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Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discuss...

 
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Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discuss... - 11/18/2018 1:29:40 PM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		As we know the standard edition now has some problems.such as the database cannot change by user(I think it may unreasonable because there are many mistakes in weapon data, offical side haven't got time to change such a huge base,but it can do by players). And we lack mutilplayer mode which will increase many possibility for us if we can connect and play with others. How can company release a edition with more professional function in the limited of do not weaken secruity of gov/miltary use
Post #: 1
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/18/2018 3:32:21 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I'm not a dev but a quick response:

1) Neither one of those issues is a problem; and

2) Easily

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(in reply to wayne97)
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RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/21/2018 7:31:28 AM   
rmunie0613

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 1/2/2018
Status: offline 		I do not believe there are "...many mistakes in weapon data..." but if there is verifiable proof of some the devs do change it.
Verifiable proof of course being the key...not "My plane is supposed to have a warp speed..."

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 3
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/21/2018 7:42:40 AM   
SakiNoE

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 11/15/2018
Status: offline 		Not a dev either but I think I can address some of this

quote:

such as the database cannot change by user

This is due to problems that date back to Harpoon 3 regarding community divisions due to DB editing. To address your point in MP, this is reportedly in the works for general use, when it releases is as of yet unknown. I should note though, allowing the players to edit a global database in a game with any sort of MP sounds like a recipe for disaster.

(in reply to wayne97)
Post #: 4
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/21/2018 1:42:42 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline 		I know this not fault of devs but modern DB updates very slows last year. Perhaps DB edit capability fix this issue? Harpoon copy bozo gone so maybe not worry so much anymore and not getting update is much worse in my opinion. There are request on forum now year maybe older not fulfilled. Again not saying Devs are wrong for not doing but maybe DB edit solution to whole thing.

(in reply to SakiNoE)
Post #: 5
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/21/2018 10:43:07 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

... Harpoon copy bozo gone so maybe not worry so much anymore and not getting update is much worse in my opinion.


Not quite sure what that bozo part means, however, database editing would be a step back to the worst days of Harpoon. We REALLY don't want to go back there. Really don't.

If there is to be a multiplayer option, then database editing would have to be completely off limits, otherwise there'd be no possibility of playing against a live opponent. Imagine how the game might react with say, a target having different defense capabilities on your computer, compared to your opponent's. Do you check the entirety of each other's databases and then decide which you will use? Or argue about who is right? Oh, gee, there we are back to Harpoon again :-) Sort of.

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Post #: 6
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/23/2018 8:40:44 PM   
kritter

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 12/3/2007
Status: offline 		It would be nice to at least have the ability to edit the database in single player mode or at least don't stop
people from doing it who have the capabilities to do so. Or have a separate file name to use to edit the database
so you know which database people are using and the editable one can't play multiplayer. There are lots of ways
to solve the simple problems and still let people have at least one editable database.

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 7
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/24/2018 3:35:02 PM   
orca

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 11/6/2013
Status: offline 		Perhaps allow database editing that is saved specific to a scenario. This is is essentially what is done now with the current method of editing units (adding mounts, sensors, etc). The game would continue to always have a default official database that is maintained by the developers. The database changes would only work with a specific scenario so database incompatibility would not be an issue- players would use the same DB if playing the same scenario. Maybe also have a way of saving these user DB changes to be imported into other scenarios (similar to current changes with .ini files). The altered DB would need to be displayed played in a clear way for scenario users. I would definitely pay and suspect many others would pay for DB editing. I am not knowledgeable about the DB issues mentioned with harpoon but understand there are legitimate concerns and respect any decision the developers make on this.

< Message edited by orca -- 11/24/2018 3:39:07 PM >

(in reply to kritter)
Post #: 8
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/24/2018 6:02:14 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ultradave


quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

... Harpoon copy bozo gone so maybe not worry so much anymore and not getting update is much worse in my opinion.


Not quite sure what that bozo part means, however, database editing would be a step back to the worst days of Harpoon. We REALLY don't want to go back there. Really don't.

If there is to be a multiplayer option, then database editing would have to be completely off limits, otherwise there'd be no possibility of playing against a live opponent. Imagine how the game might react with say, a target having different defense capabilities on your computer, compared to your opponent's. Do you check the entirety of each other's databases and then decide which you will use? Or argue about who is right? Oh, gee, there we are back to Harpoon again :-) Sort of.


I think you need to let Harpoon go its over. CMANO here now, what counts.

Problem to be solve is slow db update. If user db edit no good ok, how abouts faster updates or allocate more time resource to. CWDB updates have been regular, fine. DB3K updates very sparse since Bundy retires. Not sure if Mr. Emsoys still do. Anybodies? Time to fill position and get works done please. Not demanding, just asking as customer.

That sound ok Superdave? Could you perhaps help me encourage get more updates done if possible so we don't have to have editor. You make sound like important guy so maybe help us?

BD


(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 9
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/24/2018 6:03:38 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orca

Perhaps allow database editing that is saved specific to a scenario. This is is essentially what is done now with the current method of editing units (adding mounts, sensors, etc). The game would continue to always have a default official database that is maintained by the developers. The database changes would only work with a specific scenario so database incompatibility would not be an issue- players would use the same DB if playing the same scenario. Maybe also have a way of saving these user DB changes to be imported into other scenarios (similar to current changes with .ini files). The altered DB would need to be displayed played in a clear way for scenario users. I would definitely pay and suspect many others would pay for DB editing. I am not knowledgeable about the DB issues mentioned with harpoon but understand there are legitimate concerns and respect any decision the developers make on this.


I know you put in tons of request so very valid input. I agree with this methods too. Why not devs? Dave?

