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Penetration of 37mm AT gun

 
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Penetration of 37mm AT gun - 7/27/2002 1:53:09 AM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		To the veterans out there, what's the maximum penetration of a 37mm AT gun (the gun and those mounted on Pz38s)

I'm just wondering cuz I got lucky one time and blew a !KV-1! with a frontal hit.
Post #: 1
luck indeed - 7/27/2002 2:31:21 AM   
Curieus

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: NL
Status: offline 		That is luck indeed. My guess is that you had a vulnerable location hit. (or did you get a top hit, was the KV1 in lower ground). As for penetration values. Select a Pz 38(t) and hit spacebar. Below the picture (IIRC) you have a table wich shows the relevant penetration values (before modifiers)

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Post #: 2
- 7/27/2002 2:44:51 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Must've met the 76.2mm round at the breach block...

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Post #: 3
- 7/27/2002 10:00:38 AM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Ap pen at one hex is 57 or close to it. if it ever has apcr it is much higher arond 84

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Post #: 4
- 7/27/2002 10:35:58 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		The weirdest result I ever saw in a game was when a german SPW 251 platoon leader vehicle with a 37mm AT gun came face to face with a Pershing tank moving diagonally across its front in deep woods. Pershing dead ... no survivors! I don't argue the realism (musta hit the open gas fill nozzle!). I was pretty happy though! - "give those boys the iron cross!"

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Post #: 5
- 7/27/2002 1:58:57 PM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I once lost a IS-3 too a bottom 8cm motar hit. Couldn't of come at a worse time. I ended up losing that game. But could that of really happened?

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Post #: 6
- 7/28/2002 12:35:17 AM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		Most probably I guess, I heard that the belly armor of even a heavy tank is something like 1/4 or 1/6 or something like that of the frontal hull value, i guess a 37mm that is lcky enough can blow even an IS

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Post #: 7
- 7/28/2002 1:11:02 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		I've seen things similar happen IRL Hades, my friend was showing something off, firing off a model-mortar that launched things, he was aiming it at a car (Was shooting a big foam ball with a lead nugget inside for weight) and it hit just under the cars bumper because of arc, perfect bottom hit on tank.

Probably a 1:1000000 chance though.

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Post #: 8
- 7/28/2002 1:50:29 PM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Yeah I bet that car wasnt your last damb AUX tank. That sounds fun, though. Motorist in Texas beware, the 1st Foam Mortar Division just opened for business.

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Post #: 9
- 7/28/2002 2:08:40 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Yeah well the Foam didn't do what we hoped it would.

The second shot slammed so hard down on the roof that it made a dent...cost $100 to get it repaired...since then we've modified that Mortar into an AT slugthrower, we had a friend calculate the speed it's launched at...something about 550mph average over a 500yard firing range, from out of the muzzle to the target.


Needless to say that's enough force to dent cars...our latest idea is to make it rapid fire with an auto-loader.

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Post #: 10
- 7/29/2002 8:06:33 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		You wouldn't be from Southern California, would you G_X? :D

(You could mount it to a pintle in the back of a pickup. Nobody'd bug you then)

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Post #: 11
- 7/29/2002 11:23:02 AM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		No, I think if me and James were from Southern California we'd Be arrested, **** Democrats ;)

No, I'm from the Deep South, Joy-jah (Translated: Georgia)

And I think that the truck idea might be a good one, it'd also allow us to have the box for the belt feeder nearby...hmm.

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Post #: 12
- 7/31/2002 10:32:34 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by G_X
[B]Yeah well the Foam didn't do what we hoped it would.

The second shot slammed so hard down on the roof that it made a dent...cost $100 to get it repaired...since then we've modified that Mortar into an AT slugthrower, we had a friend calculate the speed it's launched at...something about 550mph average over a 500yard firing range, from out of the muzzle to the target.


Needless to say that's enough force to dent cars...our latest idea is to make it rapid fire with an auto-loader. [/B][/QUOTE]

Are you sure about that muzzle velocity? That would put it about the same as a low powered rifle like a 30-30 or .30 m1 carbine.

Thats about 3 times the speed of a paintball. You should be hitting hard enough to shoot thru aluminum road signs.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 13
Belly hits - 8/2/2002 1:20:58 AM   
Graccus


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/2/2002
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I've read accounts of P-51's and P-47's bouncing .50 cal rounds off of the paved or concrete roads into the bellys of German tanks to knock them out.

Graccus

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Post #: 14
- 8/2/2002 7:27:17 AM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Erm, sorry...I wasn't in my right mind...

550mph is nuts...I dunno why I said that...

It's more around 100-something, I think 550 was the number I heard on the TV (Was watching a show about WWII era airplanes) Something to do with speed...and my mind got muddled, yeah...

Lol, 550 even for a foam wrapped led ball would put a hole in a car door.

Thanks for pointing that out :rolleyes: I'm not always on the ball as it were...I think 550 for a foam ball that would be about the weight of a .50 round would have a hell of a kick too, and this doesn't have quite that much, plus it's not using explosives to propell the projectile, well, not in a conventional sense.

