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RE: expanded The Next War 1979

 
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RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/29/2019 1:48:01 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Mussey,

What I am seeing is that the French Army reorg took effect from 1 July 1979. What is start date for your scenario?

Thinking of two options here. One is that the French keep the old org because of the pressure of wartime, or, if you opt for the new structure, their readiness should be very poor because of organizational chaos.

I have a good URL from which to work up an OOB. From there, we'll have to figure out what the divisional subunits had (more or less) -- I thought you might have some issues with the French Army in terms of documentation.

One neat bit the URL brought out is a force called "Zone of Rhine Crossing" (ZFR in French) that is mostly engineer bridging units with territorial foot infantry as a security force.

Cheers

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 31
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/29/2019 2:57:31 PM   
Jo van der Pluym


Posts: 834
Joined: 10/28/2000
From: Valkenburg Lb, Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

I thought I was mostly finished with the OOB, then realized that the French Army during this time period was reorganized from x5 regular-sized divisions (which was never fully implemented) to x8 armored and x4 infantry/mech smaller divisions. These units are brigade size. Out of all the armies in this scenario, I have a much lower confidence level on my accuracy. Anyone with more info on this is welcome to comment. Check this out:







Here some info

The French had no AMX 13-105 light tanks they had only the AMX 13-90, AMX 13-75 and ome of them equiped with SS!0 or SS11 missles.
The AMX 13-105 was produced for the Dutch Army.
By the reoganization there was no 4th French Armored Div only the 4th French Airmobile of the FAR.

_____________________________

Greetings from the Netherlands

Jo van der Pluym
CrazyDutch

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 32
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/29/2019 7:41:30 PM   
MikeJ19


Posts: 3696
Joined: 1/29/2014
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

I'm really looking forward to trying this one out! Thanks for all the work.



_____________________________

Mike

Retired Gunner

(in reply to Jo van der Pluym)
Post #: 33
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/30/2019 7:47:58 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Mussey,

I'm working up an OOB first to see what the French had, and where it was, in 1979. Here is the start of it.

quote:

French Forces 1979

Berlin

..1 Bn Infantry VAB [46e RI]
..1 Bn Armor AMX-30 [11e RCh]
..1 Co Engineers [110e CG]

I Corps [at Metz]

..1 Bn Pluton Missiles [3e RA at Mailly]
..1 Bn Pluton Missiles [4e RA at Laon-Couvron] [Reserves]
..1 Bn Recon Drones [7e RA at Nevers]
..1 Bn HAWK SAM [402e RAA at Chalons-sur-Marne]
..1 Bn Engineers [34e RG at Epernay]
..1 Bn Helicopters [1er RHC at Phalsbourg] [10 SA341, 18 Alouette III w/SS-11, 10 SA341 w/HOT, 22 SA330 Puma]
..1 Bn Helicopters [3e RHC at Etain-Rouvres] [10 SA341, 10 SA341 w/HOT, 9 Alouette III w/SS-11, 18 SA330 Puma]
..1 Group Helicopters [11e GHL at Essey-les-Nancy] [10 SA341, 10 Alouette II]
..1 Bn Infantry VAB [1er RI at Sarrebourg]
..1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [12e RCh at Sedan]
..1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [4e RH at Besancon]
..1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [8e RH at Altkirch]
..1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [9e RH at Provins]
..1 Armd Div [4e DB at Nancy see notes]
..1 Armd Div [6e DB at Strasbourg see notes]
..1 Armd Div [7e DB at Besancon see notes]
..1 Armd Div [10e DB at Chalons-sur-Marne see notes]


Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 1/30/2019 7:50:25 AM >

(in reply to MikeJ19)
Post #: 34
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/31/2019 9:05:15 AM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey you guys: I really appreciate you guys working on this. It sounds like one of the better scenarios so far. I can't wait
to play it.


Thanks Larry, MikeJ19, Box of 9, Cathar, and all others for your encouragement.

