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Naval bombardment question - 11/22/2018 8:31:07 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
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From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Can you use naval bombardment against troops besieging one of your own bases? I know that when bombarding an enemy held base the airfield, CD units, base structures and enemy vessels are more likely to be targeted - but that doesn't say that you can't target enemy troops in your own base hex. Of course, the manual doesn't say that you can, either...

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/22/2018 8:44:22 PM   
Leandros


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Yes, you can - it does.

Fred

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/22/2018 10:51:56 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Yup. It does....GP

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/23/2018 3:25:39 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Yes...Done it many times.

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/23/2018 7:14:36 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Ditto.

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Post #: 5
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/23/2018 8:09:44 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Depending upon the port, they can rearm there as well.

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Post #: 6
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/23/2018 8:26:29 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Depending upon the port, they can rearm there as well.


Plus, NS devices.

Edit: Oops, or AKE's


< Message edited by rustysi -- 11/23/2018 8:27:11 PM >

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 7
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 1:45:40 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		I've had great success bombarding both while invading and defending

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Post #: 8
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 4:37:10 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo. I certainly get more enemy troops destroyed and disabled when they bombard my troops - counter battery fire is deadly!

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 9
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 4:44:29 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo. I certainly get more enemy troops destroyed and disabled when they bombard my troops - counter battery fire is deadly!

Not quoting any source right now but many of us can find it...A study was made after the war and it was found that for all the shells fired, bullets expended, etc...every military life lost cost something ridiculous like a ton of lead, etc..
Saw that post recently of one of our forumites demanding "sources" for his own edification, other than the internet, and at one time I could not blame him.
Of late, if I question the veracity of long time acquaintances, I can involve myself checking the numbers, rather than insulting people.
None of us are children.

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Post #: 10
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 6:07:46 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo. I certainly get more enemy troops destroyed and disabled when they bombard my troops - counter battery fire is deadly!

Be aware that the progression of damage to an LCU is:

- fatigue and morale effects, and destruction of supply.
- disruption - some of the squad members are killed or wounded so the squad cannot function at full force*
- disablement - enough squad members are killed or wounded to make the squad ineffective at its job*
- destruction - virtually all the squad members are dead or permanently crippled so it will never be able to fight again *

One bombardment is likely to only get started on the sequence, and the first two effects are not reported in the combat report (or anywhere else their enemy can see). Persistence will get the job done, especially if you can get more bombardments happening before the disrupted/disabled troops recover.

Note * - my description of what is happening is drawn from the mismatches that sometimes occur between the numbers of bodies reported affected vs the number of squads reported affected. Combat squads have 13 men but you can have 65 men destroyed/disabled and 10 squads affected - i.e. not all squad members are necessarily affected by the combat.



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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 7:33:18 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Thanks, these IJA troops have been heavily disrupted already by constant combat with the defenders of Akyab over the past few months. Surely that condition is taken into consideration by the bombardment calculations?

Now that Chittagong just improved its port facilities to level 7 I can use it for re-arming and will be able to keep up the pounding. I had been required to send the SC TFs back to Madras for re-arming until now.

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fair winds,
Brad

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 9:12:01 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
Thanks, these IJA troops have been heavily disrupted already by constant combat with the defenders of Akyab over the past few months. Surely that condition is taken into consideration by the bombardment calculations?

Now that Chittagong just improved its port facilities to level 7 I can use it for re-arming and will be able to keep up the pounding. I had been required to send the SC TFs back to Madras for re-arming until now.

1. Why would troops condition matter for where the shells will fall? Bombing/bombardment hurts directly and adds to the current disruption/fatigue levels
2. AKEs are indispensable for the serial bombardments

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/24/2018 10:17:08 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
Thanks, these IJA troops have been heavily disrupted already by constant combat with the defenders of Akyab over the past few months. Surely that condition is taken into consideration by the bombardment calculations?

