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The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/16/2019 9:42:04 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
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Hi all. Yes, new guy. Yes, I'm expecting a "same old questions" response might be coming. But I have rooted around a bit, and learned by experience a lot before asking, I swear. There's just some mechanics I am worn out with trying to figure out.

1) When a constructor is given a build order it immediately heads to the spaceport to reload, which makes sense. Unfortunately, if the spaceport is deep in a gravity well (thanks Bacon) it then has to lumber it's big butt back out of the well before it can go build anything. I provided a starbase outside the gravity well, which is fully stocked with huge piles of strategic resources where they could load, but they ignore it. Is there some way to get them to load there, or is it just in their nature to go home and I have to deal with it?

2) Is there any way to get a defense fleet to pay attention to space monsters? My defense fleet doesn't respond to pirates in the system as fast as I would like, but as far as I can tell it doesn't respond to kaltors at all unless I order it manually.

Might be more later, but that's a start.

Post #: 1

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/16/2019 11:27:27 PM

Aeson

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

1) When a constructor is given a build order it immediately heads to the spaceport to reload, which makes sense. Unfortunately, if the spaceport is deep in a gravity well (thanks Bacon) it then has to lumber it's big butt back out of the well before it can go build anything. I provided a starbase outside the gravity well, which is fully stocked with huge piles of strategic resources where they could load, but they ignore it. Is there some way to get them to load there, or is it just in their nature to go home and I have to deal with it?

I might be mistaken, but my impression is that construction ships go to the nearest spaceport to where they were when ordered to build something. You could try moving them close to the spaceport you have outside the gravity well prior to ordering them to build your new mining station or whatever it is that you're trying to do.

quote:

2) Is there any way to get a defense fleet to pay attention to space monsters? My defense fleet doesn't respond to pirates in the system as fast as I would like, but as far as I can tell it doesn't respond to kaltors at all unless I order it manually.

It might be a stance issue; check and see if your military ships are set to 'Engage when Attacked' rather than 'Engage Nearby Targets' or 'Engage System Targets' in Options -> Empire Settings, and if they are then change 'Engage when Attacked' to one of the other options. Other than that, I don't know; I cannot recall ever seeing warships ignore space monsters in the same system as they are except when set to only engage things that attack them.

After you change the default stances in Empire Policies, you might need to issue new orders to your ships before their stance actually changes, or you can manually change an individual ship's stance with a button which if I recall correctly is in the lower right corner of the selection details panel.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 1/16/2019 11:29:15 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/16/2019 11:43:51 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
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I tried it with the constructor actually sitting at the Starbase. It still dove down the well. I'm thinking that either I'm missing something in the starbase to get it recognized as the same thing as a spaceport, or else construction ships just refuse to recognize spaceports entirely and are actually going to the colony to load up.

I'll check the empire settings. I've changed the fleet setting and the individual ship settings using the <,> key, but maybe when they are put in auto the empire settings are over riding it, and since I've never done anything with them no doubt they are defaulted to 'when attacked.' Thanks for the tip!

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Post #: 3

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 1:47:18 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
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I don't think star bases are treated the same as spaceports. The best I can recall, Construction ships will go to the nearest spaceport to load up supplies.

I haven't played with gravity wells yet. Does the well for the system you are working with extend beyond the outermost planet/moon where you could build a spaceport?

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RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 2:38:54 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
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A little bit, but improving technology will probably bring it inside the orbit eventually. That's my next thing to try I guess, since this starport approach seems to be hitting a wall with uncooperative construction ships.

EDIT: Well, that didn't work...can't build spaceports other than at a colony unless you are a pirate.

< Message edited by Timsup2nothin -- 1/17/2019 5:43:11 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 4:25:01 PM

bubb_tubbs

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/20/2018
From: Lindsay, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I don't think star bases are treated the same as spaceports. The best I can recall, Construction ships will go to the nearest spaceport to load up supplies.

