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Support unit question - 12/13/2018 4:35:34 PM

JTP

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Joined: 1/24/2016
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I notice when I click on the assign button of a hq unit, sometimes various support units are listed. I've been clicking on them, which brings them to the "main page" of the hq unit, under support.
Do I need to do this for them to be used, or can they be left "as is" ? In other words, should I click on the hq assign button ?

Post #: 1

RE: Support unit question - 12/13/2018 9:39:21 PM

A21

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For the support units to be used they need to be in the 1st direct HQ of any onmap units being used in combat. If they are left in higher HQs they will never be used. So if you do want that artillery to be used it could be a good idea.

(in reply to JTP)

Post #: 2

RE: Support unit question - 12/13/2018 11:09:25 PM

JTP

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Joined: 1/24/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Armatrading

For the support units to be used they need to be in the 1st direct HQ of any onmap units being used in combat. If they are left in higher HQs they will never be used. So if you do want that artillery to be used it could be a good idea.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, sorry I wasn't clear, I meant any 1st direct hq. Here's what happens: 1. Click on the hq name at the top if their icon which brings up the screen with their info. 2. I click on the assign link, In the lower right of this screen. 3. It goes to another screen that sometimes shows various support units. Says Pick a support unit at the top. 4. Each support unit I click on from this screen, then get put on the screen from step 1, under Support units/units attached link.

I'm just wondering do I have to take them off that Pick support unit screen or will they work from there too ?

(in reply to A21)

Post #: 3

RE: Support unit question - 12/14/2018 6:36:56 AM

Chris21wen

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Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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Sorry but I'm confused with your explanation. If I understand you correctly you can get support units into an HQ but want to know if they can be used in combat directly from the Pick Support unit window. The answer is no, it's more of a reserve but they can also be created there as well. Commitment of support units to combat can only take place from HQ that already have combat units that are already in the battle.

Details of what a support units is can be found here 7.4. How to attach support units can be found in section 7.7.3 of the new manual which further info on the interface in section 5.4.15. How there are used in combat is found here 15.4.1.

The manual can be accessed here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4529371.

(in reply to JTP)

Post #: 4

RE: Support unit question - 12/14/2018 12:09:27 PM

JTP

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Joined: 1/24/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

Sorry but I'm confused with your explanation. If I understand you correctly you can get support units into an HQ but want to know if they can be used in combat directly from the Pick Support unit window. The answer is no, it's more of a reserve but they can also be created there as well. Commitment of support units to combat can only take place from HQ that already have combat units that are already in the battle.

Details of what a support units is can be found here 7.4. How to attach support units can be found in section 7.7.3 of the new manual which further info on the interface in section 5.4.15. How there are used in combat is found here 15.4.1.

The manual can be accessed here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4529371.

Understandable; I read my reply and I get confused ! Sorry about that. Been reading the manual parts, thanks for the link and info. Appreciate the reply and hope you have a Merry Christmas !

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 5

RE: Support unit question - 12/14/2018 12:37:39 PM

Zug

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The assign function is used when you want to pull a higher HQ asset down and assign it directly to a subordinate unit, for example when you want to assign a corps pioneer unit directly to a division. This will make that pioneer unit always part of a fight that division is involved in, but removes it from the corps so it cannot participate in any battle another division within that corps may fight.

So when you click assign, the list that pops up are the corps assets that are eligible to be assigned to a division under that corps HQ. It's a trade off between strengthening a certain division at the cost of removing it as a corps support asset.

(in reply to JTP)

Post #: 6

RE: Support unit question - 12/14/2018 12:58:55 PM

Zug

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And for the original question, the answer is no, you do not need to assign them to have them used. When left as a corps asset there is a chance that support unit may be used in any battle fought by any division within the corps. When left as a corps asset the computer determines which (if any) support units will take part. The leader's initiative is one important factor in the calculation.

So the upshot is that leaving a support unit as a corps asset and not assigning it directly to a division means that support unit may take part in any battle fought by any division under the HQ, or it may not take part at all. Assigning it directly to division means it will always take part when that division fights but not in any battle fought by a sister division.

(in reply to Zug)

Post #: 7

RE: Support unit question - 12/15/2018 12:59:22 AM

JTP

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Joined: 1/24/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zug

And for the original question, the answer is no, you do not need to assign them to have them used. When left as a corps asset there is a chance that support unit may be used in any battle fought by any division within the corps. When left as a corps asset the computer determines which (if any) support units will take part. The leader's initiative is one important factor in the calculation.

So the upshot is that leaving a support unit as a corps asset and not assigning it directly to a division means that support unit may take part in any battle fought by any division under the HQ, or it may not take part at all. Assigning it directly to division means it will always take part when that division fights but not in any battle fought by a sister division.

Thanks ! I really appreciate you're taking the time.

(in reply to Zug)

Post #: 8

RE: Support unit question - 12/15/2018 6:43:02 AM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JTP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zug

And for the original question, the answer is no, you do not need to assign them to have them used. When left as a corps asset there is a chance that support unit may be used in any battle fought by any division within the corps. When left as a corps asset the computer determines which (if any) support units will take part. The leader's initiative is one important factor in the calculation.

So the upshot is that leaving a support unit as a corps asset and not assigning it directly to a division means that support unit may take part in any battle fought by any division under the HQ, or it may not take part at all. Assigning it directly to division means it will always take part when that division fights but not in any battle fought by a sister division.