When I started this project, my goal was to simply use the existing order of battle and to add a few others, and then to start playing. At this point, I've spent more time creating than actually playing. Certainly a labor of love.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 35
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/31/2019 9:07:56 AM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline 		Here some info

The French had no AMX 13-105 light tanks they had only the AMX 13-90, AMX 13-75 and ome of them equiped with SS!0 or SS11 missles.
The AMX 13-105 was produced for the Dutch Army.
By the reoganization there was no 4th French Armored Div only the 4th French Airmobile of the FAR.

_____________________________

Greetings from the Netherlands

Jo van der Pluym
CrazyDutch



Thanks for the tip. I'm not even certain if these vehicles belong in the 1979's armored brigades...

< Message edited by mussey -- 1/31/2019 9:10:08 AM >

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Jo van der Pluym)
Post #: 36
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/31/2019 9:12:40 AM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline 		Cathar, we may be looking at parts of the same source. Here are a few that got me to this point. This is from Fire and Fury website:







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by mussey -- 1/31/2019 9:15:51 AM >

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 37
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 1/31/2019 9:13:17 AM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline 		This source suggests the Orbat at 1977. With this organization the Corps are closer to resembling traditional Divisions with x1 to 4 Brigade-size armored units, and x4 Infantry/mech units unattached mainly located in western and southern France.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by mussey -- 1/31/2019 9:27:52 AM >

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 38
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 6:57:10 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Mussey,

You are correct about 1977. The reorganization (or part of it) was known as "Division Type 1977", so yes, at this point, the "new structure" is what should be shown in your scenario.

I have finished the OOB for the French Army of 1979 (a great French URL has helped a lot) and am working out a suggested TOAW equipment list for each type of unit. When I'm done, in a day or so, you can compare to what you've unearthed.

One thing that jumped out equipment-wise, is that the French Army was in the middle of an equipment transition at the end of the 1970s. You may wish to model the old vs new gear at 50:50 or so, with the units in Germany showing the new gear (I'd guess they had priority). Things like the VTT APC and the AMX-10 IFV, but also the infantry squad type: much of the French Army still had semiautomatic rifles at the time and the FAMAS assault rifle had only commenced fielding around 1978 or so. It will all make for an interesting variety of units, and the NATO player may find the I Corps in France has a bit less oomph in counter-attacking than hoped for.

Cheers

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 39
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 12:30:42 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Special French formation: ZFR (Rhine Crossing Zone). Three units of the sort shown below, named "ZFR 1", "ZFR 12", and "ZFR 16" (numbered for the bridging regiments); set proficiency IAW other units in scenario.

Cheers



< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/1/2019 12:32:52 PM >

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 40
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 12:43:30 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		French Forces 1979 - Berlin, 1st Army, and I Corps (suggested unit structures will follow the OOB)

Berlin [FFB]

1 Bn Infantry VAB [46e RI]
1 Bn Armor AMX-30 [11e RCh]
1 Co Engineers [110e CG]

1st Army [at Strasbourg]

1 Bn Airborne Cav [13e RDP at Dieuze] [SF-Long Range Recon]

I Corps [at Metz]

1 Bn Pluton Missiles [3e RA at Mailly] [Six Pluton SSM]
1 Bn Pluton Missiles [4e RA at Laon-Couvron] [Reserves]
1 Bn Recon Drones [7e RA at Nevers]
1 Bn HAWK SAM [402e RAA at Chalons-sur-Marne] [Sixteen HAWK launchers]
1 Bn Engineers [34e RG at Epernay]
1 Bn Helicopters [1er RHC at Phalsbourg] [10 SA341, 18 Alouette III w/SS-11, 10 SA341 w/HOT, 22 SA330 Puma]
1 Bn Helicopters [3e RHC at Etain-Rouvres] [10 SA341, 10 SA341 w/HOT, 9 Alouette III w/SS-11, 18 SA330 Puma]
1 Group Helicopters [11e GHL at Essey-les-Nancy] [10 SA341, 10 Alouette II]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [1er RI at Sarrebourg]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [12e RCh at Sedan]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [8e RH at Altkirch]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [9e RH at Provins]
1 Armd Div [4e DB at Nancy see notes]
1 Armd Div [6e DB at Strasbourg see notes]
1 Armd Div [7e DB at Besancon see notes]
1 Armd Div [10e DB at Chalons-sur-Marne see notes]