(in reply to orca)
Post #: 10
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/24/2018 7:04:16 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes


I think you need to let Harpoon go its over. CMANO here now, what counts.

Problem to be solve is slow db update. If user db edit no good ok, how abouts faster updates or allocate more time resource to. CWDB updates have been regular, fine. DB3K updates very sparse since Bundy retires. Not sure if Mr. Emsoys still do. Anybodies? Time to fill position and get works done please. Not demanding, just asking as customer.

That sound ok Superdave? Could you perhaps help me encourage get more updates done if possible so we don't have to have editor. You make sound like important guy so maybe help us?

BD




Believe me, I let Harpoon go a long time ago.

Important? No, not me. Not at all. I have no influence at all with the developers. Don't even know them except by what they say on here. I'm just a user like you. Sometimes I try to help people with their questions if it's in an area I'm pretty familiar with.

Carry on, gents.

< Message edited by ultradave -- 11/24/2018 7:09:32 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/24/2018 8:25:49 PM   
TheOttoman

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 12/14/2017
Status: offline 		It sounds like one of the biggest disconnects here is with the database, and the updates.

If the update request mechanism were changed from what it is now - a huge thread on the board, to perhaps something like a web form that would deliver to the devs the specific change requested in a format that could be extrapolated out to a SQL statement, along with the requisite proof it might make it easier for them to schedule the process change on a cycle. I say this without knowing how much time currently it takes to process these changes, or more importantly what those changes cost in terms of dev work that isn't done.


I think that many of us would agree that having the users gain direct access to the database is more bad than good, and building out new hooks to allow for user customization, while may solve some user's issues could be just as problematic, and more importantly, would require a code change that would have to be scheduled behind all of the changes on the cycle, or force other developments to be cancelled or postponed. I don't think that there is necessarily an issue with the software, it's more an issue with how the developers process the change requests.

(in reply to wayne97)
Post #: 12
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/25/2018 5:26:58 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		One of the problems with user customization is that it can break the code causing devs to go looking for an issue that it is value-driven.
The code is designed and written to work for a aet of values that give an expected result. Changing the values can then cause the code that works 99% of the time to give strange results. The devs could then waste time trying to figure out whats wrong without realizing the user has inputed their own view of the values.
I have had this happen a few times to me while working on WITP:AE where the DB values can be customized by the players to create new scenarios. The end result being that the user often needed to keep tweaking the values to get the expected result - I wasn't going to change the code to use their values to get the expected result as that would break all existing working scenarios.

< Message edited by michaelm75au -- 11/25/2018 5:27:31 AM >

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RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 11/25/2018 7:02:07 AM   
morphin

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Switzerland
Status: offline 		Yes Michael

But imagine you can hinder this quite easily (Signing the Database for example, Only singed database are supported, or with non signed database there is a a remark on the state bar..... So a lot of possibilites). It is always an trade off and maybe some time in future there will be an opportunity to change it...

Andy

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 14
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 3:51:51 AM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		Oh,yes. I recently found a tool to change the database. I just think that it may be more convenient if official can creat a easily used way such as MOD.

(in reply to morphin)
Post #: 15
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 4:04:44 AM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		Actually, I found a tool that can change the database. However, my view is that maybe a standardized tool is better. In such a relatively professional military game,some of the users have a lot of energy and resources to update the weapons data. A standard tool means the update (change) can apply to others( just by mod like scenario) .it is also convenient for dev to update the database with the third part contribution. In a word, a open community can help make the game better.

(in reply to TheOttoman)
Post #: 16
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 4:10:37 AM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		Maybe we can separate the official scenario with custom change? It is easily for simulator dev. Many game use the way to trade off between official and customer. It is especially important for a game which just has small number players such as CMANO and make the lifetime of the game larger

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 17
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 4:15:07 AM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		I really agree with your idea. As a single player simulator , a fully access to update and creat new things even new functions is sometimes of great importance

(in reply to kritter)
Post #: 18
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 4:19:15 AM   
wayne97

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/1/2018
Status: offline 		What’s about multiplayer mode? It is a very important function and can increase the competition of game( combat with real man maybe much more interesting than play with AI)

(in reply to wayne97)
Post #: 19
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 8:30:22 PM   
rbsj

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/4/2018
From: Portugal
Status: offline 		Dear community,

I bought the game and dlc from Steam.

I register here an account only to say this, for me, the only thing trully and deeply missing is the ability to edit the database. I have already seen all the arguments presented here and in the steam foruns, but I think this forum is much better. For the argument of the Database Nightmare of multiple versions simply doesn't work. I love this game and is amazing a true simulation but the Database of this game is smaller than the database of the game Football Manager 2018. And in the game football manager 2018 we can edit the database and people share lot's of mods, and edited competions, and things similar to "scenarios" with different databases and everyone knows how to do it and everything is well managed. Maybe for the North-American players this game cannot be so easily understood but the community is huge worldwide and the database is much bigger than the DB of the Command.

I'm not requesting or suggesting to the developers develop some easy tool for the DB Edition the only thing I think should have been possible is we being permitted to edit the DB for personal use.

WAYNE97 - I also find a tool to edit the database the problem is that when I try to launch the game it is simply impossible. And i assure you that I didn't screw the database. You can change only one item and the game checks that the database had been edited. How did you manage to edit the database and yet play?

My Best Regards,

P.S.: I'm not a native english speaker.

Edited: Sorry I written this fast.

< Message edited by rbsj -- 12/4/2018 8:31:56 PM >

(in reply to wayne97)
Post #: 20
RE: Can we got the more profesional edition? lets discu... - 12/4/2018 9:00:25 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline 		Just as a general comment, you're English is really excellent.

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Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to rbsj)
Post #: 21
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