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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/22/2019 10:29:22 PM   
RangerJoe


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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		That is a very big difference!

_____________________________

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/23/2019 12:13:15 AM   
palioboy2

 

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Status: offline 		I know the redo is annoying but I think both the peanut gallery and yourself would have been disappointed if you rolled through a large chunk of China while Obverts troops marched around China trying to get back to a railhead and not being able to join the fight for weeks or more.

Good of you for offering and I'm glad you both decided to forge ahead.

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Post #: 3842
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/23/2019 1:13:05 AM   
Canoerebel


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TNNBT: The Allies take Tungchow, their first conquest in China. Erik didn't offer any opposition.

Tomorrow is going to be key. He'll know I'm going to land a ton of troops there, so a significant part of The Herd will be a few hexes from DS. This might be the time he pounces, especially with massed air attacks....but I think the set-up isn't optimal for him. DS might soak off nearly ever enemy air attack due to its position between most enemy airfields and Tungchow. So I'll sweat it but I'm fairly optimistic.

I'm going to land most engineers and base forces and about 1/3rd of the infantry. I'll hold the rest back so that I don't have all my eggs in one basket.

Reinforcing landings will also take place up the river.

No sign of KB. My guess is its in the South China SEa, from which it can pounce on RN DS or return quickly to TNNBT.





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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 2:44:59 AM   
Canoerebel


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TNNBT: No enemy interference today as Allied armor takes a small base two hexes NW of Tungchow, and as massed disembarkation of troops at Tungchow. The same thing will take place tomorrow. If tomorrow goes well, 90% of the army will be ashore.

Tungchow airfield went to 2.37 in one day and a lot more engineers ashore, so the pace should increase considerably.

I'm surprised Erik hasn't yet employed massed sweeps using his elite Ki-83s. That'll come soon and it'll pose a real threat. But his nearest airfields (Nanking and Shanghai) are subject to bombardment, so that may limit his ability a bit. Tomorrow, minesweepers will chekc out Shanghai and a solo DD will bombard to see what's up.

SEAC: Allied army is organizing for move west - armor is sprinting forward, paratroops are dropping (to modest effect) while many big infantry units are switching to Strat mode. The hope is that the armor/paratroops can seize bases to allow the infantry to rail forward. If Erik turns to make stands that becomes an issue, but I don't think he will short of Indochina.

Down at Georgetown, lots more troops come ashore under CAP by 225 LBA fighters. This is no real race, due to the road system, but the Japanese territory has been fragmented, making it difficult for Erik to move units. He can pull out detachments by sea or air, but getting the big ones to Singapore will be tough for him.

Overall, the May Offensive (East China Sea and SEAC) is off to a rousing start. It's hard to believe that about five turns ago I was leaning towards diverting to the tertiary objectives.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/24/2019 2:46:03 AM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 7:35:22 PM   
Canoerebel


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Erik is not the kind of player to startle or get a case of the yips. He's too experienced and too good. To the extent possible, however, I do want him to feel like the Allies are closing in on all sides. That was kind of the objective for this new turn, and things went pretty well.

Strategic Bombing: Allied 4EB engage in massed nighttime Manpower raid on Sapporo, seeking to eliminate the remaining industry. Total fires set 250k.

Smaller daytime raid targeted industry at Harbin inflicted modest damage.

The turn opened with an Allied DD sweeping mines at Shanghai and hitting one of them, and a USN sub sinking an xAK near Iriomote.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 7:42:28 PM   
Canoerebel


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Nanking: Trial bombardment by solo DD inflicts measurable damage to enemy airfield. Hey, if one DD is capable of this, what would a real TF do? Erik will be cautious about using this airfield.

My test bombardment of Shanghai didn't work, since the solo DD hit a mine. I'll try again after more minesweeping. Shanghai is the elephant in the room - Level 7 airfield. (But I was awfully glad it wasn't a Level 9 when I began planning TNNBT.)




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 7:49:21 PM   
Canoerebel


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Philippine Sea: A pair of USN DDs on patrol in the heart of the Philippine Sea find the replenishment TF that a sub reported near Iwo two days back.

These DDs were part of a big CL/DD force that left Midway a week ago and took station north of Marcus, testing detection and waiting for prey. It look like Erik got some detection yesterday, so I detached the CLs and a couple of DDs and sent them back to safer waters. These two DDs came forward, set to patrol and react five hexes.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 7:56:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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Bridge over the Yangtze: Erik sends fighters to sweep the hex where Allied troops severed the railroad to Shanghai. This is a good outcome because usually fighters on LRCAP perform poorly.

