RE: Chechnya map (WIP)

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RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/7/2018 4:19:06 AM

CCIP-subsim

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

I don't recommend making city blocks that are surrounded by buildings, with plain terrain or such in the center. Those can be traps for vehicles, especially for the AI side.

Long lines of buildings should be avoided, because they too can become traps for moving vehicles. It looks like you've followed this convention quite well.

It's looking very impressive.

Thank you, much appreciated

Yeah, I'll be careful to ensure there's passages - I'll probably do some passes on the map once I'm done to try and make sure I don't leave those "vehicle traps" around, and declutter things generally.
I think in general, it's important to stick to the principle of playability being the #1 priority, with everything else coming after.

Got those "microdistricts" from yesterday detailed out - used a historical topo map for the layout, but then satellite imagery for reference on the details...

Result:

< Message edited by CCIP-subsim -- 12/7/2018 4:20:48 AM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/7/2018 3:06:36 PM

exsonic01

Posts: 1131
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Looks great CCIP !! You need to write your own map making manual in the future if you have some time

Speaking of tank trap, then what design of urban map should we need to consider?

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Post #: 62

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/7/2018 3:12:39 PM

Veitikka

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01

Speaking of tank trap, then what design of urban map should we need to consider?

See the official maps. It's possible that they don't follow the guidelines 100%, but should be a good reference.

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Post #: 63

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/7/2018 3:43:30 PM

exsonic01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veitikka
See the official maps. It's possible that they don't follow the guidelines 100%, but should be a good reference.

Thanks, I was mostly following the satellite map, but now I need to fix some urban design :P Thanks to let us know. Hope your team finish map manual soon

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Post #: 64

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/9/2018 7:25:46 AM

CCIP-subsim

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Been a research kind of day today mostly; lots of little details fixed and corrected based on information I've managed to dig up.

The labels are probably way too detailed for a game at this scale, but hey, they can always be turned off and you might actually learn a thing or two about Grozny in the process

(all the more poignant seeing that the city was essentially destroyed in the war and most of the landmarks on the map are long gone in the real world).

City center:

Train station:

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Post #: 65

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/10/2018 6:53:32 AM

Phoenix100

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Incredible job. Beautiful map. Many thanks! Hope you can get to release something we can test soon, but don't rush to release it - worth the time and care if you get outstanding results like this. Fantastic cityscapes.

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Post #: 66

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/10/2018 9:33:08 AM

CCIP-subsim

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Cheers, thank you!

I'm hoping I can get the 15x15km Grozny map completed in time for New Years', which would of course e the 24th anniversary of the most infamous assault on Grozny. Already starting to think of how I may want to set up the historical scenarios I'll want!

Weekend's progress: both detailsand large new areas added...

Soon I'll be able to start testing battles on much larger chunks of the map!

And a possible loading screen for the Grozny 'mini' map...

On the DB side I've also rebuilt the Russian faction from scratch for the particular needs of this scenario - a bit of subtle tweaking and rebalancing, plus adding some of the needed units and capabilities, such as RPO-A thermobaric 'flamethrowers' (as they are referred to in Russian terminology) which saw extensive use in Grozny, or reworking the 2S1 SPG for direct-fire use in urban combat (which it was pressed into here).

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Post #: 67

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/10/2018 6:02:11 PM

exsonic01

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This is amazing CCIP, can't wait for your mod.

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Post #: 68

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/12/2018 7:34:28 AM

CCIP-subsim

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Today's progress: got my least favourite part of the map so far done!

Least favourite because it's in that bend of the river and doesn't quite work out in a neat grid (as it ought to be in real life) - so, after bouncing between good looks and accuracy, I ended up settling on neither and focused on roughly how well it would play.

High-rise buildings along Lenin Prospekt, the city's main thoroughfare, dominate the lines of sight here, while off to the sides are some of the older low-rise areas.

Off in the lower right corner, Minutka Square - one of Grozny's great battlegrounds - is beginning to take shape. With its underground passages and towering apartment blocks, and a key bottleneck for movement, it was heavily fought over and practically flattened during the wars.
For comparison, here's a satellite shot of the same area in 2002 (after the war, with much of the city still destroyed):

With placing things diagonnaly taking up a lot more space, there was no way I could preserve the grid alignment, so I chose to "save" the main lines of movement through the district instead.

Overall state of the map as of now.

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Post #: 69

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/13/2018 8:43:37 AM

CCIP-subsim

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For those who might be interested - I posted an AAR of one of my test runs of the new area today!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4568109

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Post #: 70

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/13/2018 2:40:08 PM

Hghx-0

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It looks like a huge amount of work, thank you and good luck to finish it! I am very interested in this war.

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Post #: 71

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/13/2018 7:01:49 PM

JiminyJickers

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Very impressive. I'm going to look at making my own map over the holidays. A very ahistorical recreation of the fictional battle of my hometown in New Zealand, haha.

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Post #: 72

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/14/2018 10:10:17 AM

CCIP-subsim

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Cheers, thank you! And backyard maps are always fun

Meanwhile, I've got some new friends to introduce today - had another go at the Russian OOB, where I've managed to 'kitbash' a number of real Russian vehicles from existing sprites. These are mostly support vehicles and HQs - which I totally understand AB not including by default (most of them are not designed for fighting, mostly for shadowing the force), but as a number of them did indeed get caught up in early fighting in Grozny, I thought it'd be important to include them for use in scenarios - and found use for them in-game too, especially with the HQ role (and the ability to load a dismountable command HQ team on them, too). Further tweaks and rule adjustments are continuing in the meantime!

