist for LCU movements for the whole war. As LCUs arrive in their destinations, you delete the LCUs from the checklist.

Hope it helps.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 10/16/2018 2:12:14 PM >

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 2

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/16/2018 12:57:13 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline

Yeah it can be pain at first, I have a booklet keep track of movements, headquarters, divisions, etc. I never use the tracker and did just fine without it.

One thing for sure is to write down all those bases in Japan, except for Hokkaido to keep track of supplies, fuel, resources and oils. So you will know what you are running low on or focus on. The logistic system is really weird, kept moving them around unless you are trying to stockpile in that bases. Glad we have that options cause the original WitP doesn't.

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Post #: 3

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/16/2018 2:19:01 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

If you haven't already seen it, here is the link to Alfred's "Logistics 101": http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790

Note that units "in the field" get priority for supplies, so that will cause supplies at a base to fluctuate. Even with stockpiling, the game engine will not let a unit starve if it has a supply path to it.

Also note that setting too many supply draw amounts or stockpiles will break the game engine code governing distribution of supplies "to where they are needed". You should not have to play with supply in Japan's Home Islands unless you plan to load a very big TF and need to have more supply on hand for first day loading. Once loading is started, more supply will automatically flow there.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 4

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/17/2018 7:58:04 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

3. When pilots are transferred from one squadron to another, there is a delay in days. When delay becomes 1 day, they do not enter automatically, but need to be assigned manually every time. (Very uncomfortable)

Don't know if its the best, but here's a method I use. From the 'Intelligence screen' (IIRC) I check the pilots button. Next I go to where it shows those in group mode, these will show what groups to whom those 'one day' pilots belong. Exit the 'Intelligence screen'.

Then click the button that shows the groups that are in the game. They're really two, one for LBA, the other for ship borne. They're found at the top of the screen also, around mid-screen. Scroll to the correct group, click and make the pilot part of the group. Not great, but it helps, at least for me.

quote:

Tell us how much you make a turn in days (real time, along with sleep, food, etc.).

Sleep, pfttt. Who needs sleep.

Food, plenty of places near me deliver.

quote:

How to speed up this process?

The only way I've found is develop a routine, and repetition. Still can only get maybe five turns a week.

_____________________________

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 5

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/17/2018 8:24:51 PM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

3. When pilots are transferred from one squadron to another, there is a delay in days. When delay becomes 1 day, they do not enter automatically, but need to be assigned manually every time. (Very uncomfortable)

Don't know if its the best, but here's a method I use. From the 'Intelligence screen' (IIRC) I check the pilots button. Next I go to where it shows those in group mode, these will show what groups to whom those 'one day' pilots belong. Exit the 'Intelligence screen'.

Then click the button that shows the groups that are in the game. They're really two, one for LBA, the other for ship borne. They're found at the top of the screen also, around mid-screen. Scroll to the correct group, click and make the pilot part of the group. Not great, but it helps, at least for me.

I just click Request Veteran, and there you can sort by days until arrival. But according to manual, those pilots should become active, once necessary. I however feel, that they are always necessary right now :)

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 6

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/18/2018 2:25:54 AM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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The way to speed things up if you are playing the Japanese is to capitulate on day one. Otherwise, figure stuff out then do it.

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 7

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/18/2018 1:14:58 PM

Squamry

Posts: 94
Joined: 2/28/2005
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Do you really need to check everything every turn? For some areas the answer is definitely yes as these are key to current operations but for low risk/rear areas then every few turns should be fine.

I pay a lot of atention to the combat replay as this tells me where I need to focus my efforts. Everywhere else I can skim over.

There is a huge amount of micromanagement available in the game but you don't need to constantly use it. Stuff will carry on fine.

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Post #: 8

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/19/2018 9:18:31 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squamry
There is a huge amount of micromanagement available in the game but you don't need to constantly use it. Stuff will carry on fine.