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Post #: 15
Re: Belly hits - 6/10/2003 10:02:42 AM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graccus
[B]I've read accounts of P-51's and P-47's bouncing .50 cal rounds off of the paved or concrete roads into the bellys of German tanks to knock them out.

Graccus

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I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

--Frank Sinatra [/B][/QUOTE]

I have heard of the rare occassion when a mortar or artillery round could bounce up off a rock and theoretically hit the bottom of something over it.

I know when I was working in the butts at the rifle range that there were often rounds ricochetting around the concrete bunkers. Anybody got any idea how much of you can get inside one of those flat soup-dish helmets the British used to have?:) Well, I was surprised how much of me got into one when a round pinged 3 times inside my bunker.:D

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Post #: 16
- 6/10/2003 10:11:55 AM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I once had a ISU-152 sitting on a praved road in a game. Some 81 mortars fell on it and it brewed up from a bottom hit.:mad: :mad: :mad: not cool
man you are dredging up some old threads:)

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Post #: 17
- 6/10/2003 6:28:40 PM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		That's 'cause I'm a new member and after reading all the newest posts, I've started at the oldest I can find and gradually reading through all of them. So even these are old to you, I've never seen them before.

But there's a wealth of information and ideas in them that aren't being discussed anymore so it's very worthwhile. Any new player would be wise to go through the old topics.

Plus, I met a couple of new friends who've responded directly to me because of them. :D

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Post #: 18
- 6/10/2003 6:44:16 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by arethusa
[B] Any new player would be wise to go through the old topics.

[/B][/QUOTE]

How true..back in 2000 when SPWAW was new and quite a lot of new people arrived daily. Boy did I wish they had taken the time to read older topics...certain topics popped up _again_ almost daily :rolleyes:

Voriax

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Post #: 19
- 6/10/2003 6:47:02 PM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		i have too admitt to reading alot of the old posts too

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Post #: 20
- 6/11/2003 3:36:09 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by G_X
[B]Erm, sorry...I wasn't in my right mind...
Thanks for pointing that out :rolleyes: I'm not always on the ball as it were...I think 550 for a foam ball that would be about the weight of a .50 round would have a hell of a kick too, and this doesn't have quite that much, plus it's not using explosives to propell the projectile, well, not in a conventional sense. [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't know if you are familiar with them, but during WWI several armies tried compressed air mortars for use during the night for nearly silent and flashless firing.

The Austrian 200mm model had a range of 1800 yards, not bad for firing with compressed air triggered with the mechanical valves of the period.

Other designs along this line are the Zalinski pneumatic dynamite gun and the Sims-Dudley pneumatic field gun.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 21
- 6/15/2003 10:24:09 PM   
SkidLid

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/22/2003
From: Lancaster,UK
Status: offline 		Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting!

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Post #: 22
- 6/16/2003 3:23:40 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SkidLid
[B]Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting! [/B][/QUOTE]

No links, you just have to find a copy of Ian Hogg's book "Grenades and Mortars".
thanks, John.

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Post #: 23
- 6/16/2003 5:29:29 AM   
SkidLid

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/22/2003
From: Lancaster,UK
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info!

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Post #: 24
- 6/23/2003 10:31:46 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by arethusa
[B]That's 'cause I'm a new member and after reading all the newest posts, I've started at the oldest I can find and gradually reading through all of them. So even these are old to you, I've never seen them before.[/B][/QUOTE]

I did that too when I started... though now that I know a bit more, I should probably sit down and do it again. I love it when people dig these up. New insights help, as does bringing old topics that answer common questions. ^^

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Post #: 25
Re: Belly hits - 6/27/2003 9:21:51 PM   
Sentry

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/16/2003
From: Jõgeva,Estonia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graccus
[B]I've read accounts of P-51's and P-47's bouncing .50 cal rounds off of the paved or concrete roads into the bellys of German tanks to knock them out.

Wow.......there were **** good pilots during WWII then.I shouöd try to use this trick for IL-2 Sturmovik :D

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Post #: 26
- 6/27/2003 9:43:15 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by SkidLid
[B]Do you have any links on those compressed-air artillery pieces?They sound interesting! [/B][/QUOTE]

Zalinski dynamite gun:
http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/dynamite.shtml

Sims-Dudley:
http://www.spanamwar.com/dynamite.htm

Enjoy

Voriax

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Post #: 27
- 7/3/2003 4:04:13 PM   
Guerra

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/8/2003
From: Oulu, Finland
Status: offline 		This mortar thing, 81 mm hitting bottom armor of tank, seems pretty wierd.. Mortar rounds angle when hitting ground is almost perpendicular compared to land level, this makes theory of bouncing granade pointless.

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Post #: 28
- 7/3/2003 4:38:40 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guerra
[B]This mortar thing, 81 mm hitting bottom armor of tank, seems pretty wierd.. Mortar rounds angle when hitting ground is almost perpendicular compared to land level, this makes theory of bouncing granade pointless. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep. It's more a feature of the SP:WAW engine. ;)

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Post #: 29
- 7/3/2003 5:03:02 PM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Yep. It's more a feature of the SP:WAW engine. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Wouldn't SPWAW be soooo boring if it would behave like the real world :rolleyes: ?

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Post #: 30
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