R-145BM Chaika, and R-149BMR Kushetka - command vehicle versions of the BTR-60PB and BTR-80 respectively.

1B15 Mashina-S artillery HQ vehicle, and 2K21 SP Mortar - derived from the MT-LBu and MT-LB respectively

BREM-1 and BREM-Ch armor repair and recover vehicles - derived from the T-72 and BMP-1 respectively

BTR-D (with AGS-17 grenade MG) and MT-LBM - the former a close APC cousin of the BMD-1 IFV, and the latter is an MT-LB with the same grenade launcher up front, and a BTR-80 turret in the center. Both are used as scouting vehicles and combat transports for Spetsnaz teams.

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Post #: 73

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/15/2018 7:58:26 AM

CCIP-subsim

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Some big progress on the map today - I think this picture speaks for itself!

That is the entire 15x15km Grozny map, with the preliminary road layout now completed for virtually the entire map, and pretty much all of the low-rise housing placed. What's left now are a number of high-rise areas, the massive industrial district (which at one time held the USSR's largest oil refinery), and lots and lots of details! But I'm definitely starting to see an end in sight with this one.

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Post #: 74

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/15/2018 1:08:03 PM

kevinkins

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The mod was mentioned in the recent POD cast (Three Moves Ahead).

Kevin

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Post #: 75

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/21/2018 11:59:32 PM

CCIP-subsim

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Still cracking away on Grozny - not many shortcuts I can take when it comes to large parts of the city! Nearly every neighbourhood seems to require its own unique look and layout. On the plus side, I'm pretty happy with the resulting look

Here's a snapshot of the center of the city, which is 95% finalized:

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Post #: 76

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/22/2018 2:53:49 PM

dox44

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great job!

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Post #: 77

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/22/2018 5:14:12 PM

exsonic01

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He should be awarded from devs. Bravo!

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Post #: 78

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/22/2018 6:48:55 PM

CCIP-subsim

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Not until I actually finish and release something

Finally got a start on the city's massive oil refinery - this is only about 1/6th of it here.
(It did not survive the war, and much of this area remains in ruins even today)

One general conclusion for anyone making maps - avoid diagonal layouts of anything if you can, at all cost! It's a pain to work on

Luckily, aside from a couple more small pieces, I managed to line up the rest of the refinery on a more normal square grid.

< Message edited by CCIP-subsim -- 12/22/2018 6:50:05 PM >

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Post #: 79

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 12/22/2018 8:02:41 PM

exsonic01

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIP-subsim
One general conclusion for anyone making maps - avoid diagonal layouts of anything if you can, at all cost! It's a pain to work on

Couldn't agree more, I'm already trying to rectangularize any triangular or diamond shape streets as much as possible, especially small ones. That is the way to save time and escape from headaches.

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Post #: 80

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/11/2019 1:58:47 PM

CCIP-subsim

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Just popping in to say all is well - sorry I've really busy (first week of the year is always brutal at work!), but updates and uploads are coming. I'm hoping to release something to play with by the start of next week. I've been sitting on a pretty much completed DB mod for the conflict (first version of it, anyway), though I'm conscious of the fact that without a Grozny map to play on it's sort of missing its main point. So on the weekend I'll try to see how to best fill in the missing chunks of the city map to make it presentable and playable (rather than polished to the level of accuracy I'd eventually like it to be, since I think there's easily 50+ hours of work left for that, and that'd take me till March at the current rate!)

So, look for a first version of the DB and Grozny map by Sunday-Monday-ish

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Post #: 81

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/13/2019 3:55:04 PM

exsonic01

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Same here, I'm writing papers and scripts these days, but time to time I come back to AB and pop some tanks. I'm still waiting for map-making manual, but slowly work for DPRK map whenever I have some time.

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Post #: 82

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/13/2019 5:22:25 PM

tebeinteresno

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01

Same here, I'm writing papers and scripts these days, but time to time I come back to AB and pop some tanks. I'm still waiting for map-making manual, but slowly work for DPRK map whenever I have some time.

Do not panic!
I finished the tutorial So any questions could be answered )

< Message edited by tebeinteresno -- 1/13/2019 8:08:02 PM >

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Post #: 83

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/14/2019 9:56:04 AM

tebeinteresno

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIP-subsim

Some big progress on the map today - I think this picture speaks for itself!

Pretty damn good looking!
I can well imagine how much effort it took
I think it will be necessary to add a separate tile with a fence so that it will not so red.

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Post #: 84

RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/14/2019 11:21:09 PM

CCIP-subsim

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Cheers, and good luck!

So I'm going to give myself another week(end) - I've pretty much finished laying down all the terrain and buildings, but I want to do at least one pass through the "new" parts of the map to add some details, since there's a pretty jarring contrast.

Best way to explain it is this screenshot:

Top right side is a part of the industrial district I did with "old" methods, and bottom left is "new".

That said, map is getting there!

And yeah, I've noticed the bright red fence - but it only really jumps out when it's zoomed out all the way on the isometric view. Not too bad up close!

So I think I'll give myself till about next Monday - that should give me enough time to at least make another pass through the map and test things out a bit before uploading it

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RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/15/2019 6:14:56 AM

Perturabo

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Wow, amazing! Looking forward to playing on it!

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 1/15/2019 6:15:31 AM >

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RE: Chechnya map (WIP) - 1/18/2019 12:08:52 PM

Veitikka

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The location labels look a bit cluttered when zooming in. Is there a need for a smaller location label size, that's rendered when zoomed-in? How about an additional font color? The gray color was suggested, but in my opinion it's hard to see.