I haven't played with gravity wells yet. Does the well for the system you are working with extend beyond the outermost planet/moon where you could build a spaceport?

The range of the well directly varies by ship size - larger ships will see the gravity well effect extend further out than smaller ones.

Being on the large size earlier in the game, constructors spend quite a bit of time at sunlight speeds until you get good enough tech to being the weight down. It's a fun mechanic since it makes techs like the Star Burner and efficient engines more valuable, and it incentivises designing the most efficient freighters you can for size/cargo/speed.

(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 6

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 6:05:39 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubb_tubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

I don't think star bases are treated the same as spaceports. The best I can recall, Construction ships will go to the nearest spaceport to load up supplies.

I haven't played with gravity wells yet. Does the well for the system you are working with extend beyond the outermost planet/moon where you could build a spaceport?

The range of the well directly varies by ship size - larger ships will see the gravity well effect extend further out than smaller ones.

Being on the large size earlier in the game, constructors spend quite a bit of time at sunlight speeds until you get good enough tech to being the weight down. It's a fun mechanic since it makes techs like the Star Burner and efficient engines more valuable, and it incentivises designing the most efficient freighters you can for size/cargo/speed.

They also make setting up defenses a lot more interesting. A defensive fleet that jumps down a well after some raiders has a much better chance of catching them before they get far enough out to jump away, but that fleet won't be available to respond to other raids until they climb out of the well themselves.

Roger Bacon clued me in on how to adjust the gravity well effect based on the hyperdrive equipment used, and I took his advice and made the basic warp bubble less gravity well intense. That makes early game development of nearby systems manageable, and produces another design decision since the hyperdrive goes back to the larger well to get a longer range, while the warp bubble gets you to close systems better but is slower and consumes too much fuel to go very far.

Meanwhile, my other question remains, and just gets worse. I tried the options/settings and put every default on "engage system targets." In the selection window for my fleet it says "Posture" says "Attack any targets" and at the top I have (No mission) (Engage system targets). I based the fleet at the station on the planet where I know the Kaltors are going to appear. The Kaltors appear...and eat the station. The fleet doesn't respond until the Kaltors move on to trying to eat them for dessert.

When I started playing I pretty much squashed everything that even looked like automation because I wanted to learn stuff, but now I'm trying to learn how to automate stuff. I'm thinking that maybe somewhere along the line I shut something down that I need to turn back on to make fleet automation even work...or at least make it work with space monsters. I haven't had any pirates happen through since I made the adjustments, so I'm not sure the fleet would respond to them either.

EDIT: Okay, this question is resolved...or perhaps more accurately, withdrawn. I have learned, through rigorous experimentation, that my understanding was flawed. I was watching for the fleet to change their mission. They don't. Ever. But they do respond to the threat. I was just accustomed to seeing "Attack giant Kaltor" as the mission, and expected to be able to see the automation assign the mission just like I would see it when I assigned it myself.

< Message edited by Timsup2nothin -- 1/17/2019 7:14:17 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 8:58:55 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
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Sooooo...

New question.

Asteroid mining stations. I find these now and again and can claim them, sometimes involving repairing them first. Can't build them. They never seem to actually mine anything. They do induce the private sector to haul resources to them for the "basic inventory" if left to their own devices, which seems wasteful and annoying. Claiming them seems worthwhile, since sometimes they reveal 'secret information.' But is there any point in keeping them, or should I just be scrapping them?

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RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 9:23:40 PM

Aeson

Posts: 784
Joined: 8/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Asteroid mining stations. I find these now and again and can claim them, sometimes involving repairing them first. Can't build them. They never seem to actually mine anything.

Mining stations over asteroids are functional and can be constructed by the player in the unmodded game, as long as they're built over an asteroid that has a resource deposit. My suspicion for why you're unable to build them would be that you have the option to hide asteroids enabled in the Expansion Planner or the Potential Mining Locations sidebar, if you're using those to queue up mining station construction missions. If you are instead selecting construction ships and ordering them to build mining stations or are selecting planets/moons/asteroids and using the buttons on the selection details panel to queue up a construction ship to build a mining station there and are finding yourself unable to do so with asteroids, then I would suspect that a mod has broken something.

