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Multiplayer??? - 11/11/2018 10:58:23 PM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

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Status: offline 		Will be there any kind of MP?
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RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/11/2018 11:39:11 PM   
Veitikka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sorrow_Knight

Will be there any kind of MP?


No plans for it.


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RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 4:43:54 AM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

No plans for it.



And why? I know, that you are very proud with AI in Armored Brigade... but it is much more interesting, when there is alive opponent against you. than AI whatever advanced it is.

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Post #: 3
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 6:11:01 AM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Why C:MANO or Graviteam Tactics don't have multiplayer? Is it because the developers are incompetent or nasty? It can be hard to explain to someone who's not a software developer why I haven't used my time to make an application that communicates in real-time over the Web with other client systems. It's as simple as clicking a checkbox to enable the feature, right? Not quite like that, especially if the piece of software hasn't been built with multiplayer in mind since the start. I've been coding this game alone for 14 years without getting any money for it, and so far there's been enough tasks even without the multiplayer aspect.


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RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 6:37:09 AM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/11/2018
Status: offline 		Please, don`t be so offensive. I can realise, that coding is not simple task, especially for one person. But... well... I just want to say, that... it is not good for CMANO ar Graviteam games that there is not MP at all, i dont want to say, that devs are nasty or something else like that, but after couple dozens of hours in game even very average wargame player like me will be able to beat AI quite easy and with minimal loses (your AI looks more advanced, so I should think about couple of days, but result against AI only will be the same- it would be beaten and there will be less interest to play the game). I don`t want to blame you here, but... think about MP in your game, it will greatly expand its replayability.

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RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 6:37:24 AM   
JiminyJickers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sorrow_Knight

Will be there any kind of MP?


No plans for it.



Thank you for focussing on single player first and foremost. I'm really excited for this game.

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Post #: 6
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 7:26:43 AM   
Searry

 

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Joined: 1/24/2014
Status: offline 		I hope multiplayer will be #1 thing you focus on after release. That will be the real seller for me.

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RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 9:38:19 AM   
CSO_Talorgan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

Thank you for focussing on single player first and foremost. I'm really excited for this game.


+1

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Post #: 8
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 11:23:19 AM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Multiplayer for me is a bonus but an AI you can leave alone without a continuous babysitting is basic in a real time wargame.

I prefer improve AI, add some extra features, improve UI and official expansion in armies-periods and when game is solid for solo players move to multiplayer area.

In the end in my case if i plan play multiplayer i am going to do it in turns not real time.

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Post #: 9
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 11:29:11 AM   
varangy


Posts: 198
Joined: 11/1/2018
Status: offline 		Theres not only real time online battle, you can play PBEM as well and you dont have to babysit. This is the mode I prefer.

We already have the turns, just need to find a solution about storing the tings and happenings.

CM did it, I played against other guys in PBEM and it was great.

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Post #: 10
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 12:17:30 PM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Multiplayer for me is a bonus but an AI you can leave alone without a continuous babysitting is basic in a real time wargame.

For me, playing against AI in any kind of wargame is nothing more than extended tutorial mode. Real human as opponent is the only real challenge that you could meet, and no AI able to be any challenging... at least for any long time.

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Post #: 11
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 12:46:27 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Well, is a question of priorities, i rare times play multi, not because i dislike it, simple is a question of timing... if wargame is not turn based is practically impossible play VS a human, i prefer PBEM because you play when you want-can but problem is you could be forced to leave battle in the middle this is why i am more in single player, i dont like leave a battle in the middle.

Play VS humans is more and offer more situations and i think game could benefict when receive multiplayer BUT a good tactical AI and other game improvements (UI, new features, add missing nations) for me are first in my list.

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Post #: 12
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 1:40:01 PM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Just out of curiosity... can you name real-time hardcore wargames that have an active multiplayer scene?


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Post #: 13
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 2:28:03 PM   
A Canadian Cat


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Status: offline 		Combat Mission is the closest - it has very little real time multi player the majority of its head to head play is turn based (PBEM - but not actually using email). There are several sites where you can find opponents and a thriving community of people playing against each other.