4e DB [at Nancy]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [30e GCh at Luneville]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [151e RI at Montigny-les-Metz]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 4 at Verdun]
1 Bn Armor [3e RC at Chenevieres - Saint-Clement]
1 Bn Armor [2e RCh at Verdun]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 4 at Montigny-les-Metz]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [8e RA at Commercy]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [6e RG at Angers]

6e DB [at Strasbourg]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [152e RI at Colmar]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [153e RI at Mutzig]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 6 at Bitche]
1 Bn Armor [4e RC at Bitche]
1 Bn Armor [2e RD at Hagenau]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 6 at Colmar]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [12e RA at Oberhoffen]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [9e RG at Neuf-Brisach]

7e DB [at Besancon]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [35e RI at Belfort]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [170e RI at Golbey]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 7 at Le Valdahon]
1 Bn Armor [1er RD at Lure]
1 Bn Armor [5e RD at Le Valdahon]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 7 at Golbey]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [1er RA at Montbeliard]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [19e RG at Besancon]

10e DB [at Chalons-sur-Marne]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [1er GCh at Reims]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [150e RI at Verdun]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 10 at Mourmelon]
1 Bn Armor [4e RD at Mourmelon]
1 Bn Armor [503d RCC at Mourmelon]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 10 at Verdun]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [40e RA at Suippes]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [3e RG at Charleville-Mezieres]

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 41
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 12:46:44 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		French Forces 1979 -- II Corps

II Corps [at Baden-Baden]

1 Bn Pluton Missiles [32e RA at Oberhoffen]
1 Bn Pluton Missiles [74e RA at Bourogne]
1 Bn Artillery Obsn [6e RA at Chaumont]
1 Bn Artillery [2e RA at Landau]
1 Bn Artillery [34e RA at Mullheim]
1 Bn Air Defense [51e RA at Wittlich]
1 Bn Air Defense [53e RA at Breisach]
1 Bn HAWK SAM [403e RAA at Chaumont]
1 Bn Engineers [4e RG at La Valbonne]
1 Bn Engineers [10e RG at Speyer]
1 Bn Helicopters [2e RHC at Friederichshafen] [10 SA341, 10 SA341 w/HOT, 18 Alouette III w/SS-11, 21 SA330 Puma]
1 Group Helicopters [12e GHL at Trier] [10 SA341]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [110e RI at Donaueschingen]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [3e RH at Pforzheim]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [1er RS at Speyer]
1 Armd Div [1re DB at Trier see notes]
1 Armd Div [3e DB at Freiburg see notes]
1 Armd Div [5e DB at Landau see notes]

1re DB [at Trier]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [8e GCh at Wittlich]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [16e GCh at Saarburg]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 1 at Sankt-Wendel]
1 Bn Armor [1er RC at Sankt-Wendel]
1 Bn Armor [6e RD at Saarburg]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 1 at Saarburg]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [9e RAMa at Trier]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [13e RG at Trier]

3e DB [at Freiburg]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [19e GCh at Villingen]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [42e RI at Offenburg]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 3 at Stetten]
1 Bn Armor [12e RC at Mullheim]
1 Bn Armor [3e RD at Stetten]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 3 at Villingen]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [11e RA at Offenburg]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [32e RG at Kehl]

5e DB [at Landau]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [2e GCh at Neustadt]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [24e GCh at Tubingen]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 5 at Tubingen]
1 Bn Armor [2e RC at Reutlingen]
1 Bn Armor [5e RC at Kaiserslautern]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 5 at Tubingen]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [73e RA at Reutlingen]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [11e RG at Rastatt]

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 42
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 12:49:56 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		French Forces 1979 -- III Corps and General HQ units

III Corps [at Saint-Germain-en-Laye]

