More Movement Questions for Morvael...

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More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/2/2018 1:33:59 PM

GamesaurusRex

Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

What madness is this ? The Russians already have trouble getting enough movement points to lug their slow ass even one hex...

But when it comes time to form Infantry Corps from Divisions... let's pour salt into the wound.

I build up three IDs with the same morale (49), but three different movement ratings...

16/16/16 gets me a 15 MVP Corps. (Ok... one can argue a slight reduction due to unit size.)
15/16/16 gets me a 14 MVP Corps. (Ok... same here.)
14/16/16 gets me a 12 MVP Corp. (Wait a minute ! Why the penalty ? Logic would give a 13 or 14.)

Post #: 1

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/3/2018 6:52:36 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

What madness is this ? The Russians already have trouble getting enough movement points to lug their slow ass even one hex...

But when it comes time to form Infantry Corps from Divisions... let's pour salt into the wound.

I build up three IDs with the same morale (49), but three different movement ratings...

16/16/16 gets me a 15 MVP Corps. (Ok... one can argue a slight reduction due to unit size.)
15/16/16 gets me a 14 MVP Corps. (Ok... same here.)
14/16/16 gets me a 12 MVP Corp. (Wait a minute ! Why the penalty ? Logic would give a 13 or 14.)

I repeat, morale has nothing to do with movement piont determination, fatique does along with initiative and admin checks.

Please refer to this post http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4561153

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 2

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/4/2018 2:43:31 AM

56ajax

Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

What madness is this ? The Russians already have trouble getting enough movement points to lug their slow ass even one hex...

But when it comes time to form Infantry Corps from Divisions... let's pour salt into the wound.

I build up three IDs with the same morale (49), but three different movement ratings...

16/16/16 gets me a 15 MVP Corps. (Ok... one can argue a slight reduction due to unit size.)
15/16/16 gets me a 14 MVP Corps. (Ok... same here.)
14/16/16 gets me a 12 MVP Corp. (Wait a minute ! Why the penalty ? Logic would give a 13 or 14.)

I will tell you what madness is...creating a Tank Corps with exp of 35 out of Tank Brigades with experience of 50....that is crazy....as if a tank crew losses experience by assignment to a new unit.....I understand there may co-ordination issues but
but that is the quality of the leadership/commanders...

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre a�rienne

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 3

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/4/2018 8:00:39 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

What madness is this ? The Russians already have trouble getting enough movement points to lug their slow ass even one hex...

But when it comes time to form Infantry Corps from Divisions... let's pour salt into the wound.

I build up three IDs with the same morale (49), but three different movement ratings...

16/16/16 gets me a 15 MVP Corps. (Ok... one can argue a slight reduction due to unit size.)
15/16/16 gets me a 14 MVP Corps. (Ok... same here.)
14/16/16 gets me a 12 MVP Corp. (Wait a minute ! Why the penalty ? Logic would give a 13 or 14.)

I will tell you what madness is...creating a Tank Corps with exp of 35 out of Tank Brigades with experience of 50....that is crazy....as if a tank crew losses experience by assignment to a new unit.....I understand there may co-ordination issues but
but that is the quality of the leadership/commanders...

1 tank corps is bigger than the sum of 3 Tank Bdes. In experienced ground elements need to be added. This is not the case with rifles, were 1 rifle corps is the same as the sum of 3 rifle div, but not 2 + 1 bde.

The reason is the TOEs are different as stated in the game Play Info of section 7.5.3.3

Game Play Info: The major difference between tank and mechanized corps versus rifle and cavalry corps is that that tank/mech corps have unique TOEs they follow while rifle/cavalry corps combat units are simply the sum of three divisions. Therefore while you can form a tank corps from three tank brigades, the TOE of a tank corps is not the same as the TOE of a tank brigade times three (i.e. tank corps contain ground elements not found in tank brigades).

Having said that I also do not know why its so large, maybe a small percentage point drop as they are not used to fighting as corps but not the 25% that does occur. If it's to do with that why doesn't the rifle corps suffer the same?

The corps has fewer of some ground elements (KV-1 for instance) but most are simply the sum of the 3 bde numbers. It does not get the extra ground elements until the next logistics phase so the corps experience should not change until the new raw ground elements are added.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 12/4/2018 8:17:45 AM >

(in reply to 56ajax)

Post #: 4

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/5/2018 1:14:34 PM

GamesaurusRex

Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

And with all these issues... the choice of which units to combine with which is crucial to get the best result. It would be nice if the mechanics at work here were at least documented so the player understood them and was not left a random crap shoot.

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 5

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/6/2018 6:02:28 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

And with all these issues... the choice of which units to combine with which is crucial to get the best result. It would be nice if the mechanics at work here were at least documented so the player understood them and was not left a random crap shoot.

It's your chioce.

As far as the mechanics of the game goes when took on the project to upgrade the manual I was informed that much of the number crunching was hidden deliberately and is always going to be so. It is my beleive that the process of combining two units together is the same no matter how it's done, this includes standard replacments, merging and building up, etc. There's more detail in section 18.2 on replacements.

Note that everything that I've said here and in others threads on rules is in the new manual, but bear in mind I do not have the code, just a list of changes nearly always backed up be experimentation and forum posts.

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 6

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/6/2018 11:06:42 AM

GamesaurusRex

Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline

Don't misunderstand me, Chris... I have nothing but extreme applause for your efforts here.

I'm just empathizing with the newcomer's chore of trying to figure out the basics of playing the game. You and I both know the fog factor involved here.

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 12/6/2018 11:09:40 AM >

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 7

RE: More Movement Questions for Morvael... - 12/7/2018 5:50:41 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Don't misunderstand me, Chris... I have nothing but extreme applause for your efforts here.

I'm just empathizing with the newcomer's chore of trying to figure out the basics of playing the game. You and I both know the fog factor involved here.

I understand that, still got questions myself.

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)

Post #: 8