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Advantage of merging 2 units?

 
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Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/3/2018 5:03:07 PM   
AlexSF


Posts: 183
Joined: 9/2/2013
From: France
Status: offline 		I don't really see the advantage for the Soviet to merge 2 weakened divisions together. Sure you get one stronger div but at a cost of 5 AP and the second one is basically disbanded and comes back as an empty shell several weeks later.
Usually the Soviet would do that when cut off out of supply so maybe that way it saves the ground elements of the disbanded unit? Is it worth the 5 AP? If not merged the 2 divs would eventually surrender and come back too anyway.
Trying to understand the rational behind that merger option.


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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/3/2018 8:01:04 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		There is no cost to merge if you do it at the end of your turn after you have spent your AP - the cost is related to the cost to bring the unit that is merged out of existence back as a new cadre. Like any destroyed unit coming back, it costs a bunch of AP but only if you have any left. This is why as the Soviets you pretty much always want to spend all your AP.

The advantage is that units become "unready" if their TOE plus morale is below a certain level - I think 90-100? So if a Soviet unit is at 55 TOE, any casualties will put it into unready status. If you can fill it up to 100% by merging a brigade into it, it becomes more resilient.

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/3/2018 9:13:50 PM   
AlexSF


Posts: 183
Joined: 9/2/2013
From: France
Status: offline 		ooh so if I wait and spend all my APs before merging units It doesnt cost anything? A bit too gamey for my taste...

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 1:36:03 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline 		or if your TOEs are slow to fill you can make 1 stronger unit out of 2 weaker ones; or if your opponent is slow to eliminate pocketed units you can hurry along the process...

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 7:21:56 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

ooh so if I wait and spend all my APs before merging units It doesnt cost anything? A bit too gamey for my taste...


Yes gamey. Needs code to prevent that from happening or if it does taking it off the next turns APs.

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 8:02:50 AM   
AlexSF


Posts: 183
Joined: 9/2/2013
From: France
Status: offline 		Does anyone know if by merging isolated units like that it prevents grounds elements and manpower from being captured/destroyed later on when the pocket is made to surrender? That would be the only advantage I can think of.

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 9:34:20 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

Does anyone know if by merging isolated units like that it prevents grounds elements and manpower from being captured/destroyed later on when the pocket is made to surrender? That would be the only advantage I can think of.


None. All you're doing when merging is filling out one unit with another, matters not which unit they are in on surrender. It's also not worth the APs. Merging outside of a pocket is worth it however as a larger unit is stronger than the 'sum of it's parts' or at least that's what I've always worked on but in game its very difficult to prove either way. It's true in a pocket as well but anything in a pocket suffers from lack of supply effects etc so any andvantage it might have is lost.

There's are two things going for it, stacking (possible the most important) and merged units do return, all-be-it empty.

< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 12/4/2018 9:35:51 AM >

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 12:33:20 PM   
AlexSF


Posts: 183
Joined: 9/2/2013
From: France
Status: offline 		Interesting, thx. Yep it's often good to merge in order to simplify stacking. Having a div come back earlier in the game is also good, some pockets last for a long time. I know from experience ;)

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/4/2018 4:31:29 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		I don't know if it's gamey any more than exhausting all your AP in a turn so the destroyed units coming back in the logistics phase don't cost anything is gamey. It's the same mechanism.

Personally, I'd prefer if the restoration of destroyed units in general didn't cost AP. I don't think it does for the Axis (check me on this?). It doesn't for the first several turns for the USSR either. Why the difference?

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RE: Advantage of merging 2 units? - 12/5/2018 6:56:48 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I don't know if it's gamey any more than exhausting all your AP in a turn so the destroyed units coming back in the logistics phase don't cost anything is gamey. It's the same mechanism.


It's all amatter of opinion, for me playing the rules in anyway is gamey.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Personally, I'd prefer if the restoration of destroyed units in general didn't cost AP. I don't think it does for the Axis (check me on this?). It doesn't for the first several turns for the USSR either. Why the difference?


Germans and Soviet early in the war come back automatically based on what happen historically I think. The Germans can never buy units using APs.

For the Soviets no real difference between buying new and have the old ones come back except it's cheaper. Cheaper
maybe becasue the depot infrastructure already exists all you need is men and equipment. You get them back even if you do not have the APs, now that's wrong.

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