1 Bn Artillery Obsn [16e RA at Chaumont] [assumed role, reserve unit]
1 Bn Air Defense [58e RA at Douai]
1 Bn HAWK SAM [401e RAA at Nimes]
1 Bn Engineers [31e RG at Castelsarrasin]
1 Bn Engineers [71e RG at Oissel]
1 Bn Helicopters [6e RHC at Margny-les-Compiegne] [10 SA341, 10 Alouette II w/SS-11, 10 SA330 Puma]
1 Group Helicopters [13e GHL at Les Mureaux] [8 SA341, 12 Alouette II]
1 Bn Armd Cav EBR [2e RH at Sourdun]
1 Armd Div [2e DB at Versailles see notes]
1 Inf Div [8e DI at Amiens see notes]
1 Inf Div [12e DI at Rouen see notes]
1 Inf Div [14e DI at Lyon see notes]
1 Inf Div [15e DI at Limoges see notes]

2e DB [at Versailles]

1 Bn Mech Infantry [5e RI at Beynes]
1 Bn Mech Infantry [RMT at Montlhery]
1 Co Armd Cav [EED 2 at Rambouillet]
1 Bn Armor [6e RC at Olivet]
1 Bn Armor [501e RCC at Rambouillet]
1 Co Antitank [CAC 2 at Beynes]
1 Bn Armd Artillery [1er RAMa at Montlhery]
1 Bn Armd Engineers [5e RG at Versailles]

8e DI [at Amiens]

1 Bn Infantry VAB [8e RI at Noyon]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [67e RI at Soissons]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [94e RI at Etain]
1 Bn Armd Cav [4e RH at Laon-Couvron]
1 Bn Artillery [41e RAMa at La Fere]
1 Co Engineers [58e CG at Oissel]

12e DI [at Rouen]

1 Bn Infantry VAB [12e RI at Rouen]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [43e RI at Lille]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [51e RI at Compiegne]
1 Bn Armd Cav [7e RCh at Arras]
1 Bn Artillery [3e RAMa at Vernon]
1 Co Engineers [62e CG at Oissel]

14e DI [at Lyon]

1 Bn Infantry VAB [75e RI at Valence]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [92e RI at Clermont-Ferrand]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [99e RI at Sathonay]
1 Bn Armd Cav [1er REC at Orange]
1 Bn Artillery [19e RA at Draguignan]
1 Co Engineers [64e CG at Avignon]

15e DI [at Limoges]

1 Bn Infantry VAB [57e RI at Souge]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [126e RI at Brive-la-Gaillard]
1 Bn Infantry VAB [22e RIMa at Albi]
1 Bn Armd Cav [5e RCh at Perigueux]
1 Bn Artillery [20e RA at Poitiers]
1 Co Engineers [65e CG at Castelsarrasin]

General Headquarters [EMAT]

9e DIMa [at Saint-Malo]

1 Bn Naval Inf [1er RIMa at Granville]
1 Bn Naval Inf [2e RIMa at Auvours]
1 Bn Naval Inf [3e RIMa at Vannes]
1 Bn Infantry [41e RI at Dineault]
1 Bn Armd Cav [RICM at Vannes]
1 Bn Artillery [11e RAMa at Dinan]
1 Co Engineers [59e CG at Angers]

11e DP [at Toulouse]

1 Bn Airborne Inf [1er RCP at Pau]
1 Bn Airborne Inf [9e RCP at Toulouse]
1 Bn Airborne Inf [2e REP at Calvi]
1 Bn SF [1er RPIMa at Bayonne]
1 Bn Airborne Inf [3e RPIMa at Carcassonne]
1 Bn Airborne Inf [6e RPIMa at Mont-de-Marson]
1 Bn Airborne Inf [8e RPIMa at Castres]
1 Bn Airborne Recon [1er RHP at Tarbes]
1 Bn Airborne Artillery [35e RAP at Tarbes]
1 Bn Airborne Eng [17e RGP at Montauban]

27e DM [at Grenoble]

1 Bn Mountain Inf [6e BCA at Varces]
1 Bn Mountain Inf [7e BCA at Bourg-Saint-Maurice]
1 Bn Mountain Inf [11e BCA at Barcelonnette]
1 Bn Mountain Inf [13e BCA at Chambery]
1 Bn Mountain Inf [27e BCA at Annecy]
1 Bn Mountain Inf [159e RIA at Briancon]
1 Bn Armd Cav [4e RCh at La Valbonne]
1 Bn Mountain Artillery [93e RAM at Varces]
1 Co Mountain Eng [77e CG at La Valbonne]