Thanks ! I really appreciate you're taking the time.

Zug is correct except it only explains the German side. The Soviet do not have the same command structure, that is after the a few early turns and some small eceptions. They do not use Corp HQs and many of their on-map combat units cannot have support units directly attached (Section 7.5.2). E.g. To Divisions but on-map corps combat units can.

Two rules that apply to both sides.

Support units that are directly attached to on-map combat units will automatically be added to the battle. E.g. Axis Divisions, Soviet on-map corps.

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. HQs can only commit support units to combat units that are attached to the same HQ. The HQ unit must be
within five hexes of attached combat units and be able to trace an indeterminate path of friendly hexes, which can be in EZOC, to those same combat units in order to commit support units during combat. E.g. Axis Corps, Soviet Armies. Higher HQs may also commit support units if the follow the same rules, basically have a combat unit directly attached to them in the combat.

One last thing. Do not confuse the automatic attachment of support units to HQs (Section 7.7.3.2) with support unit commitment to combat.

(in reply to JTP)

Post #: 9

RE: Support unit question - 12/15/2018 11:18:14 AM

JTP

Posts: 85
Joined: 1/24/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JTP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zug

And for the original question, the answer is no, you do not need to assign them to have them used. When left as a corps asset there is a chance that support unit may be used in any battle fought by any division within the corps. When left as a corps asset the computer determines which (if any) support units will take part. The leader's initiative is one important factor in the calculation.

So the upshot is that leaving a support unit as a corps asset and not assigning it directly to a division means that support unit may take part in any battle fought by any division under the HQ, or it may not take part at all. Assigning it directly to division means it will always take part when that division fights but not in any battle fought by a sister division.

Thanks ! I really appreciate you're taking the time.

Zug is correct except it only explains the German side. The Soviet do not have the same command structure, that is after the a few early turns and some small eceptions. They do not use Corp HQs and many of their on-map combat units cannot have support units directly attached (Section 7.5.2). E.g. To Divisions but on-map corps combat units can.

Two rules that apply to both sides.

Support units that are directly attached to on-map combat units will automatically be added to the battle. E.g. Axis Divisions, Soviet on-map corps.

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. HQs can only commit support units to combat units that are attached to the same HQ. The HQ unit must be
within five hexes of attached combat units and be able to trace an indeterminate path of friendly hexes, which can be in EZOC, to those same combat units in order to commit support units during combat. E.g. Axis Corps, Soviet Armies. Higher HQs may also commit support units if the follow the same rules, basically have a combat unit directly attached to them in the combat.

One last thing. Do not confuse the automatic attachment of support units to HQs (Section 7.7.3.2) with support unit commitment to combat.

Thanks again ! Yours and Zug's explanation make it much clearer; I read the rules and just get confused sometimes.

(in reply to Chris21wen)

Post #: 10

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 6:55:32 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
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Hi, I understand that Support Units are abstracted. From the manual I read :

quote:

Support units are single purpose independent battalions, brigades and regiments of various types, to include artillery, howitzer, mortar,
rocket, anti-tank, anti-aircraft, ski, engineer, sapper, tank, tank destroyer, construction, and labor groups. With the exception of
construction battalions, which can be automatically detached to repair rail lines, support units will not appear on the map, but will be
attached to headquarters and certain combat units and will be listed in the detail window of the unit to which they are attached.

But where should I imagine they are physically positioned ? in the same hex than the HQ they are attached to ?? Can't visualise the thing ...

(in reply to JTP)

Post #: 11

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 9:31:30 AM

AlexSF

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They are in the 5 hex between the HQ and its subordinated on-map units.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)

Post #: 12

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 10:08:20 AM

nukkxx5058

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From: France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

They are in the 5 hex between the HQ and its subordinated on-map units.

Ah OK. To be more precise, you mean the 5 friendly hexes around the HQ I guess.

(in reply to AlexSF)

Post #: 13

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 11:05:04 AM

Beria

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I think they do actually me up to five hexes away in distance - not the five (or is it six) hexes around any hex that are one hex away.

(in reply to nukkxx5058)

Post #: 14

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 5:52:23 PM

therealevan

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From: Washington State
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Is there a way to find out what the difference is between different support units? For example, flak vs light flak? (Im guessing this might be covered in rulebook?)

(in reply to Beria)

Post #: 15

RE: Support unit question - 12/18/2018 6:33:13 PM

thedoctorking

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You can look at the unit's composition by clicking on the TOE button. That will tell you what elements it has in it. The way the combat system works is that elements are matched up against one another (randomly, I believe) and then if they are within range, they shoot. The battle starts at a certain range depending on terrain, fortification, weather, etc., and then you close range step by step. So units with long ranges get more shots and units that have high firepower vs soft targets or high armor penetration have better chances of doing harm to their targets. A hit can either have no effect, can disrupt or damage the target element, or destroy it. Damaged and destroyed elements then have their personnel either killed or injured (how they figure that out is beyond my pay grade) and then at the end of the battle - number of rounds determined by leadership/morale rolls, weather, terrain, ammo, etc. - the CV is recalculated (leaving out damaged/disrupted units) and if one side has a 2:1 advantage, it wins and controls the hex. The losers have to take morale checks to determine if they simply retreat, rout, or are shattered/surrender. Disrupted units come back to ready after the battle but there is increased fatigue.

(in reply to therealevan)

Post #: 16