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Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/6/2018 2:18:21 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		So, I'm in October 1943 as Stock 1 Japan vs AI game in latest beta. The world is almost conquered so I hardly ever recruit new pilots. Then I see something interesting in the Replacements link of the airgroups and then in the Pilot replacements window:



Yeah, that's right - IJN pilot schools apparently have discovered some new way of teaching, allowing recruits to graduate with a whopping 61xp average. Also look at how their xp progresses through stages. Sheesh!
The only 2 ways where I see this game to be different from a regular one is that
1) I've drawn a lot of IJN recruits in the first month of the war into all those massively resized training groups (that was a no-holds-barred world domination game). I think I completely emptied the last (10-12) class of school and took a chunk out of the 3rd (7-9) class.
2) I have massive IJN TRACOM (300+ pilots there). IJA one is 100+

I remember some talks about pilot xp bugs on the forums, but no hard evidence AFAIR, and not in the latest beta for sure. I have about 5k pilots on map and 2500 lost, Allies have >1k on map and about 10k lost so it does not look like the result of some pilot database overflow error

Unfortunately I do not have earlier saves or tracker info to check the history of the case. It probably started in the last couple months cause before that I still filled out training groups regularly and would definitely spot that stuff

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< Message edited by GetAssista -- 11/6/2018 2:37:07 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/6/2018 2:43:56 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Could those pilots be from a naval air group disbanded three months ago? I always thought when pilots "went to the pools" that they would just be in the General Reserve pool, not back to the training pool.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 2
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/6/2018 3:12:45 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Could those pilots be from a naval air group disbanded three months ago? I always thought when pilots "went to the pools" that they would just be in the General Reserve pool, not back to the training pool.

Since you always have to disband airgroups manually and my practice is always to put the pilots into reserve pool manually before hitting the disband button it means that all pilots that have ever made their way on map will stay either on map or in the reserve pool.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 3
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/6/2018 3:43:41 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Yes, when units are disbanded and pilots go to the pools, that means the general reserve pools.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 4
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/6/2018 4:56:41 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

2) I have massive IJN TRACOM (300+ pilots there).


This is what I believe to be the culprit. I hope this is not the case, but...

AFAIK its not supposed to work that way. I recall one other player mentioning the anomaly. It seemed to begin around the time that MichealM got called away, so there was no way to see what happened. I'm not even sure if its in the latest official patch, the beta, or both.

Either way its not good. On thing I've done in my latest AI game is to keep my TRACOM pilot numbers low. So far (Mar '43), so good. I'll attempt to increase the numbers as I go to see what happens.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 5
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/7/2018 6:36:46 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Similar in my PBEM (2/44 currently). With about 250 IJN pilots in the TRACOM the raw recruits are drawn from "trained replacement" pools at approx 50-55 exp (with relevant skills in the same range). Makes it bit harder to max relevant skills or train new ones. The Army with about 180 TRACOM pilots is bit lagging - "trained replacements" are being drawn at approx 30-35 exp.

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(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 6
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/7/2018 8:50:08 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

are being drawn at approx 30-35 exp.


That's normal.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 7
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/7/2018 8:50:54 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

raw recruits are drawn from "trained replacement" pools at approx 50-55 exp


That's high.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/8/2018 12:33:15 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

So, I'm in October 1943 as Stock 1 Japan vs AI game in latest beta. The world is almost conquered so I hardly ever recruit new pilots. Then I see something interesting in the Replacements link of the airgroups and then in the Pilot replacements window:



Yeah, that's right - IJN pilot schools apparently have discovered some new way of teaching, allowing recruits to graduate with a whopping 61xp average. Also look at how their xp progresses through stages. Sheesh!
The only 2 ways where I see this game to be different from a regular one is that
1) I've drawn a lot of IJN recruits in the first month of the war into all those massively resized training groups (that was a no-holds-barred world domination game). I think I completely emptied the last (10-12) class of school and took a chunk out of the 3rd (7-9) class.
2) I have massive IJN TRACOM (300+ pilots there). IJA one is 100+

I remember some talks about pilot xp bugs on the forums, but no hard evidence AFAIR, and not in the latest beta for sure. I have about 5k pilots on map and 2500 lost, Allies have >1k on map and about 10k lost so it does not look like the result of some pilot database overflow error

Unfortunately I do not have earlier saves or tracker info to check the history of the case. It probably started in the last couple months cause before that I still filled out training groups regularly and would definitely spot that stuff

Whole school timeline support this 61 (IJN have double experience to IJA at all classes), so it seems to be database setting. However, two last periods have strangely low number of pilots, which may result from this massive number at TRACOM.

But I recall, some player reported recently, that his IJA recruits were accelerated, and he had only IJN pilots in TRACOM, so they are probably shared.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 9
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/8/2018 10:02:53 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		They (TRACOM) aren't shared between services/nations.

The "school timeline" does support the average XP of the replacement pool, in that the top levels of the school have high experience levels.

I can't help but conclude that this has something to do with GA pulling all of the pilots out of the top level(s), as he stated. It's the Occam's Razor explanation. TRACOM wouldn't have this effect, either.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 10
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/9/2018 8:25:59 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Whole school timeline support this 61 (IJN have double experience to IJA at all classes)


I see that, but to me its not WAD. I've come across nothing that suggests that pilot training should advance experience based on pilots being in the TRACOM. AFAIK the only advantage one should get from this is the advancement of some pilots through the training cycle.

IOW, experience levels through the training cycle (12 months) are set at an average, that should not be altered.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/9/2018 9:33:51 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Whole school timeline support this 61 (IJN have double experience to IJA at all classes)


I see that, but to me its not WAD. I've come across nothing that suggests that pilot training should advance experience based on pilots being in the TRACOM. AFAIK the only advantage one should get from this is the advancement of some pilots through the training cycle.

That is also my understanding, but how there can be only 199 pilots in 7-9 month period? That is less, than half of monthly replacement of fresh recruits.

quote:

IOW, experience levels through the training cycle (12 months) are set at an average, that should not be altered.

In editor you can set separate, different exp values for every year. That's why I think it may be database (or error in database).

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 12
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/10/2018 3:25:13 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor
In editor you can set separate, different exp values for every year. That's why I think it may be database (or error in database).

Stock 1 scenario has 35xp graduation average for both IJNAF and IJAF written in the scenario data.
And yes, too few pilots in the 7-9 stage looks suspicious, it cannot happen like this by itself.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 13
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/10/2018 3:36:33 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I have seen the in-school experience levels change over the course of the game. They go down, unlike the stairs in Ghostbusters.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 14
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/10/2018 7:30:41 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I have seen the in-school experience levels change over the course of the game. They go down, unlike the stairs in Ghostbusters.

Different scenarios have recruit xp set differently. In some, Jap xp goes down in later years to reflect the reality of Japanese pilot schools rushing the training.

In stock 1 it is set at 35 xp all the way

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 15
RE: Jap pilot recruits experience skyrockets - 11/13/2018 5:44:02 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

That is also my understanding, but how there can be only 199 pilots in 7-9 month period? That is less, than half of monthly replacement of fresh recruits.


TRACOM advancements? A bit unusual to be so 'lopsided', but not impossible. I think I have one period somewhat 'lopsided' in my game, but not that much. I'll have to check. It may be some time though as I've taken a break form the game.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 16
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