This.
IMO an important player skill or better call it mindset is to learn to operate on some higher level of abstraction. You can try and do everything "by hand" each turn, controlling every pilot, every LCU replacement arrival, every training increase. Those moments can seem like you are squeezing everything you can from the game. But in fact, those control actions can quickly pile up, wear you out, and distract you from the strategic picture. And given the randomness in the game, these efficiency gimmicks add little to the picture as a whole.

Playing 2+ day turns is a good exercise to train oneself to care less about excessive micromanagement. Worked in my case I guess. Was far from pleasant at first

(in reply to Squamry)

Post #: 9

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 3:22:31 PM

Lokasenna

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How to go faster? Don't sweat the small stuff, or if you do - know that it's costing you time for diminishing returns (getting things "mostly right" is often enough, you don't need to wring every last drop out of everything unless you really do have all the time in the world).

How to go even faster? Move things in big groups. Big convoys, air groups all moving together, etc. LCUs in the same hex set all to march (and then if you have a few going somewhere else, change that destination).

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 10

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 4:11:31 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I always play like Japan. First 2 months of the game takes me 5 days on average (except for very first turns, they are of course longer).
Why so long?

If you are running two months of game (roughly 60 turns) in only 5 real world days assuming you are doing other things like living life in those 5 days...then I think you are probably going very fast.

However, if I misunderstand, which is common, and seek to speed up turns against the AI, then I recommend streamlining the turn to process from the beginning to end with no pauses, and use the program combat reporter to look at each turn and skip watching the turn replay. You can even skip combat reporter and just use in game reports if you like.

Try 2 day turns...work yourself up to 3 or more if you are comfortable.

Prioritize theaters...spending time on critical/active theaters first and backwaters only once a week or even once a month.

Follow the other good advice given in this thread.

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 11

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 6:39:51 PM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

You completely misunderstood my thought.
I never play against AI, this is NOT interesting for me!
I said that for 1 Turn in game (PBEM) it takes me 5 real days (on average). In addition to very first 1-5 Turns, which are naturally longer. And my pace of game takes 5 days in December 1941 - January 1942. After I think that I will perform one Turn faster, perhaps in 4-3 days.

No one answered how much you make one Turn in a real-time (PBEM) game?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 12

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 6:45:33 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

You completely misunderstood my thought.
I never play against AI, this is NOT interesting for me!
I said that for 1 Turn in game (PBEM) it takes me 5 real days (on average). In addition to very first 1-5 Turns, which are naturally longer. And my pace of game takes 5 days in December 1941 - January 1942. After I think that I will perform one Turn faster, perhaps in 4-3 days.

No one answered how much you make one Turn in a real-time (PBEM) game?

I see. I have run the first turn as Japan in as little as five minutes or as long as 10 hours. Generally, I will spend no more than 1 hour (including watching the replay on a turn). If the game goes lazy in late 42 and 43 often I can flip turns in 15 minutes. When the Allied offensive starts to heat up and once into 1944 I can spend 2 hours on a turn although I try to keep it down to 1 hour. Depends if there has been major action or pilot management.

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 13

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 6:53:12 PM

BillBrown

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I strongly think you should get Combat Reporter, found here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2456864

It does not provide any more information than the program does, but it does organize it to be more easily accessed.

I have only played the Allies in PBEM, and some turns I do in 20-30 minutes, and others take a couple of hours to do, occasionally even more time is needed. I do also tend to spend some time when I do not have a turn available to look around and make notes on things I want to do in the future.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 10/22/2018 6:55:42 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 14

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 7:49:04 PM

dasboot1960

Posts: 389
Joined: 8/2/2009
From: St Augustine, Florida
Status: offline

I'm just into Feb 42 playing first time as Japanese. My first turn was easily 100+ hours of real time, the largest single chunk of that time went to identifying merchant routes, tasking ships for those routes and getting them moving, probably next longest was just trying to get an overview of what I had, where they were historically targeted, and getting them moving. Notice how I did not mention consideration of strategic direction...Follow on turns generally go 4-6 hours now, but some have gotten to 10+ hours particularly when having to allocate more merchant shipping or tracking aircraft and engine production runs. I have made many mistakes without a recent save and had to start the turn over. I highly recommend saving often. Much better to have than have not. My quickest turn around so far has been perhaps 2 hour on 2-3 turns where most everything was already in motion. I am playing one day turns.