Erik has almost entirely stood down his air force. The debacle of his big attack about six turns back, combined with a bunch of smaller but equally futile sorties, apparently persuaded him to stand down, think through things, and come up wit a better way to approach the air war. Death Star makes things hard on him. His mighty air force (in terms of numbers and quality) and his massive network of airfields make things tough on me.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 8:29:45 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

5/14/45

Philippine Sea: A pair of USN DDs on patrol in the heart of the Philippine Sea find the replenishment TF that a sub reported near Iwo two days back.

These DDs were part of a big CL/DD force that left Midway a week ago and took station north of Marcus, testing detection and waiting for prey. It look like Erik got some detection yesterday, so I detached the CLs and a couple of DDs and sent them back to safer waters. These two DDs came forward, set to patrol and react five hexes.




Oooouch!!

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 8:35:40 PM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		A very nice DD action, that could slow down the KB and/or tie it to a refueling port.

If you bombard again at Shanghai, maybe include some DMS and/or stay further away from the base. Did the DD survive the mine?

Since you severed the railroad to Shanghai, I doubt if he would put air units there or any bases without the railway exit. It would leave them vulnerable to bombardments and the closing of the airfields.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 8:41:12 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Status: offline 		Good catch on the replenishment task force. A couple of DD's will handle pretty much anything he can spare for escort duty these days. Does he have other large convoys trying to skirt the new order?

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 8:52:25 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Yes, he has multiple convoys moving to and from the Home Islands and the DEI. My subs have claimed a few. Largely, though, he's using this window to attend to the still-open LOC. I can't spare much to shut it down right now - too many other missions of far greater importance, by my reckoning. But I'll do what I can until I feel free to do more.

An a sub put a TT into an AO near Iwo about two turns back. If KB was counting on that replenishment TF, its diminished considerly. He has lots of refueling stations in the DEI and Philippines, but Allied subs are fanning out now and covering many of them.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 9:04:51 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A very nice DD action, that could slow down the KB and/or tie it to a refueling port.

If you bombard again at Shanghai, maybe include some DMS and/or stay further away from the base. Did the DD survive the mine?

Since you severed the railroad to Shanghai, I doubt if he would put air units there or any bases without the railway exit. It would leave them vulnerable to bombardments and the closing of the airfields.


The DD did survive the mine.

I've had several small minesweeping TFs working Shanghai, including YMS and AM, without incident. IE, they haven't had trouble with shore guns. So I think Shanghai will be vulnerable to to bombardment attacks soon.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/24/2019 9:05:24 PM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 9:07:12 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Status: offline 		Regarding the railway interruptions/disruptions, I'll try to keep short what I've been retaining so far;

you CR accomplished a memorial feat in exposing all the badness in the railway system in game , which is that I can simply board 10-15 divisions or more, on one day notice, and convoy them, all together, hundreds of miles afar;

this is realistically nuts, or worst; impossible to be done even today;

luckily you exposed that and from now on every JFB (mainly) knows he cannot rely on this EXPLOITATION of the mechanics but make allowance for any contingency plan to protect the railway lines and not to rely on absurd mass rail transportation;

to the forumites (Obvert himself included, in his AAR) who argued that after 2-3 (sic) years a healthy Japan would have developed the Chinese, as best example, railway facilities and capabilities to such a level:

game's industrial model is not perfect, but still very good in this that Japan's industrial resources are like a blanket you cannot draw to one edge without uncovering the other, so if you produce trains you don't do airplanes, ships and guns;

moreover, sincerely, the upgrade and development of Chinese railway system (talking about thousands of miles) within the war timeframe, up or better barely close to the levels required by such pretenses by us JFBs, is historically an endeavor probably unreachable not even by the US even if it dedicated to it most of its resources;


I'd like to run a test; strat moving ALL of Manchurian army in one turn to the other end of China; If, as I suspect, every unit can be transported limited only by the kind of railway, and regardless of how many other units are employing the same railway, so here we are...