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Post #: 14
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 3:08:09 PM   
varangy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: A Canadian Cat

Combat Mission is the closest - it has very little real time multi player the majority of its head to head play is turn based (PBEM - but not actually using email). There are several sites where you can find opponents and a thriving community of people playing against each other.



Yeah, CM

< Message edited by varangy -- 11/12/2018 3:09:11 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 3:21:10 PM   
Veitikka


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Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		So they're actually not playing it in the real-time mode? In that case it doesn't count. Any other games?


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Post #: 16
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 3:31:18 PM   
varangy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

So they're actually not playing it in the real-time mode? In that case it doesn't count. Any other games?



In CM you can choose between pbem and real time. While the majority is playing pbem, some are playing real time as well.

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Post #: 17
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 3:31:40 PM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

Just out of curiosity... can you name real-time hardcore wargames that have an active multiplayer scene?


Close Combat and Combat Mission series. Both are hardcore wargames, both are real-time and both have multiplayer. CMANO and Graviteam Tactics, you’ve mention are good games, and I have both. But I didn’t play any of it for a long time already, Why? I played both CMANO and GTT untill I learned how to play, and then untill I won all scenarios couple of times, and then it become uninteresting just because I know what where and when AI will do and how to counter it, or in witch situation just to ignore or avoid its forces. On the other hand I’ve played thousands of hours in Combat Mission: Black Sea in multiplayer games.


< Message edited by Sorrow_Knight -- 11/12/2018 3:47:29 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 3:48:22 PM   
nikolas93TS


Posts: 619
Joined: 2/24/2017
Status: offline 		The issue is that our turn based system is quite a simple system which I tend to describe as an essentially scripted auto-pause feature. By all intents and purposes it is our regular real-time engine under the hood, hence the equal difficulty in making turns re-playable and adding multiplayer. It was a single-player architecture from Day 1. While not an impossible feat, it would require a really significant codding effort. When I say significant, I think that probably teaching AI to use advanced combat techniques as hammer-and-anvil attacks or better flanking tactics without scripts would be likely faster and simpler to add.

Of course I would like multiplayer too, but given the current game condition I think adding multiplayer is something better suited for a hypothetical Armored Brigade 2, which would likely involve structural changes to the core engine and framework. That would also solve the issue of the client base, assuming single-player game proves itself on market. It is a fact that the silent majority of players in this particular gaming niche are still single-player only (as much as 90% of the game time), and the number of players we are likely to get with multiplayer simply isn't there to support it yet. That is likely why you have even big titles as C:MANO and Graviteam Tactics being single player.

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Post #: 19
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 4:09:34 PM   
Sorrow_Knight

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS
Of course I would like multiplayer too, but given the current game condition I think adding multiplayer is something better suited for a hypothetical Armored Brigade 2, which would likely involve structural changes to the core engine and framework.

Ok... for me in person, this mean that i just will wait untill AB2, or DLC for AB1 will be released with multiplayer, and not to buy AB1 at it`s release date. Singleplayer only game is interesting in first, maximum third time, and after that will just lay untouched for years. And whatever you will be able to teach AI it will not be able to replace real human as opponent.

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Post #: 20
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 4:24:08 PM   
Hghx-0

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/20/2018
Status: offline 		Yeah.. very sad that the game won't have a multiplayer, still i like your game even without it.

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Post #: 21
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 4:35:54 PM   
varangy


Posts: 198
Joined: 11/1/2018
Status: offline 		Lets hope you get enough money

Anyway with or without I will buy AB on release day

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Post #: 22
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 5:52:59 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Well, at least wait release AB to announce AB2

For me no multiplayer is not critical EVEN when if is possible add it at least for the turn based mode i could use it... or not

Talking about turns... video with turn based mode preview??? thanks.

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Post #: 23
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/12/2018 11:26:32 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
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quote:

I've been coding this game alone for 14 years without getting any money for it


I am not going near this product with an attitude like that. Everyone is asking polite questions. In fact, this has been the most interesting and forward looking of the Matrix forums until the developer's statement quoted above. Talk about ruining a product launch. Dude, just be quiet, the die is cast.