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Post #: 15

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 7:49:39 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

You completely misunderstood my thought.
I never play against AI, this is NOT interesting for me!
I said that for 1 Turn in game (PBEM) it takes me 5 real days (on average). In addition to very first 1-5 Turns, which are naturally longer. And my pace of game takes 5 days in December 1941 - January 1942. After I think that I will perform one Turn faster, perhaps in 4-3 days.

No one answered how much you make one Turn in a real-time (PBEM) game?

Anywhere between 3 minutes and 2 hours. Not including time watching the replay (which can vary from 2 minutes to 15 minutes).

I've literally done two turns for the same game within 30 minutes on some occasions, because my opponent also sent one back within 20 minutes.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 10/22/2018 7:50:24 PM >

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 16

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/22/2018 10:19:20 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

No one answered how much you make one Turn in a real-time (PBEM) game?

1-2 hours after the initial chaos of the first month or two dies down. What others have said is true: you've got to impose some turn discipline on yourself to avoid checking everything all the time.

As a Japanese player, for example, you can set your training groups in the home islands / Manchuko and elsewhere to automatically train pilots. They need only be checked / 'harvested' once a month or so. CS auto convoy routes need not be checked daily. Same with most LCUs away from the front lines.

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Post #: 17

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/23/2018 6:57:02 AM

Barb

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From: Bratislava, Slovakia
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Usually about 1,5 hour (including replay) for the small intensity turn up to 3 hours with high-intensity or pilot training attendance :)

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Post #: 18

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/23/2018 9:15:26 AM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

I don't use CS auto convoy, this is wrong. It is necessary to constantly control route of convoys, attacks of enemy submarines. And much more. I'm more serious about game!

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 19

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/23/2018 11:54:56 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75
I don't use CS auto convoy, this is wrong. It is necessary to constantly control route of convoys, attacks of enemy submarines. And much more. I'm more serious about game!

Well, there lies your problem. It is not necessary to constantly control everything

E.g. CS convoys can run perfectly fine until there is a sub attack. Then you just change their waypoints and they continue being CS convoys. Or you saturate their route with ASW TFs to fend off subs.

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 20

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/23/2018 8:29:27 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I don't use CS auto convoy, this is wrong.

Your simultaneous use of two very different methodologies for convoy automation suggests that you may be conflating / confusing the two. There are (IMO) issues with the auto convoy system. Some, probably relatively few, players use them in some backwater areas and swear by them. Others, probably most, say it's still buggy and unnecessary.

For those that eschew the auto convoy system, "CS" convoys can fill the gap and automate convoys for routine matters. CS convoys are an entirely different animal than auto convoy and should not be confused.

But if you're telling me that you *MUST* check on each and every resource convoy you have running between Korea and Honshu, Hokkaido and Honshu and Sakhalin and Hokkaido *EVERY DAY* then I disagree. You can do quite well without such overanalysis and spend your time more productively either (gasp) in real life matters or elsewhere in the game.

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Post #: 21

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/25/2018 3:18:45 PM

Andav

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I have been playing by email since the UV days so I have a turn or two under my belt.

The first couple of weeks of the war take a long time each turn. Probably 2 hours at least. This is mainly to set everything up. During expansion (later Dec 41 - Spring of 42), I will spend 1-2 hours on a turn including replay. Once things are rolling, it can be done in a little as 30 minutes including replay. Usually it takes 45 minutes to an hour. Turns just before the end of the month and just after the beginning of the month take longer because I review production and pilot training at this time. When the Allied player becomes more active, turns will take more time as air unit specifically need to be managed more aggressively. I guess I have played enough turns to have a feel for what needs to be checked daily and what can ride a few turns without checking.

