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Production tech vs Industrialization

 
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Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 5:45:29 PM   
Pocus


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Status: offline 		I have looked at the relevant section of the manual, and in the in-game note, and I don't see why someone would want to invest in Production until Industrialization is maxed out...

Industrialization gives from 10% to 20% increase in MPP income. Production gives only 5% discount and only on the fraction of income used on units (admittedly a big part, but still, this is anyway only a part of the whole income).

So... What I'm missing here, there must be something!



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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 6:50:45 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Status: offline 		that is correct industrial good, production not so much

SU starts with a production chit (1939) which is in my opinion worth keeping

The Brit production chit I sell

I never invest in production

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 12/19/2018 7:20:17 PM >

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 7:23:45 PM   
elmo3

 

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Status: offline 		Good tip. Wish I had seen it sooner!

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 7:30:27 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Status: offline 		I disagree. Both are important as making more MMP and being able to buy stuff cheaper really can get things rolling. I will do Ind Tech first, if I have to choose, but I try and keep both of them active if I can.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 7:59:58 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Status: offline 		Don't take this the wrong way but against the AI there is room for error.

There are much more important research which will fill the budget. Its even below anti-tank which is at the bottom also. It is more important to the SU than naval research imho.

In the case of Britain you need to purchase 2500 pt of units to break even. It takes a long time to buy 2500 pts of units after production research is reached as Brits.


You can make a case for the SU & Germany but again there are many more important things to research, so its a low priority









< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 12/19/2018 8:04:40 PM >

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 8:03:46 PM   
Pocus


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Status: offline 		Thanks for the answers. I see you are fully awake now and full of wits, which I appreciate!

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 8:19:34 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Status: offline 		adult libations in 1/2 hr disregard everything after that







< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 12/21/2018 10:07:08 AM >

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/19/2018 10:57:51 PM   
Elessar2


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Status: offline 		IIRC convoy income is NOT subject to the tech bonus. Thus the UK gets relatively little out of the tech (perhaps the percentage can be modded?).

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/20/2018 10:34:25 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

IIRC convoy income is NOT subject to the tech bonus. Thus the UK gets relatively little out of the tech (perhaps the percentage can be modded?).




Thats why Industrial is 125 for Brits & 200 for SU, bigger benefit.

In my opinion Industrial the highest priority for SU, try to always have 2 chits.

Brits its further down in priority, I find I fill the 2000pt budget before I get to Industrial. Eventually research Industrial but not initially.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 12/20/2018 10:35:40 AM >

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/20/2018 4:01:50 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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Status: offline 		Convoy income from Majors will be affected by Industrial Technology, in the sense that if the US or India invest in it, thus increasing their income, this will indirectly increase the potential worth of their convoys to the UK.

While we're on the subject of convoys from Majors, don't forget that you can adjust the exact MPPs sent per turn. This can be very useful at times.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/20/2018 4:12:21 PM   
Xenocide

 

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Status: offline 		Production discounts apply to what?

I know they apply to new units and upgrades. Do they apply to reinforcing an existing unit?

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/21/2018 4:05:51 AM   
Pocus


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Status: offline 		How you adjust MPPs, I did not discover the option yet.

Bill, does it seem ok for you that production gives 5% whereas industrialization up to 20%

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/21/2018 5:02:41 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xenocide

Production discounts apply to what?

I know they apply to new units and upgrades. Do they apply to reinforcing an existing unit?


Yes, both new units and reinforcing existing ones become cheaper.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/21/2018 5:05:24 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

How you adjust MPPs, I did not discover the option yet.

Bill, does it seem ok for you that production gives 5% whereas industrialization up to 20%


The latter depends on the country, and the cost of the Production Technology is intended to be roughly in line with the worth of it to that Major. There will be some that will benefit from it more, e.g. Germany and the USSR, as they will be lots of units, and the latter will be replacing many too.

Whereas while the US will benefit from this, it is incentivized to invest in Industrial Technology and turn itself into a powerhouse. This will benefit the UK too, due to the larger convoy it will be sending to Britain.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/23/2018 12:05:35 AM   
Keenan

 

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Status: offline 		Two additional aspects to take into account for each specific Majors situation are the facts, that
a) Minor countries and occupied resources (?) do not benefit from Industrialization ("Since Minor countries cannot conduct their own research, and do not benefit from their Major’s Industrial Technology research successes, they will always have a default Industrial Modifier of 100%.") and
b) (afaik) Production tech does not affect Production and Repair of Minor countries units either.

So Industrialization is most favorable if you have a big home production base (or need to invest a lot in research/diplomacy) and Production Tech is most favorable as long as the respective Majors force pool is not yet maxed out for the important unit types or losses are high (so only few units from your Minors need to be/can be built/repaired).

Of course other aspects - especially the different factors (20/15/10 vs 5) always need to be factored in as well. Also the expected remaining length of the game can play a big role, if any investment is still advisable.






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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/23/2018 2:10:03 PM   
Pocus


Posts: 1185
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting, if that's true (I don't mean to be offensive, just that I would like the official gospel), then it is less straightforward than I thought. Still, 15% for Germany or 20% for the US makes them not hesitate much on Industrialization vs Production. For others countries, like USSR and the UK, I admit it is a tough choice with these new infos.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/23/2018 3:10:06 PM   
Dorky8

 

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Status: offline 		Industrial most important in all cases, no doubt about it. Industrial improves, troop, diplomacy & research capability, production well just troops. You have to pick one or the other usually early because you need to improve fighting capabilities.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/23/2018 7:13:02 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

Interesting, if that's true (I don't mean to be offensive, just that I would like the official gospel)


I think that between them, Keenan and Dorky8 have got it all right.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/23/2018 8:02:17 PM   
Dorky8

 

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Status: offline 		Should be a fairly easy mathematical calculation.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/24/2018 11:18:31 AM   
Keenan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Should be a fairly easy mathematical calculation.


I agree, the more you can predict, on what you will spend your points, the easier the math.

I think, usually Industrialization is the much safer bet most of the time but for some countries/strategies Production Tech might be on par.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/24/2018 3:57:26 PM   
Dorky8

 

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Status: offline 		I've always researched Industrial first but after this thread would like to see some more evidence. I'll research some of my games for comparisons.

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RE: Production tech vs Industrialization - 12/29/2018 6:03:39 PM   
room

 

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Status: offline 		It's minor but it might be interesting to have one country of your alliance rush production still (the ne that benefit the most from it and can afford) to give its major allies a tech bonus later when they can research it too (for example after you reach INF 2, INFW and other utilities warfare and other maxed out research).

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