In War in the East this issue has been approached, in a way that a nation can benefit from a limited train capacity (calculated on the base of a number of realistic factors), and every unit rail moved detracting from it (according to its "weight" and distance run);

In War in the West they went a step further, I think, in creating a pool of train carriages and locomotives (I think), that could be targeted by the enemy;

some say the result of a railway interrupted by the enemy on the units moving through that track (passing to Move mode in the middle of nothing) is a bug that unjustly penalizes the player;

other say it's WAD, or at least a design compromise;

other say they practically don't care whether is WAD or a bug, it's a blessing by itself; from now on on the Japanese player the duty to be very careful how he protects and plan for the use of his internal railways, and of the AFB to do the maximum he can to sabotage and disrupt it;


well done CR;



(in reply to adarbrauner)
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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 9:49:01 PM   
RangerJoe


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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Not to mention the different gauges of the railways are not modeled in the game. To do that, it would have to have a pause at the places where the disparate gauges meet. You would also have to model the passenger cars, the freight cars and the flat bed cars as well. It does take awhile to load vehicles on a train and you also may not want them combat loaded in case of accidents. Especially with any electric trains and loaded tanks with antennas flying to ground out the overhead wires . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 9:49:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Thanks for your thoughts on that issue, Adar. A very complicated game with some surprises after all these years.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 9:52:18 PM   
Canoerebel


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TNNBT: A very busy but quiet day. The Allies have landed 90% of the army now (all but two divisions prepped for Chefoo that will probably land at Tungchow instead).

Erik is being very quiet. He's doing the Iwo Jima defense. Let the enemy land, let them get exposed, and then counterattack. But getting this army ashore had promised to be a massively complicated, messy, costly op. I'm very thankful it didn't turn out that way. My units are shaking out and preparing to engage now. The army is strong, experienced, well lead, well supplied and ready to find the enemy armies.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/24/2019 10:49:23 PM   
RangerJoe


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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Even if he has more AV in his units, they have less firepower. You also probably have more armor. The only advantage that he might have is artillery units with bigger guns. I see a lot of points to be harvested - both by bombing his units and sweeping any CAP aside, then destroying the units. But then again, he does not have much of a choice unless he gives up territory. I think that he is trying to buy time until his Southern Army can extricate itself from the danger that it is in.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 5:32:17 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Not to mention the different gauges of the railways are not modeled in the game. To do that, it would have to have a pause at the places where the disparate gauges meet. You would also have to model the passenger cars, the freight cars and the flat bed cars as well. It does take awhile to load vehicles on a train and you also may not want them combat loaded in case of accidents. Especially with any electric trains and loaded tanks with antennas flying to ground out the overhead wires . . .


A model of an electric train like those used in China 1942.



Loading could be simulated as well.

gauges, what the Chinese and Japanese Gauges, small, large who knows!?







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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 7:10:13 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		A problem with all this talk about cutting the rail with your paras, is that the bridge didnt exist until 1968 and the train carriages were ferried "car by car"

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 9:49:45 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Status: offline 		Y'all pay too much attention to the real-life Japanese RR limitations but do not consider Allied limitations, like those thousands of ships coming into a river and unloading in a couple days on an undeveloped river bank with no artillery harassment from across the river.
It all balances out, every side has its advantages vs real life

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 10:18:35 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Y'all pay too much attention to the real-life Japanese RR limitations but do not consider Allied limitations, like those thousands of ships coming into a river and unloading in a couple days on an undeveloped river bank with no artillery harassment from across the river.
It all balances out, every side has its advantages vs real life

True as well...but they are not thousands, and the majority are landing crafts, the river is not a small stream but 2-3 miles wide and navigable even by the Queen Elizabeth, and regarding the artillery shelling, who says there's artillery there, and that it did not fire?

US-Allied Nations came up the Yangtze river with a show of might;

they for sure aim to impress the Chinese and have post-war concerns as well, no doubt;

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 2/25/2019 10:30:34 AM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 10:21:19 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Not to mention the different gauges of the railways are not modeled in the game. To do that, it would have to have a pause at the places where the disparate gauges meet. You would also have to model the passenger cars, the freight cars and the flat bed cars as well. It does take awhile to load vehicles on a train and you also may not want them combat loaded in case of accidents. Especially with any electric trains and loaded tanks with antennas flying to ground out the overhead wires . . .



Thank you for your comment;

every simulation and abstraction is good as far as it is realistically plausible, and no further than that;

in this respect, the over capability of railway transportation in the game isn't good in certain situation, as here, and could be exploited;
the supposed bug, whether a real bug or not irrelevant, comes to nicely and delightfully offset that behavior.


< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 2/25/2019 10:27:25 AM >

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 2:23:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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SEAC: Japanese defenses here have collapsed and the Allied army is just moving out into Cambodia, pointing towards Indochina. This is the successful culmination, to my way of thinking, of an unusual strategy.