Tracker also helps a lot. It lets you know when things arrive places and when things build and many other useful items all in one place.

For me, this game is a fun diversion from real life. It is not another job so I don't let it consume too much time. That being said, if you enjoy spending that much time reviewing a turn and your opponent is good with the pace of the game, then enjoy yourself and take the time you feel you need. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Wa

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 22

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/25/2018 10:19:19 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

For me, this game is a fun diversion from real life. It is not another job so I don't let it consume too much time.

Well I'm retired now, so it is my 'job'.

And you know what they say about having a 'job' you love.

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Post #: 23

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 1:32:30 AM

asurob

Posts: 37
Joined: 4/22/2000
From: Tempe, Arizona
Status: offline

When I have a good fast place opponent, I can average 5 to 7 turns a day. Once you get past that first turn...honestly..it's all about book keeping and I have a system after more then a decade of wrestling with this monster.

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Post #: 24

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 8:32:03 AM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

I heard about such fast players, but I don't believe. Of course you can press end of turn button for 1 second. BUT! I doubt that everything can be completely monitored and checked. Obviously, player will make a lot of mistakes or even disregard them altogether.
My fastest opponent made 1 turn per day (sometimes longer). All other opponents in one turn 2-3 per day (sometimes longer).
Most players in a game are adults who have work, family, children, and other hobbies. Unable to sit in game 24 hours and 7 days a week.
Such is the reality of life!

(in reply to asurob)

Post #: 25

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 9:28:43 AM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

- Conan, what is best in life?
- To throw the kitchen sink, use Tracker, augment aircraft fatcories to 30 size and aim for the Auto-victory.

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 26

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 9:39:32 AM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

I don't play against AI, never!
And I don't play for Auto-Victory.
This is the most stupid in game!

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 27

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 11:56:46 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I don't play against AI, never!
And I don't play for Auto-Victory.
This is the most stupid in game!

It is good to plan to play out the game to "the end", whatever that may be, but the Auto-Victory proponents will tell you that it forces the Allied player to be more active sooner and forces Japan to defend more forward in 1943-44. Neither side can afford to wait for superiority or consolidation of their perimeter before challenging the other.

For PBEM players that makes a more interesting game - no Allied "Sir Robin" withdrawal in 1942 and no Japanese early withdrawal from their conquests to make a fortified ring around the home islands.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 28

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/29/2018 12:39:27 PM

Edward75

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline

I absolutely agree that player should not allow until Auto-victory! You need to resist, play more actively! But it is not always possible for someone. I just don't want to stop game because of this, but I need to play further. Allies have good replenishment in ships, aircraft and troops. Have every chance of winning in Tokyo Bay!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 29

RE: Pace of the game. (PBEM) - 10/30/2018 7:05:22 AM

asurob

Posts: 37
Joined: 4/22/2000
From: Tempe, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I heard about such fast players, but I don't believe. Of course you can press end of turn button for 1 second. BUT! I doubt that everything can be completely monitored and checked. Obviously, player will make a lot of mistakes or even disregard them altogether.
My fastest opponent made 1 turn per day (sometimes longer). All other opponents in one turn 2-3 per day (sometimes longer).
Most players in a game are adults who have work, family, children, and other hobbies. Unable to sit in game 24 hours and 7 days a week.
Such is the reality of life!

Nah. I check everything every turn. Nothing misses my gaze. I'm a 55-year-old guy with a job in athletics so I work a lot of hours and had 3 kids (1 in college 2 others now out being real people). The point is...yeah there is a lot of detail in this game...but if you are organized...you can bang through the turns at a pretty rapid rate. I also almost always play the Japanese...have for more then a decade. My current opponent and I get through 3 to 5 turns a night....and usually only stop when he has to hit the hay (we are on opposite coasts). It's all about finding a good opponent.

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Carrierbane. I lose more flattops in a week then most players do in a year.

(in reply to Edward75)

Post #: 30