1 Bn Helicopters [5e RHC at Pau] [10 Alouette II, 10 Alouette III w/SS-11, 20 SA330 Puma] [support for 11e DP]

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 43
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 1:27:59 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		French Forces Berlin -- equipment



Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 44
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 1:46:35 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		This definition is a WAG. 3e RDP was a long-range recon battalion. Or maybe define it like U.S. ranger or SF units.

Sorry: This should be the 13e RDP, not the 3e RDP

Cheers



< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/1/2019 5:00:22 PM >

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 45
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 1:58:43 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Corps Engineer Regiment

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 46
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 3:12:11 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Corps stand-alone infantry regiment (battalion)

Cheers

Should actually be "Truck SS-11" but that equipment item has to be added by designer.



< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/1/2019 3:26:10 PM >

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 47
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 3:22:39 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Corps Cavalry Regiment (battalion)

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 48
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 3:51:15 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Armored division with old equipment, for the 4th, 6th, 7th, and 10th Divisions. Probably need to add trucks so supply flows well.

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 49
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:16:07 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Armored division with new equipment, for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th Divisions. Same truck comment applies as with other armored divisions.

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 50
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:25:00 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Corps artillery regiment (In II Corps).

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 51
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:30:21 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Corps Air Defense Regiment (Battalion)

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 52
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:37:09 PM   
pz501


Posts: 180
Joined: 10/1/2003
From: Southern Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Mussey,

I wonder if you'd be interested in another OOB that covers the same time period that I've been working on for the past 5-6 years for the John Tiller Modern Campaigns series? The one I have is/was done for "Danube Front '85" and backdates things to the time period 1976-1977. While the game scale is different (1 mile/hex) and the game system is too, all of the units for both sides are depicted for a Theater-wide confrontation. The OOB was done using Tiller's built in editor, but it can be read using applications like Notepad. Mine goes down to the company level, but everything is there up to the Army/Army Group level on both sides, along with TO&E variations, especially with the Soviets.

I'd rate what I've done for accuracy like this: USA 100%, UK 100%, Belgium/Netherlands 90%, West Germany 95%, Denmark 90%, Canada 95%, France 80%. For the Warsaw Pact I'd rate accuracy of the GSFG at 90-95%, and the rest of the Soviets at around 80%. The East Germans are about 95%, and the rest of the Pact at about 85%.

My interest in the time period comes from the fact that I was stationed in Germany at this time (3-33 Armor, 1st Brigade, 3rd Armored Division), and it's never been depicted much at all. The 1985+ period is better documented, and more popular in gaming circles.

I can email you a copy if you want, just let me know.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 53
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:47:20 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Infantry Division.

Cheers


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 54
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/1/2019 4:49:44 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Mussey,

I have not worked up equipment lists for the General HQ divisions. Not sure if you are including those in the scenario or not; let me know if you want them in the scenario. My guess is that they would have used on peripheral fronts.

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 55
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/2/2019 1:07:36 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

Here some info

The French had no AMX 13-105 light tanks they had only the AMX 13-90, AMX 13-75 and ome of them equiped with SS!0 or SS11 missles.
The AMX 13-105 was produced for the Dutch Army.
By the reoganization there was no 4th French Armored Div only the 4th French Airmobile of the FAR.

_____________________________

Greetings from the Netherlands

Jo van der Pluym
CrazyDutch



Thanks for the tip. I'm not even certain if these vehicles belong in the 1979's armored brigades...


Hi Mussey,

What I'm seeing is that quite a bit of old gear was present well into the 1980s -- even semi-automatic rifles, SS-11 missiles, etc. I think there should be some AMX-13 and AMX-13/SS-11 present in inventory in 1979.