Now that Chittagong just improved its port facilities to level 7 I can use it for re-arming and will be able to keep up the pounding. I had been required to send the SC TFs back to Madras for re-arming until now.

1. Why would troops condition matter for where the shells will fall? Bombing/bombardment hurts directly and adds to the current disruption/fatigue levels
2. AKEs are indispensable for the serial bombardments

Yes, detection level is the critical thing when troops are hidden in good terrain or high forts. But I have completely eliminated units by sustained bombardments by sea and air, and sometimes with LCU artillery thrown in, if I have good tubes nearby. The little mountain/jungle guns and mortars are not so helpful against dug-in troops, but help a lot in your own defence. Guns of 155mm/6 inch caliber and up can be highly effective.



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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/25/2018 6:20:50 PM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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quote:

Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo.


Do you have your naval spotter planes over the target?

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 15
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/25/2018 9:17:02 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo.


Do you have your naval spotter planes over the target?


Most naval bombardments take place in the dark - mine, anyway - do the spotter planes work in the dark?

Fred

-----


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 16
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/25/2018 9:33:24 PM   
btd64


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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Well, my first two naval bombardments in defense of Akyab - using battleships and heavy cruisers - netted a grand total of six (!) squads disabled. I am not sure that it was worth the cost of the ammo.


Do you have your naval spotter planes over the target?


Most naval bombardments take place in the dark - mine, anyway - do the spotter planes work in the dark?

Fred

-----



Yes, Night time spotters do work....GP

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Post #: 17
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 4:05:03 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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No, I don't have my shipborne spotter aircraft over the target, as I did not believe that they would fly for a night bombardment. I will try that... do I have to set them to "night ops"?

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Post #: 18
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 4:13:58 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Yes, set them to night, 1000 feet altitude, range 0. Do NOT assign a target, that might send them off doing recon instead of spotting.
I often bombard both night and day with the same TF. Set it to "remain on station" (if it is safe enough to stick around). I look at the order of the ships in the TF listing and the first one that has a spotter aircraft I set for night spotting. The second one in the list I set for day spotting.

It only takes one aircraft to spot for the whole TF, even though the message will say "spotting for (launching ship).
If there are other float planes in the TF, I set one to do nighttime recon and one to do daytime recon (to raise the DL for bombardments that happen after they fly).

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 7:54:09 AM   
PetrOs

 

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Status: offline 		Which mission should they be set as spotter?

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 10:21:20 AM   
HansBolter


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Status: offline 		Recon mission. I Target the base and have never had an issue. Not sure what BBfanboy meant about getting it to spot but not recon by not setting a target.

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 1:25:11 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Recon mission. I Target the base and have never had an issue. Not sure what BBfanboy meant about getting it to spot but not recon by not setting a target.


With a designated target the recon mission will (subject to weather permitting) only fly to that target. With no designated target the recon mission might fly to another base which is not the intended bombardment target instead.

Alfred

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Post #: 22
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 2:17:23 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Recon mission. I Target the base and have never had an issue. Not sure what BBfanboy meant about getting it to spot but not recon by not setting a target.


With a designated target the recon mission will (subject to weather permitting) only fly to that target. With no designated target the recon mission might fly to another base which is not the intended bombardment target instead.

Alfred


Will that happen with range set to 0? I have not had any problem keeping the aircraft in the bombardment hex if I set that range.
My supposition with setting a base as target is that the FP may do a general recon mission instead of spotting. I know bombardment usually happens before the night air phase, but sometimes bombardments get delayed.

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/26/2018 2:42:57 PM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline 		Range "0" simply means recon is limited to hex which holds the TF.  Thus without setting a target, even with range 0, there is a chance that if the bombardment TF transits any base hex before arriving at the bombardment destination, a recon of a non bombardment hex might result.  Not a likely scenario but theoretically a possibility.  Whereas if you do specifically target the recon to the bombardment hex, that possibility is not possible.