Respectfully,

Kevin

< Message edited by kevinkin -- 11/12/2018 11:40:15 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 12:06:31 AM   
nikolas93TS


Posts: 619
Joined: 2/24/2017
Status: offline 		I don't see nothing rude in that particular statement: it is a fact that underlines how much was invested in this project, and how hard it was; and if we haven't introduced multiplayer it is not because any of us is a jerk.

Each member of the development team has started contributing to this game when it was free: we sacrificed countless days, weeks and months to provide contents to the community for a whole decade. I think we deserve some respect for that.

P.S. Veitikka is a Finn. They speak frankly by nature.

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Post #: 25
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 12:10:59 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Glad you are concentrating on a good single-player game rather than an okay SP/MP game. In 30 years playing digital games, never really got hooked on MP. The games always started off great, but then the lobbies or the "friends" disappeared. There are enough MMO games on Steam anyway.

However, attempting some type of PBEM file swapping option would be fair to that player base. Also, Slitherine's PBEM++ system for Fields of Glory II, etc., is a great system and a breeze to use. But understand this game is not designed for PBEM++ compatibility.

But for this game especially, there are so many options and ways to change-up the AI opponent, I don't think it will get too boring. Of course, I am blessed with being a lousy player, so most AIs are challenging to me


quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS

I don't see nothing rude in that particular statement: it is a fact that underlines how much was invested in this project, and how hard it was; and if we haven't introduced multiplayer it is not because any of us is a jerk.

Each member of the development team has started contributing to this game when it was free: we sacrificed countless days, weeks and months to provide contents to the community for a whole decade. I think we deserve some respect for that.

P.S. Veitikka is a Finn. They speak frankly by nature.


As far as the questionable criticism of the Developer, I can write up a long list of Matrix developers who have released and then completely abandoned their projects. Thankfully, they are still in the minority. Matrix/Slitherine still has the best group of core devs anywhere. However, I know of no Matrix developer who worked 14 years on his own and offered a free (and good) game before releasing. Except for maybe Peter who designed TotH!

< Message edited by Rosseau -- 11/13/2018 12:23:11 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 12:40:32 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I did not say the statement was rude. I was saying this is a bizarre way to launch a product. The buying public could care less about "we sacrificed countless days, weeks and months to provide contents to the community". The buying public wants pros ... We are on your side. Don't be so sensitive. Veitikka is in a postilion to take folk's hard earned money. Will he run away with it after 14 years? ... probably. Especially after getting raped by Steam. 14 years in the making and there is no way to PBEM? Silly. Just Silly.

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Post #: 27
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 1:22:10 AM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
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From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

I did not say the statement was rude. I was saying this is a bizarre way to launch a product. The buying public could care less about "we sacrificed countless days, weeks and months to provide contents to the community".


I'm just stating facts. Some people see this game as "another product made by a big wargame publisher", but this has been made by our small team with zero budget. This is not a standardized entertainment package. We've just made a game that we like to play.

quote:



14 years in the making and there is no way to PBEM? Silly. Just Silly.


Now here it is again. I don't play PBEM games, so lack of the feature doesn't bother me. If you desperately want PBEM then perhaps this is not the game for you, but there's a pile of other features that we've been honing over the years.


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Post #: 28
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 1:57:50 AM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
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Status: offline 		I wish you all the luck in the world.

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Post #: 29
RE: Multiplayer??? - 11/13/2018 2:32:09 AM   
Sniper31


Posts: 132
Joined: 9/15/2015
Status: offline 		The wargamer population sure can be hostile when they are hiding behind the curtain of anonymity that is the Internet. Some of you need to grow up and be mature. There is no need to disrespect the developers like has been going on in this thread. They are developing a game out of their enjoyment of the hobby. If you want to be critical, then provide constructive, well mannered criticism and maybe wait until AFTER the game has been released and people have played it. Wow, people just really suck sometimes.

I am looking forward to seeing how AB turns out once I get my hands on it, and I have no problem with the developers making a game they way they envisioned...after all, it's their game. And last I checked, no gamer has been forced to purchase a game from Matrix, or any other video game developer.

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