Note the AMX-10RC armored car did not enter inventory until the 1980s; it was EBR's with 90mm gun until that point, with the smaller AML armored cars with forces in France. Likewise many of the older VTT IFV's still in service, although some of the AMX-10P IFV had begun to fielded (sources indicate that fielding was extended ordeal, much like the Bradley fielding in U.S. forces).

The standard squad AT rocket launcher was the 89mm LRAC. Penetration rating is 40cm. You may wish to create this entry if you're using a modified equipment file; the standard "AT+" rating is very weak compared to even Cold War AT rocket performance.

<NAME>Famas AT+ Squad</NAME>
<COUNTRY>France - 1970's</COUNTRY>
<EQUIP1>1</EQUIP1>
<EQUIP2>176</EQUIP2>
<AT>40</AT>
<AP>56</AP>
<AA>1</AA>
<DF>10</DF>
<ARTY_RNG>0</ARTY_RNG>
<EARLY_RNG>0</EARLY_RNG>
<SAM_RNG>0</SAM_RNG>
<NUKE>0</NUKE>
<VOL>999</VOL>
<WEIGHT>0</WEIGHT>
<SHELL_W>0</SHELL_W>
<ARMOR>1</ARMOR>
<DEFENDER>1</DEFENDER>
<FLAG0>4</FLAG0>
<FLAG1>2</FLAG1>
<FLAG2>0</FLAG2>
<FLAG3>0</FLAG3>
<FLAG4>0</FLAG4>
<FLAG5>1</FLAG5>
<FLAG6>32</FLAG6>
<FLAG7>8</FLAG7>

Cheers

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 56
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/2/2019 10:07:16 PM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pz501

Mussey,

I wonder if you'd be interested in another OOB that covers the same time period that I've been working on for the past 5-6 years for the John Tiller Modern Campaigns series? The one I have is/was done for "Danube Front '85" and backdates things to the time period 1976-1977. While the game scale is different (1 mile/hex) and the game system is too, all of the units for both sides are depicted for a Theater-wide confrontation. The OOB was done using Tiller's built in editor, but it can be read using applications like Notepad. Mine goes down to the company level, but everything is there up to the Army/Army Group level on both sides, along with TO&E variations, especially with the Soviets.

I'd rate what I've done for accuracy like this: USA 100%, UK 100%, Belgium/Netherlands 90%, West Germany 95%, Denmark 90%, Canada 95%, France 80%. For the Warsaw Pact I'd rate accuracy of the GSFG at 90-95%, and the rest of the Soviets at around 80%. The East Germans are about 95%, and the rest of the Pact at about 85%.

My interest in the time period comes from the fact that I was stationed in Germany at this time (3-33 Armor, 1st Brigade, 3rd Armored Division), and it's never been depicted much at all. The 1985+ period is better documented, and more popular in gaming circles.

I can email you a copy if you want, just let me know.


Please do so, that would be very be very helpful!

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to pz501)
Post #: 57
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/2/2019 10:15:04 PM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Armored division with new equipment, for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th Divisions. Same truck comment applies as with other armored divisions.

Cheers




Cathar, this is a great help for me. I'm surprised that I was close to what you found. I'll make the necessary changes shortly. Tremendous job!

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 58
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/2/2019 10:29:23 PM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline 		On to two more orbat issues:

1) In the original scenario, the West German Jager Divisions (2nd and 4th) are composed of Panzer and Grenadier brigades and the divisions were designated as such. However, I found that from 1974-1980 they were true Jager's. Does anyone know what the equipment would be? My guess is they might be closer to the Mountaineer Div during this time frame.(x2 Mtn Bdes, x1 PG bde).

2) The West German reserves (Territorial Command) is paramount, yet I've found very little in Orbats for the 1979 time period. One source lists it as more of a security force for behind the lines, and that it did not become a more structured reserve force until 1982. Is this true?

If anyone can point me in the right direction on these issues, I would be much obliged.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 59
RE: expanded The Next War 1979 - 2/2/2019 10:58:37 PM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Infantry Division.

Cheers




Cathar, this Infantry unit is really slimmed down. The x70 jeeps look suspicious? In game terms the jeep is a recon vehicle that greatly adds to recon %. Can you re-verify that? Was there any other APC's?

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 60
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