As to whether or not to keep them, up to you. If they truly are not mining anything, then I don't see much point in keeping them unless you just want the system-wide sensor coverage that they provide. That said, unless the mod you're running changes things, the private sector pays mining station upkeep, and the private sector is usually rich enough that a handful of low-value or completely worthless mining stations aren't going to hurt it very much.

quote:

EDIT: Well, that didn't work...can't build spaceports other than at a colony unless you are a pirate.

It's likely to be difficult, but you can capture pirate spaceports.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 1/17/2019 9:26:21 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/17/2019 11:07:47 PM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
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Thanks! Turns out that my checking on building mines on asteroids amounted to "pick some random rock and see if I can." Going back and checking on a rock that actually has resources makes a difference. A quick facepalm and I move along.

FWIW not only is my recently claimed mining station apparently built on a rock with no resources, but my fearless private sector noticed that it was built to some archaic design that was marked for automatic retrofitting. You are right that they have more than sufficient cash, but as my stations languished about, complaining that they lacked resources for retrofitting that I needed done; I noticed this stream of freighters headed off into the boondocks to fix up their useless mining station and I was...irritated.

However, what's done is done and I did opt to keep it for the sensor coverage. In fact, since it doesn't mine anything anyway I'm considering a one off "mining platform" design with the bare minimum of mining equipment and a long range scanner. Let the private sector maintain that for me!

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RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/26/2019 8:11:39 PM

Timsup2nothin

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Joined: 1/14/2019
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New question.

I just colonized a planet where I had already built a mining platform. Will that mining platform speed up resource collection? Even if it doesn't I might keep it just for the firepower since I don't have to pay for it, or I might scrap it just for aesthetics. But obviously if it is still collecting resources I'll want to keep it.

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Post #: 11

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/26/2019 10:42:51 PM

Aeson

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My recollection is that mining stations over colonies don't mine any resources, though I could be mistaken.

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Post #: 12

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/26/2019 11:28:13 PM

bubb_tubbs

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/20/2018
From: Lindsay, Ontario
Status: offline

In my game, when you colonize, any mining station you own will disappear from the planet. I've never tried to build a station over an existing colony, though - does the game even allow it?

< Message edited by bubb_tubbs -- 1/26/2019 11:29:47 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/26/2019 11:30:43 PM

Retreat1970

Posts: 948
Joined: 11/6/2013
From: Wisconsin
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Mining stations disappear once colonized.

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RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 1/27/2019 4:38:22 AM

Timsup2nothin

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/14/2019
Status: offline

Well, that was a daft question. I actually hadn't noticed that the mining station was gone. Thanks everybody!

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RE: The very trite new guy with questions thread - 5/30/2019 9:59:44 AM

chaosegg

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/17/2012
From: The Bitter Hills
Status: offline

Colonization, for me, does seem to remove[-without consequence??] any station already at location; even pirate or other empire stuff goes 'poof' (a good way to 'peacefully' "remove stuff"*.
I have recently done the above more than once using my current, mostly-manual-game [of an updated version released just before Universe, so DW+RotS+Legends+Shadows],
and the colony ship lands, the station vanishes, and the colony is then providing the mining service I believe
(more as the population grows, similar to the construction speed increasing by population growth?).

*Tip 1: you can select a station you dislike and click the lower-left red x-hair button on the right [of the two] which will offer a bounty for whoever then destroys that target for you).

Tip 2: notice your homeworld construction speed will likely be the fastest place you can build anything,
which is useful for getting the early game race won on important things (colony ships in particular, since they are slow-to-build
and we are sometimes in a race to grab that nice continental, or rare resource spot before anyone else does).

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Post #: 16