For nearly a year, the Allies and Japanese were in an MLR standoff around Rangoon, Pegu, etc. That suited me, as the alternative was a long, difficult campaign in which Erik would have the advantage of his army being dug-in. I didn't want to fight at a disadvantage, where my losses would be higher, giving him a Victory Points advantage. I wanted him to maintain his army as far forward as possible. Then, when the Allies landed in China, or as they threatened two, Erik would face a tough choice of retiring precipitately and in disarray or having his army cut off.

And that finally happened. Now, with next to no battle losses, the Allied army is moving forward to seize vast territory it otherwise would've bled for. In turn, the Japanese will have to cobble together defensive positions. And if those positions look too strong, I can load my army aboard ship and go around Erik's new MLRs.

Erik is so experienced and good that he'll get his guys out of harm's way and into strong positions, but many advantages are now with the Allies.





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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 2:38:09 PM   
Canoerebel


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Malaya: Shortly after Erik lost nearly 1000 aircraft in attacks against Death Star, he seemingly withdrew KB from the East China Sea Theater. Where did he send it and why?

The two most obvious and dangerous deployments would be (1) close to the Home Islands, from where it can spearhead an attack on Death Star in conjunction with LBA, or (2) in the South China Sea, to ambush RN DS or to keep it from venturing into that sea.

Other possibilities: raiding shipping in the Aleutians or around Hawaii.

Remote possibility: heading some kind of Battle of the Bulge attack into SWPac or SoPac or Oz.

Right now, the possibility of an ambush in the South China Sea is the biggest threat.




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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 4:49:41 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Status: offline 		"The main Allied army ...is in Bangkok, nearly all in strat..."

Well he could pay you back by severing the railway in points with air drops forcing your units to unload in the middle of nothing...if he absorbed the tactic..

That would be very nice to see

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3866
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 5:01:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		He could, but I won't let him. :)

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 5:40:10 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
"The main Allied army ...is in Bangkok, nearly all in strat..."

Well he could pay you back by severing the railway in points with air drops forcing your units to unload in the middle of nothing...if he absorbed the tactic..

That would be very nice to see

You can only airdrop onto bases in WITP. And CR has enough troops to have ample garrison against paras at every such base.

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RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 5:41:13 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Y'all pay too much attention to the real-life Japanese RR limitations but do not consider Allied limitations, like those thousands of ships coming into a river and unloading in a couple days on an undeveloped river bank with no artillery harassment from across the river.
It all balances out, every side has its advantages vs real life

True as well...but they are not thousands, and the majority are landing crafts, the river is not a small stream but 2-3 miles wide and navigable even by the Queen Elizabeth, and regarding the artillery shelling, who says there's artillery there, and that it did not fire?

US-Allied Nations came up the Yangtze river with a show of might;

they for sure aim to impress the Chinese and have post-war concerns as well, no doubt;


Hundreds of multiple-thousands-of-tons displacement ships, then.

The point is that, if artillery were present there, it wouldn't be firing because of how the game works.

And the real big point is just that the game engine is an abstraction and whinging about this or that ahistorical bit of it is simply not productive.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 2/25/2019 8:09:19 PM >

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Post #: 3869
RE: Notes from a Small Island - 2/25/2019 7:13:00 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		True, the ocean, seas, and rivers have no stacking limits per hex. If you want to put in minimum ship distances and operating room for carrier operations, the complexity would make it a very much larger program.

The electric type train (I don't know if they had them there or not) that I referred to would have overhead wires. An M-60 tank, loaded with live combat rounds cross such tracks in West Germany (the FRG) with its antenna up. The resulting electrical shock only caused one tank round's propellant to ignite. The resulting explosion blew the vehicle commander, the loader, and the driver out of the vehicle. The gunner, who has no hatch, stayed inside the tank. They were injured but survived. Dumb A$% Tanker (DATs) leaving the antenna up . . .

Of course, I did not get to see the result of the stupid tankers when they fired a 105mm gun on an M1 tank with two feet of packed dirt at the end of the gun tube . . .

Now, if the Japanese are trying to build up a fortified area in Southern China and Indochina, the goal would be to let them wither on the vine. Base attacks targeting airfields and ports to destroy supplies as well as city attacks against Resource and Industry are needed. If the AAA is not there nor the Japanese fighter force, you should not lose too much doing so. Once they have withered, then it should be easier to harvest them . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lokasenna)
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