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AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 10:41:34 AM   
kr0114

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/7/2017
Status: offline 		Not only single mission but in quick battle, AI unit tactics are bit too offensive. Even in defense mission.

I think sometimes they surprises me by flanking maneuver. But In many cases AI often counterattacks my position and get screwed.

Yeah... this situation also happen in PBEM battle when i completely deceiving opponents.

I hope someday He would learn about how to get into the battle with breathing.

Post #: 1
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 12:09:53 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Has anyone played the exact same single mission or quick battle several times to see if the AI behavior is the same each play through or does it try different tactics each time?

Thanks.

_____________________________

“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
― Alfred Thayer Mahan


(in reply to kr0114)
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RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 12:42:16 PM   
zacklaws

 

Posts: 415
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		My experience is, everytime you play a scenario, the enemy AI do exactly the same thing and on the same axis.

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Post #: 3
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 1:12:59 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		In order to test behavior on such a small footprint of terrain, you would have to, as the player, radically change you attack or defensive posture (clump and go left versus clump and go right) and then see if the AI reacts differently to your change as you are seen by AI forces. Given limited VP locations, short distances to those locations, and usually enough force foot print to cover the map, the most direct route is going to be the best and most used AI route.

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RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 1:13:10 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not so sure about this. I've been trying to win the Twin Valleys scenario and have started/restarted it probably 4 times. The first couple of times, only a token force attacked the north valley, with the major thrust through the south valley. However, the last time I played, there was a major thrust through the north valley. Each time, I varied by unit set up, so I can't say for sure if that had an impact on how the AI reacted, but I do know it was different at least once.

(in reply to zacklaws)
Post #: 5
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 4:06:06 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		To me, it seems that VP position and geometry is the major key for AI route setting. I played skirmish game on same map with same faction, just different VP position. I watched AI from developer mod, and their thrust axis changes according to location of VP. However, their route is usually confined by geometry like hills & mountains, unpassable water, town and etc... So if the map has too much confinement, their route will be more or less limited, though you change the VP location. I think that would be similar to what we expect from multiplay.

Plus, they react to player assault or counter attack. One game I remember that AI countered my Mech. inf push by sending a platoon of Challenger tanks. I think this might be a reason why we sometimes see different reaction from AI from same pre-designed scenarios.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/19/2018 4:14:06 PM >

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RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 4:16:01 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That make sense. I wonder how varied the advance would be on a less confined map?

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― Alfred Thayer Mahan


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Post #: 7
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 4:17:55 PM   
Werezak

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

Has anyone played the exact same single mission or quick battle several times to see if the AI behavior is the same each play through or does it try different tactics each time?

Thanks.


I've seen the AI do very different things on the same scenario. I replayed a meeting engagement expecting the AI to focus it's armor on an attack on an objective on the W side of the map, and was surprised when the second time around the AI decided to focus on an objective in the center instead.

The AI behavior does seem to revolve around the objective locations though, so it may not be as varied on miniscule maps, I would imagine (haven't tested it though). I think it would be better if it was based on key terrain instead.

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 8
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 4:25:42 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin
That make sense. I wonder how varied the advance would be on a less confined map?


If there is absolutely no obstacles, like Fort Irwin area, they choose the shortest path = straight line. However, still, they change their axis according to VP location. Sometimes they choose the closest VP, but sometimes they chose farthest VP. This changes their behavior a bit too.

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Post #: 9
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 6:14:16 PM   
overkill01

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 12/31/2015
Status: offline 		There is something very wrong with the AI.

The AI just throws its units at you, many times it's like a turkeyshoot.

It doesn't seem to adapt to the situation in the same game either.


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Post #: 10
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 6:22:49 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Can I suggest playing in dev mode where you can see the AI's movements. There is more to it than what you are just seeing coming at you at one time.

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Post #: 11
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/19/2018 11:25:03 PM   
Veitikka


Posts: 1304
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: overkill01

There is something very wrong with the AI.

The AI just throws its units at you, many times it's like a turkeyshoot.

It doesn't seem to adapt to the situation in the same game either.


We can improve the AI. However, as been discussed in the other threads, I need more detailed suggestions than 'don't be a turkeyshoot'.

One way to make the AI more unpredictable is to increase the dummy objective rate and radius. That way you won't know where the AI is going.


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Know thyself!

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Post #: 12
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/20/2018 2:11:51 AM   
kr0114

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/7/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

We can improve the AI. However, as been discussed in the other threads, I need more detailed suggestions than 'don't be a turkeyshoot'.

One way to make the AI more unpredictable is to increase the dummy objective rate and radius. That way you won't know where the AI is going.



Okay then, here is my detailed(?) solution.

1) AI is literally Unstoppable. they often trying to storming and overrun VP. Sometimes it works but in other cases it looks very reckless.
I think AI player be more cautious and keep calm.


2) Need how to use terrain well. Current status of AI doesn't. For example His tank or armored units just straight forward to the dense forest which is possible Infantry ambush exist. Maybe He uses more Joint tactics between inf & armored, this can be solve.


3) Active Hit and Run(or Shoot n scoop) tactics for AI also would be awsome. Since release date i've not seen any AI tanks going backwards in dangerous situation.

< Message edited by kr0114 -- 11/20/2018 2:14:42 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/20/2018 2:42:31 AM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		I really, really, like the dummy objectives set to the maximum setting. If you don't want to see the AI suicide charging on your prepared defense, then try using the dummy objectives. You will no longer be able to predict where the AI is going to attack, and set up an ambush at their destination. The objective tells the AI, if you don't take this location, you will lose the game. Of course they suicide charge on it, so use the dummy objectives and you will no longer know what locations the AI is considering to be crucial to their position. The AI is actually acting rationally, the irrational thing is that you know where the objective is.

< Message edited by Adam Rinkleff -- 11/20/2018 2:45:48 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/20/2018 3:07:35 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Hands down, a great point, Adam.

To many posts that describe an AI that doesn't exist in any other game - other than #3 with Combat Mission series; they retreat when they are getting mauled, no game has a shoot/scoot behavior, although it came be modeled in the CM scenario editor.

Unfortunately, most people will not take the time to use the excellent tools the dev has included, including the scenario and database editors. I know of no modern game (i.e., in the last several years) where almost every aspect of formation/unit/weapon system/ammo can be modded. Sanctus Reach, of all games, has a nice unit editor though.

I also understand that the modding just happens to float-my-boat, and most people want to fire it up and play against an extremely intelligent AI opponent. With larger scenarios, the formation/waypoint thing is probably something to key on, but doesn't really bother me that much.

IMO, it's a unique game system and something every wargamer should consider owning. Just like Flashpoint:RS, CMANO and a couple of others.





< Message edited by Rosseau -- 11/20/2018 3:13:39 AM >

(in reply to kr0114)
Post #: 15
RE: AI is quite offensive - 11/20/2018 6:02:09 AM   
kr0114

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/7/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Hands down, a great point, Adam.

To many posts that describe an AI that doesn't exist in any other game - other than #3 with Combat Mission series; they retreat when they are getting mauled, no game has a shoot/scoot behavior, although it came be modeled in the CM scenario editor.



LOL, Actually im old CM gamer. honestly i expected AI doing some delicate movement at first. My expectation of this game was too high.

quote:



and most people want to fire it up and play against an extremely intelligent AI opponent. With larger scenarios, the formation/waypoint thing is probably something to key on, but doesn't really bother me that much.




Well Unlike other RTS games, AB's realism system covers mistakes of opponent. IMHO just little improvements of computer side give human player more challenge in this game.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 16
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