Usually a bombardment TF will have more than one ship equipped with a floatplane unit.  As you only need 1 unit to act as a spotter for the bombardment (2 units if you want both night and day coverage) there is no downside when assigning the specific bombardment target to the recon mission.

Alfred

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/27/2018 12:06:11 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Range "0" simply means recon is limited to hex which holds the TF.  Thus without setting a target, even with range 0, there is a chance that if the bombardment TF transits any base hex before arriving at the bombardment destination, a recon of a non bombardment hex might result.  Not a likely scenario but theoretically a possibility.  Whereas if you do specifically target the recon to the bombardment hex, that possibility is not possible.

Usually a bombardment TF will have more than one ship equipped with a floatplane unit.  As you only need 1 unit to act as a spotter for the bombardment (2 units if you want both night and day coverage) there is no downside when assigning the specific bombardment target to the recon mission.

Alfred

Ok - I understand now the part about transiting other bases.
I am somewhat non-standard in that I usually do not do a nighttime in-and-out bombardment, preferring to remain and bombard during the day as well (I am reducing isolated targets). This means I need both night and day spotting and additional recon if there are enough FP equipped ships.

But if selecting the base does not interfere with spotting I will try that method too (as opposed to not selecting a target, which also works IME).

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/27/2018 12:56:17 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


No, I don't have my shipborne spotter aircraft over the target, as I did not believe that they would fly for a night bombardment. I will try that... do I have to set them to "night ops"?


Two approaches (do both):

1. During the day, have IJAAF / IJNAF dedicated recon aircraft "recon" the hex. The goal is to get the DL up to 9/10, 10/10 or 11/10.

2. Set the bombardment TF and have float planes switch to 'night operations' and 'recon' the base in question. It's OK if the base is currently out of range because the TF will be moving in closer to blast it to kingdom come.

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/27/2018 5:23:11 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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From: Olympia, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


No, I don't have my shipborne spotter aircraft over the target, as I did not believe that they would fly for a night bombardment. I will try that... do I have to set them to "night ops"?


Two approaches (do both):

1. During the day, have IJAAF / IJNAF dedicated recon aircraft "recon" the hex. The goal is to get the DL up to 9/10, 10/10 or 11/10.

2. Set the bombardment TF and have float planes switch to 'night operations' and 'recon' the base in question. It's OK if the base is currently out of range because the TF will be moving in closer to blast it to kingdom come.



Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere Fanboy... I am the Western Imperial Powers. I've been flying recon over those troops for weeks, though that eats up one of only four recon squadrons in the area. I had not been using the spotter aircraft to fly recon over the target, however... so I appreciate you being willing to help the evil overseers maintain our immoral hold over the downtrodden people of Asia.

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RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/28/2018 12:34:22 AM   
Edward75


Posts: 194
Joined: 4/16/2010
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		Is there any difference in night or day naval bombardment?
It is bad that it is impossible to establish such an option: day / night naval bombardment.

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Post #: 28
RE: Naval bombardment question - 11/28/2018 8:10:53 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edward75

Is there any difference in night or day naval bombardment?
It is bad that it is impossible to establish such an option: day / night naval bombardment.

If the TF has enough ammo left after the night bombardment, the day bombardment is usually more effective because the D/L has been raised and because the enemy troops are still suffering disruption from the night bombardment. Weather can change between phases though, so that could affect the accuracy of the bombardment. If the visibility is bad enough the TF might not bombard at all.

To do a daytime bombardment you usually must set "Remain on Station" rather than the usual Return to Port. In rare circumstances a TF set for night bombardment will have some delays and bombard during the daytime, but you do not have a way of ensuring that happens - it is a mostly random event.

Similarly, if you start with your TF more than one phase's movement away from the target in hopes it will arrive in daylight, the bombardment routine will usually thwart you by moving your TF only a few hexes so that it can reach the target on the next night phase.

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